Yes, in the beginning. Now I definitely don’t think it’s a sincerely held belief for a couple of different reasons (mostly that they’re totally uninterested in talking about whether what they’re saying is true or not – most people on the internet who have opinions on politics are interested in explaining their opinions, not like “no time gotta post more memes” about them.)
You can’t have a conversation or hope to change opinion if you don’t even recognize the other sides position even exists.
You’d be amazed what people can think and not be interested in talking about further. A lot of people are not rational and there really isn’t any getting through to them on things. Especially if they are passionate enough about it to post memes and shout outs about the topic.
It’s not hard to think there is a real person with these thoughts out there, the questions are is it a legitimate complaint that needs change to be done about it or is there a way to stop more people from feeling that way?
I actually firmly agree with you on that. I’ve had extensive conversations over the years on the internet with people I disagree with. Tankies, MAGA people, for-real kinda-could-be-neo-Nazis, standard liberals I disagree with for one of a variety of reasons. Lots of people. I actually feel fairly confident in saying that the “don’t-vote-for-Biden” people on Lemmy behave very very differently from the way people with sincerely held beliefs behave.
Like it would be surprising to see a tankie posting a “Putin is great” meme and someone comes in the comments and says “actually Putin sucks” and they’re like pff, don’t have time for that, I gotta post another Putin-is-great meme. It’s just unusual. Seeing five of them all doing it the same way in the same community is just weird.
Not every person is obligated to “argue” with me or anyone else if they don’t want to. But most people with political beliefs, in my experience, are interested to relay them to somebody. They actually kind of like finding someone who doesn’t agree with them, so they can tell them why they’re wrong. The shills kind of only have two settings: They either throw at the other person baseless and random claims and hostility, like no real grounding in any kind of belief system, only just “against” the other person, or else abandonment. That’s unusual.
I mean it’s fair to say they usually want the fight. How else get the rush of shouting at the non-believers. But I dunno just a hard stance to take right off the bat that they don’t exist at all cause you don’t like how they don’t argue. Also look you keep getting down voted. People have changed into more isolated, pro-echochamber, individuals and could just expect the rest of the flock to get you while they feel like the prophet shouting their “truths”. They are, i think, just really disconnected people, with some legitimate woes who don’t know how to voice or change it.
This is all speculation at this point, cause I assume they are real and think; the way they present to think, is how they think. I also think it’s fucked up and them and others like them will lead to a horrible life for many where everyone refuses to compromise or talk.
But that’s why I talk. See if there is a kernel of truth. And disregard the pandering and chest pumping.
People are shockingly honest if asked, especially with anonymity. It just might be hard to believe they exist. It’s hard to comprehend sonder.
Sorry, what’s the most upvoted comment on this post?
A lot of people are sick of the flood. Sometimes individual sections of a particular comment thread will all get the same little bloc of 3-10 upvotes or downvotes (in mirror image depending on who’s on which “side”), all of a sudden at the same time. Is that the downvoting that you’re saying keeps happening to me? I can list some specific examples if you want.
This is all speculation at this point, cause I assume they are real and think; the way they present to think, is how they think.
Random example:
return2ozma says he’s trying to help the Democrats by pointing out issues with Biden, because he’s concerned that Trump might win, because he’s far-left
return2ozma posts a meme about how Biden’s done nothing about marijuana policy after promising that he would, and that’s a betrayal of people who voted for him
I point out that Biden introduced a bill for federal marijuana legalization (the Republicans defeated it), requested rescheduling of marijuana by the DEA, and pardoned anyone in federal prison for possession. I ask him what else he’s asking Biden to do
return2ozma goes silent and leaves the meme up
There are a few different explanations for that, and obviously no one’s obligated to keep talking to me if they don’t feel like it or to explain themselves in order to leave a post up. But it doesn’t line up real well with the “he is who he says he is” explanation.
But that’s why I talk. See if there is a kernel of truth.
Yep, this I’m in agreement with. I’ve reached the state that Carl Sagan calls “postjudice” at this point – after some interactions like the one above, I feel like I have pretty good reasons for concluding that a lot of these people are full of shit. You are, of course, free to reach your own conclusions.
There are a few different explanations for that, and obviously no one’s obligated to keep talking to me if they don’t feel like it or to explain themselves in order to leave a post up. But it doesn’t line up real well with the “he is who he says he is” explanation.
Yeah, the in group of people who consistently downvote without conversation. The apparent expected group think that is made easier by an up vote and down vote system that people use by emotion.
Sounds like someone who would rather be angry and demand more than recognize the steps taken cause they haven’t had fruition and to them feels like too little in the face of all that is perceived as wrong. Which sounds like a lot of people in the world.
But I get it. He doesn’t talk to you and your attempts to prove him wrong and that doesn’t instill any trust in you. Probably shouldn’t. Even at best they are locked to an irrational feeling because they feel hurt and just wants to be right no matter what. And not talking about it means never being able to move past it.
But I am gonna take your allowance and say I’m done talking on this matter. Around and around it goes and you have all the reason you need to not trust them provided to you and I can’t say you are wrong. But I am personally done.
Thanks for the conversation and the perspective. And advice.
If the wall does not take your attempts to speak with it don’t, but speak to the audience who reads it.
You ever think that maybe they just genuinely think that Democrats suck even if Republicans are worse?
Yes, in the beginning. Now I definitely don’t think it’s a sincerely held belief for a couple of different reasons (mostly that they’re totally uninterested in talking about whether what they’re saying is true or not – most people on the internet who have opinions on politics are interested in explaining their opinions, not like “no time gotta post more memes” about them.)
You can’t have a conversation or hope to change opinion if you don’t even recognize the other sides position even exists.
You’d be amazed what people can think and not be interested in talking about further. A lot of people are not rational and there really isn’t any getting through to them on things. Especially if they are passionate enough about it to post memes and shout outs about the topic.
It’s not hard to think there is a real person with these thoughts out there, the questions are is it a legitimate complaint that needs change to be done about it or is there a way to stop more people from feeling that way?
I actually firmly agree with you on that. I’ve had extensive conversations over the years on the internet with people I disagree with. Tankies, MAGA people, for-real kinda-could-be-neo-Nazis, standard liberals I disagree with for one of a variety of reasons. Lots of people. I actually feel fairly confident in saying that the “don’t-vote-for-Biden” people on Lemmy behave very very differently from the way people with sincerely held beliefs behave.
Like it would be surprising to see a tankie posting a “Putin is great” meme and someone comes in the comments and says “actually Putin sucks” and they’re like pff, don’t have time for that, I gotta post another Putin-is-great meme. It’s just unusual. Seeing five of them all doing it the same way in the same community is just weird.
Not every person is obligated to “argue” with me or anyone else if they don’t want to. But most people with political beliefs, in my experience, are interested to relay them to somebody. They actually kind of like finding someone who doesn’t agree with them, so they can tell them why they’re wrong. The shills kind of only have two settings: They either throw at the other person baseless and random claims and hostility, like no real grounding in any kind of belief system, only just “against” the other person, or else abandonment. That’s unusual.
Call me Charlie Kelly but this is how I see it
I mean it’s fair to say they usually want the fight. How else get the rush of shouting at the non-believers. But I dunno just a hard stance to take right off the bat that they don’t exist at all cause you don’t like how they don’t argue. Also look you keep getting down voted. People have changed into more isolated, pro-echochamber, individuals and could just expect the rest of the flock to get you while they feel like the prophet shouting their “truths”. They are, i think, just really disconnected people, with some legitimate woes who don’t know how to voice or change it.
This is all speculation at this point, cause I assume they are real and think; the way they present to think, is how they think. I also think it’s fucked up and them and others like them will lead to a horrible life for many where everyone refuses to compromise or talk.
But that’s why I talk. See if there is a kernel of truth. And disregard the pandering and chest pumping.
People are shockingly honest if asked, especially with anonymity. It just might be hard to believe they exist. It’s hard to comprehend sonder.
Sorry, what’s the most upvoted comment on this post?
A lot of people are sick of the flood. Sometimes individual sections of a particular comment thread will all get the same little bloc of 3-10 upvotes or downvotes (in mirror image depending on who’s on which “side”), all of a sudden at the same time. Is that the downvoting that you’re saying keeps happening to me? I can list some specific examples if you want.
Random example:
There are a few different explanations for that, and obviously no one’s obligated to keep talking to me if they don’t feel like it or to explain themselves in order to leave a post up. But it doesn’t line up real well with the “he is who he says he is” explanation.
Yep, this I’m in agreement with. I’ve reached the state that Carl Sagan calls “postjudice” at this point – after some interactions like the one above, I feel like I have pretty good reasons for concluding that a lot of these people are full of shit. You are, of course, free to reach your own conclusions.
no, this is just speculation
Absolutely yes. I am speculating and sharing the results of and reasons for my speculation.
Yeah, the in group of people who consistently downvote without conversation. The apparent expected group think that is made easier by an up vote and down vote system that people use by emotion.
Sounds like someone who would rather be angry and demand more than recognize the steps taken cause they haven’t had fruition and to them feels like too little in the face of all that is perceived as wrong. Which sounds like a lot of people in the world.
But I get it. He doesn’t talk to you and your attempts to prove him wrong and that doesn’t instill any trust in you. Probably shouldn’t. Even at best they are locked to an irrational feeling because they feel hurt and just wants to be right no matter what. And not talking about it means never being able to move past it.
But I am gonna take your allowance and say I’m done talking on this matter. Around and around it goes and you have all the reason you need to not trust them provided to you and I can’t say you are wrong. But I am personally done.
Thanks for the conversation and the perspective. And advice.
If the wall does not take your attempts to speak with it don’t, but speak to the audience who reads it.