- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemmy.ml
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The US’ continued ability to veto and clear abuse of security council veto power is inevitably going to result in the dissolution of the UN at some point. The audacity, the patronizing tone, the clear full throated support from the entire US government for genocide, it’s going to be remembered in years and decades to come.
Unlikely. China and the rest of the global south are very attached to the UN and its principles. I would say reform is more likely than its dissolution. Reforming the security council for one (an excellent way of doing this would be removing France and GB which have no reason for being there and are really just extra votes for the US, giving their seats to Brazil and India), and secondly transferring more of its powers to the general assembly to prevent constant deadlock due to veto. Another thing that i think will become a necessity sooner or later is to expel “Israel” from the UN.
If by reform you mean re-form(ation) then I would agree. As in they all leave the UN that exists now and make a new world government body with the same basic purpose but where the US is invited to join as purely an equal and no one holds absolute veto power or the ability to allow genocides.
I think trying to do the liberal type of reform would be just as effective as police reform is in the US… completely ineffective.
That would probably be the ideal solution but i don’t think it’s going to happen and i don’t think any country, including Russia and China, want to go in that direction.
At the moment it is precisely the countries of the global south that are most in favor of the UN playing a larger role and its charter being respected while the imperial core are the ones who are constantly undermining the UN, bypassing or ignoring it when they can’t manipulate it.
So while i agree with you i am pointing out that China and the rest of the world outside of the empire and its vassals do not see things this way yet, and if anything they are likely to double down on the UN as the power of the West declines and multipolarity accelerates.
As for “reform” that can mean a lot of things and potentially it is conceivable that one form of reform could be to abolish the existence of permanent security council seats altogether. This would go a long way toward taking away the West’s ability to veto the decisions of a majority of the world. And it is precisely for this reason that they will never allow it.
Yes, your final statement is basically my point. I think we agree.
The rest of the world wants the UN to exist and to live up to its ideals. The US is and always has been corrupting, sidestepping, abusing, whatever other words people want, the procedures and has basically used the UN only as a laundering mechanism to “legalize” wars and genocides. It has no intention of letting the UN be actually used to democratically vote to force an end to what Israel (as the current example) is doing. That’s why I said it would be dissolved because it’s going to come to a point where it’s the entire world minus US and its close allies demanding that the US not have that permanent seat and veto power. Since obviously the US won’t willingly give into such a demand (because dipshits are in charge) it’s gonna force either the other members to back down and accept continued US dominance or more likely I think they just recreate a new UN without those types of positions. The US will of course cry and claim “wow they left! Not us!” And then proceed to ignore anything the new body says. If this happens, and how does it not??? unless the US randomly sees the writing on the wall of absolute destruction vs a step down in power which is nearly 0% chance of happening, it’s obviously gonna be very… not good for the world. In the short term anyway. Long term it’s absolutely necessary that an actually equal UN type body exist otherwise it’s always going to devolve into what is happening now.
I also think we agree completely on this. Just to be clear: i was not stating what I think should happen but rather what i believe that China and other important states outside of the imperial core (because it’s their opinion on this that matters, not mine) think about the UN and what should happen to it. And from what i have seen and heard from them it seems that they very much believe in the UN, and that they want it to be empowered and reformed to be a more equitable and less dysfunctional institution.
As to how this will be achieved given what you explained perfectly about what an obstacle that the imperial core represents to any sort of democratic reform of the UN, that remains to be seen. It all depends on how much US global power can be weakened and if multipolarity advances to such a point that the US itself has no choice but to give in to the mounting pressure from the rest of the world. I don’t think that China will want to resort to such drastic moves as establishing a new UN. China believes that time is on its side and they’re probably right.
Now if it was up to me i’d just wash my hands of the UN and revive the Comintern…
Yeah I understood what you were saying, don’t worry. Perhaps I should share in the Chinese government’s optimism. Unfortunately these past three weeks have eroded any sort of optimism I might have had brewing for the west in coming decades.
Why is the ‘Against’ side so random? Austria, Czechia, Hungary, Croatia, Guatemala, Paraguay, Papaua New Guinea, and Fiji.
I don’t know the exact politics behind why we have seen this particular configuration of European states aligning with the US on this, but for the various small global south countries that do it’s usually a case of them not being able to resist US pressure. It is an open secret that threats, blackmail and bribery are employed regularly by the US to get smaller states to go along with them at the UN. Very often you will see this especially in the case of tiny island nations in the Caribbean and the Pacific, where the price of buying a UN vote is very low for the US.
I imagine the European countries listed are pledging unwavering support for Israel because of their involvement in WW2. The other ones I have no idea.
$$$$$
Rare French W
Macron started with the “do exactly what the US does” at the very start but it looks like he kinda freaked out and now he is sending relief to Gaza. It’s especially impressive to witness because he never backs off on anything in his neoliberal anti-worker agenda, but it looks like, as a some people start to notice, that he is actually afraid of the segregated ethnic minorities of France who are absolute hardliners on Palestine
etcThese are the countries that will cry bully for apologies when our time comes.
Expected
