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The original was posted on /r/characterrant by /u/Stop-Hanging-Djs on 2023-10-06 22:24:14.

Ok before you say anything. Yes JJK is one of my examples of bleaker anime, I’ll address it later. So, from my memory and recent watching of older anime, they knew when to put in a sense of triumph or optimism that the heroes can genuinely soundly beat these villains and make changes for the better. Did it get a little formulaic and cliché that the good guys always won? At that time yes. But now a lot of animes have villain protagonists or odds stacked so high against them, it can get really not convincing or satisfying that they’d win. Or y’know sometimes pyrhic victories. Is it categorically a bad thing? Fuck no, I love a lot of grim stories. But my problem is that they’ve become the norm and I miss the more heroic straightforward stories like in the past. Also that in my opinion a lot of the stories that aren’t tragedies forget to give the audience proper hope and framing for the good (morally) outcomes

A lot of modern anime that aren’t tragedies, forget to give the good guys enough “wins”.

Ok, ok, ok. Let’s fucking get this out of the way. JJK or Jujutsu Kaisen. The heroes since Shibuya (or you can argue since day 1) have been taking a majority L’s with no big progress towards securing a victory. But let’s say they defeat Sukuna, Kenny and Uruame. Who fucking cares? Yuji lost almost everyone he cares about (who in this new group does he really give a shit about anyway). Megumi’s been so fucked that I can’t think of a convincing way he can mentally and physically come back for a happy ending. Gojo and and Nobara are dead. Like what’s left to even really fucking save anymore?

MHA. Everyone on this sub’s favorite punching bag. Y’know one of the things I liked when the story began was the optimism and heroics reminiscent of western cape comics. Well. A lot of them anyway but that’s besides the point. There were a lot moments of Deku saving people and smashing (not that way) villains like Overhaul or Muscular and All Might doing the same. But since the War arc? Even if Deku wins how many heroes are dead or crippled? How many civllians died in the multiple cities that were wrecked? Hell I hope they don’t also try to sell us racism is over in MHA with the people getting lynched over certain looking quirks

Alright lightning round. Re: Zero, AoT, Hell’s Paradise, Overlord, even Chainsaw Man which I love (and I don’t think is an isssue). It’s not just that it these have darker themes, it’s that the story can get so depressing and hopeless for a lot of the runtime. And then half of these don’t put in the legwork to sell us on a happy ending if they go that route. It’s not even necesarrily bad in a vacuum and for most of these stories I wouldn’t change it’s tone. It’s the feeling that most of anime these days tends to have a lot of stories in that kind of tone to the point where to me it feels like the majority. That to me it’s becoming as much of a cliché as “good guys always win” back in the day

Older anime that has what I’m looking for

Here’s a good example of what I’m looking for. Fist of the fucking North Star. Fist of the North Star’s setting is goddamn bleak. People are enslaved, (implied) raped and murdered on the regular. But it’s not a pessimistic story. You know why? Because the story sells you and proves that mother fucking Kenshiro is gonna come through and save the day. He’s either gonna save the village of the week/arc or if the villain did too much already, you’re damn sure he’s gonna get justice. Even when other good guys die like Rei, Toki, Shew, Fudo, Raiga and Fuga they die in a big showy heroic sacrifice in which half the time even the fucking villains are like “even though I just killed you, I have to admit you are him”. 9/10 times I don’t walk away from a episode feeling sadder then when I started.

How about Yu Yu Hakusho? Sure Yusuke and crew go through some tough times. And in the story (as in most stories) the cards could stack against the heroes. But tell me fellow Yu Yu Hakusho fans did you ever doubt Yusuke could win? Did you ever seriously think to yourself “man I think Yusuke, Kuwabara, Kurama and Hiei and really the entire cast are gonna die here in failure”? Or that because of the story is written it’d be more believable for them to fail? Fuck no, no matter how bad it got the story always sold you that the crew is competent and heroic enough to bring about that good end.

Dragon ball and I’d argue Z was like this too. Of course it got bleak at a lot of points. How many times are we watching the bodied crew of the Z fighters waiting for Goku? Or you know entire planets are gone? But the series also always had the Dragon balls and the meta knowledge that Goku (or Gohan once) is gonna fix everything. And there’s a certain joy to be had from that y’know? A story where good always win because they have the tools and/or are competent/skilled enough to fix everything.

Lightning round, Kinnikuman, Lupin the Third, Space Adventure Cobra, One Piece ,Naruto, Bleach. They had periods of darkness. But at their core they are heroic feel good stories. And I miss that in anime.

TLDR or what the fuck are you trying to say?

Some modern anime don’t commit to the tragedy bit and try to have a triumphant happy ending but don’t but in the legwork and framing to sell it believably

I don’t think all anime should be like the heroic cliché of old. I don’t dislike darker anime or tragedies (I love the original Madoka, Neon Genesis, Shin Sekai Yori, Fate Zero, Psycho Pass etc). I don’t necessarily even think they should stop making them. I just want more straightforward optimistic heroic stories like we used to have. Cause ain’t shit hard enough IRL already? Man I want to see the good guys win more in my animes these days.