- cross-posted to:
- digitslfreedom@exploding-heads.com
- cross-posted to:
- digitslfreedom@exploding-heads.com
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Google took its time stepping up, but it’s better late than never
So Apple completely fails to give any kind of fuck that some people don’t use their products but might be affected by them… and Google is the bad guy for not being timely enough to account for Apples douchebaggery? I mean, I’m no google fanboy, but jesus christ that’s some shitty logic.
Apple created an app to detect airtags for Android but…
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It takes 2 full minutes to do a scan (only manual scans are supported)
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For some reason you need to wait a timer of TEN FUCKING MINUTES before make the tracker beep (close the app and you need to wait the ten minutes again)
It’s the most minimum viable product that they could ship, I think the long waits are all artificial because there’s no way that someone actually waits all that time each time that wants to check if he’s stalked by an airtag. It’s clearly designed for compliance “see? We made a detection app for Android users” and not for being actually used
Any form of Android compatibility must be maximally enshittified to encourage switching – see iMessage. Unless of course it generates revenue for Apple – see Apple Music. Not being stalked/murdered using Air Tags does not generate revenue for Apple: next time buy an iPhone.
Including the most basic task of plugging in an Android phone to access files on MacOS. It just works on Linux or Windows, but with MacOS I had to go the extra step of having to download and install Android File Transfer. And then wasn’t even able to preview pics from the phone storage and had to move the files to the PC.
Apple probably wants people to go I should get an iPhone. But, given the experience of how it just works on Windows and Linux my thought was wow Apple is shit at compatability with everything that isn’t Apple.
Most people aren’t plugging their phones into their computers. I’m an IT guy and I’ve never plugged my iPhones into my pc, nor the last 5+ android phones.
Okay. Good for you. But that wasn’t my complaint. It’s that it just works on Windows or Linux.
My point is that plugging your iPhone into a computer isn’t something most people do so it’s not prioritised as being important.
Okay? I wasn’t asking about other people, but expressing something I expected to be a basic function. And it was an Android phone I was talking about not an iPhone.
The comment chain talking was discussing how Apple will make things slightly less functional for products that aren’t Apple. Not an inquiry about how others use Apple products.
Google do it to some as well so they’re just playing the same game.
See Picture in Picture - it’s an OS level greater yet google went out of their way to disable it for YouTube so they could sell it to you via YouTube premium.
The waits are by design. Without them, it would be trivial to find an airtag in something you are going to steal and remove it.
As long as the protocol on the device allows it you can just mod the app to do it quicker
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Google took its time stepping up, but it’s better late than never
And Google is postponing the launch of their trackers compatible with Google Find My network (Chipolo Point, PebbleBee) because Apple didn’t get around with adding stalking detection for these in time.
In this case if someone needs to step up and get their shit together, it’s Apple.
Google has already confirmed that Unknown Tracker Alerts is only compatible with AirTags for the time being, but didn’t specify why
It would seem like the “why” is pretty obvious. Most active iPhones now have AirTag tracking installed on them. That’s not the case for trackers like Tile.
That means Apple has the biggest tracking network right now. It dwarfs the others. FindMy network devices should be the clear priority. They’re more precise, encounter fewer dead zones, and in other words, are likely a stalker’s preferred tracker.
Don’t you have it backwards? It’s not the phones, its the trackers.
And the obvious reason is apple and google built it, so of course Tile is behind. If google already had trackers, that sentence would say AirTags and googleTags*
Tile is not as useful if you are trying to stalk someone because its network is much, much smaller. Therefore it is less dangerous than the Airtags.
Tile uses both phones with the Tile app instand and all Amazon Alexa speakers are part of the Amazon Sidewalk network, which also detects and reports Tile tags.
That is also likely a factor. There are more AirTags in the wild than Tiles.
That said, my point is that AirTags present more risk because they’re a better product. And they’re a better product because of the substantially bigger network.
So you’re restating the claim the article made with supposing it’s because it’s bigger and just being done first. But there’s still technically has the capability of tracking others. And I wouldn’t say being the product of choice of stalkers necessarily makes it a better product.
Edit: it’s also odd that you went out of the way to extol the product when you’re just agreeing with the conclusion I made as well. We get it. You love Apple.
Not fanboying, just saying why they are the biggest security threat, and therefore the right tracker to prioritize. That’s all.
When Google inevitably rolls out a competing tracker and client platform, they will have the dominant network after a few years. Apple will have to follow Google’s lead and build defensive tools for trackers on Google’s massive platform.
I mean, you went out of your way in multiple comments to not just say “Apple has a larger network so is more dangerous.” In fact you didn’t even say that. You had to let other people infer it from you repeatedly saying how great AirTags are and how superior they are.
Like, you’re not wrong that it’s a larger network. But you could have just said that. You’re obviously a fan of Apple and preaching just a bit here.
AirTags are the better tracker. A person isn’t an apple fan for accurately recognizing that.
But they are when the question didn’t ask what’s better.
You mean AITags?
Think they’re referring to Tile tags.
I am as well. AirTags have outsold Tile significantly, and they’re waaaay more accurate because of the much bigger network.
And it’s pretty logical why. I lose my stuff a lot and all though I have an android, still bought airtags and use an old iphone. Why? Cause it is the only cheap option that tracks farther than bluetooth range, which is quite handy if I lose something on the train. Google should syep up and make a similiar system, it is the only way.
I fail to understand where the “why” comes in. You gave some disparate conclusions. yes airtag is installed on iPhone and tile isn’t. So what? Yes, airtags is a big network. Again, I repeat, so what? Are you saying they did the largest network first? Whatever it is, you forgot to state the obvious part of your claim. It definitely isn’t obvious.
I think the thing is that, in order to have a successful and reliable Tile network, you need as much people as possible to install the Tile app so their phones can communicate with their trackers.
Whereas with Find My, you have everybody’s Apple devices being part of the network without them doing anything, their devices just do it, without intervention from other users. That’s a massive advantage for Apple’s offering.
On similar note, if Google comes up with something similar where they can leverage all of the Android devices out there, it’d be an enormous network.
You get.
Realistically, if that rumored Google / Nest tracking platform launches and slowly makes its way onto every active Android phone, Google will have the world’s largest BT tracker network, and Google’s platform will be the biggest stalker threat. But right now, AirTags are at the top of the stalker risk pile.
Sure, Google could currently watch out for Tiles and the other odd balls, but those products are likely to quickly fizzle out unless they get on to Apple current and Google’s upcoming platforms. Also, those products are inaccurate and kind of suck.
I wouldn’t compare the opportunity for android and google to be the same as with ios and apple. On apple devices you cannot opt out (this is what I heard). On android you will be able to most certainly (sooner or later).
My point is that AirTags are more dangerous from a stalking perspective compaired to Tiles. AirTags provide much more precise tracking data than a product like Tile. And they provide more precise data because of the much bigger client network.
I can’t find it on Android 12
It is following the usual Google release schedule “USA first, fuck the rest of the world”?
Also, is it possible to dismiss warnings like “I know, that’s mine”?
Edit: after a reboot I got the option in settings
I think this is a rare time that Google remembers the rest of the world exists. In here in Hungary, android 13, and the setting was available and was already on.
I don’t have it, Germany, on Android 12.
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Nevermind, showed up after a restart, so I guess it was just waiting to install the relevant google service update.Cool, I just rebooted and now I have it too, thanks
I have it, and I’m not in the US.
Been using this open source app for a while now. AirGuard
Seems to be pretty good, it found my tiles I have. Not bad!
I got an alert yesterday when I traveled by Bus. I see false positives scaring people using public transport.
Shouldn’t really happen because it only alerts for Airtags that are not with their owner. Then again, they only just released the ability to share an Airtag among multiple iPhone users, so false positives in public transport could be shared Airtags that are with people who haven’t set up that feature yet.
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That is not my understanding. The description for the manual scan specifically mentions trackers “that are separated from their owners” A colleague and I only found this sentence after having tried it for quite some time with an Airtag on his keyring. He then turned on airplane mode on his iPhone and my Pixel immediately found the Airtag. (We couldn’t make it ring tho, which was offered to me)
So I still believe the case you are describing is Airtags not with their owners. Maybe kids with Airtags connected to their parents’ phones. And like I said, the new feature where multiple people can connect to one Airtag might alleviate (not entirely fix obviously) that issue.
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AirTag sharing is in iOS 17 which isn’t released yet
Then my colleague probably has the beta because he could activate the feature but not add anybody to his Airtag which makes sense when they’re still on stable.
Didn’t need to set up anything, it was on and worked by default.
This is great! My phone doesn’t get updates very often, but this feature is already available and was turned on by default. (Moto G31)
Yep, it was enabled by default on my Pixel 6 Pro, too. Glad to see that it’s on by default, and not something that only a savvy user would ever find to enable on their own.
This is fantastic
Pixel 4xl. Don’t have it.
Your Google Play Services might not have updated yet.
Restarted my phone, but s21u in Australia - can’t find the setting. I’m updated on everything on gplay and sappstore so… 🤷🏻♀️
I thought there was already an app for this? Good that it’s a default part of Android now though
There’s AirGuard. A FOSS app that detects more than AirTags.
Yea but now it’ll be turned on by default on newer androids
I was waiting for Google tags to put one in my bike and car as an andi-theft measure instead of paying for GPS services (for my car only). But I see that it will soon be completely unusable for such a use case…
available on Samsung devices running OneUI 5.1.1, like the Galaxy Z Fold 5, but not those running OneUI 5.1 like the Galaxy S23
I have the setting on Galaxy A34 running latest stable firmware with OneUI 5.1, but it is called “notifications for unknown bluetooth trackers”, slightly different from the post.
Why should I use my battery and my electricity bill to fix an Apples issue?
Apple has to address the issue with they money. If they can’t fix it as people are using the product correctly (tracking), they shut it down as a temporary or permanently solution.
I’m not sure what you’re expecting Apple to do or why you think they’d want to just shut something down entirely because some people misuse it. Misuse applies to nearly everything.
Im expecting nothing coming from them. They don’t care about privacy and personal datas. Otherwise, they would have fixed it.
The misuse was clear from the beginning. They knew about this type of misuse. But, they make money on this service and this matters to them.
We come back to the regulation problem. We need more regulations on these topics.
How exactly do you expect this to get regulated?
Using smart tags to track things is the intended use case. Exactly what they are meant for. That someone can toss one in another person’s bag to stalk them is a case of someone misusing the technology, not an issue with the tech itself. And this tech is not Apple exclusive, it just makes better headlines.
There’s no way to algorithmically detect when it’s being used that way instead of to track something a user has legitimate reason to track.
We don’t regulate pens just because you can stab someone in the eye with one, we regulate and build laws against physical assault.
I expect this will end up in a similar way, laws against stalking updated to cover the use of smart tags if they aren’t covered already
Also, regarding Apple’s “responsibility”: Do we hold Dell responsible when someone uses a computer they built to commit cybercrime? Do we hold the manufacturer of kitchen knives responsible when they’re used in a domestic homicide, claiming that they need to do something to prevent knives from being used in stabbings or cease selling knives until they can?
To be clear, fuck Apple and all their walled garden anti-consumer bullshit they pull. Terrible company.
That said, there are absolutely cases where an argument can be made that a manufacturer or creator of tech has responsibilty in regards to how it is used or misused but this isn’t one of them.
I get your points although some of the examples given are not really comparable. What I am concerned with, is that with apple you have a network of millions of devices reporting to you. And that’s the issue, it was sold as “this is great, everyone helps each other, no need to be critical about privacy here”. These narratives are dangerous and we should stop and retreat if they blow up in our faces…
They are responsible, as this usage is clearly here by default and by design. This isn’t the case with a pen or a computer. A tag has just one purpose, tracking, not multiple like a computer. This is a huge difference. When you come to privacy of a human, you must be precocious.
You can regulate it. It has not to be used as a stalking device by design. It still allows them on the market with this restriction. The second is to opt out by default from the system. People have to manually opt in in the settings, with a mandatory pop-up explaining the risk. It reduces the number of phone able to send back the location. Another regulation could stipulate the ban at the OS level from the functionality and make the download of an app mandatory.
All of these examples of regulation protect the basic citizen from the stalking capabilities, but don’t ban the product itself. It mitigates the risks. It’s good for the company and good for the citizen privacy.
I guess it’s up to you, but since the problem is out there (and they’re not even the first to create such devices), it’s a bit like door locks. You use them because you want to be more protected.
They’re not going to do that.
Tapping the AirTag icon on the screen will bring up information about the tracker in question — including a button to make it Play sound to help you track down its exact location.
This doesn’t seem like a good thing to have the ability to do? You can just click search and then force any AirTag that you find to play a noise?
I think i get what you’re stabbing at. This could be used as a nuisance for everyday normal air tag users. Pranks in class or wherever… in the end, it’s the few stalkers that ruined air tags for everyone.
Bingo.
Reading some other comments it appears that maybe you can only do this to airtags that aren’t currently “with” the owner at the time, but I can’t confirm.
AirGuard, the android app, seems to have this ability too but tbh I have never had the chance to play a sound on the train. You have to be in range for I think at least 15 minutes before you can ring a tag
Still not great. Means anyone in a classroom, a plane, a train, a stadium, a workplace, etc can just start setting off AirTag at will.
