Pretty big yikes to start out with just a blanket statement like that, but you do you.
But someone else might be more libertarian (I am not a libertarian) yet view the Republican party as evil. Even if you think that person not a good person, calling them a nazi or a fascist doesn’t really make sense.
I’m not really sure what you mean by this part other than you just think the term fascist is being applied in scenarios where there’s just disagreement?
But it really isn’t difficult to see the modern Republican party very much represents the ideals of fascism. It isn’t even a stretch. Let’s go through the definition of fascism:
“a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition” - from Merriam Webster Online
so in order:
Exalts nation and often race of above the individual? Check.
stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader? Seeing as how they tried to install Trump with a coup in 2021 I’d say that’s a pretty easy check.
severe economic and social regimentation? All you have to do is look at republican tax cuts to see that is a big fat CHECK.
forcible suppression of opposition? Look at who supports the police force and what groups are typically on the receiving end of police brutality. Check.
As you can see it doesn’t take waving a nazi flag or sieg heiling all over the place to fit at least some of the requirements to be labeled a fascist, and if we go by these metrics there are a lot of people actively supporting fascism in our country right now. I don’t think the term is much overused to be honest.
Umberto Eco gives an excellent 14 points to identify fascism.
The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
There are self-proclaimed leftist movements which fit ur-fascism as defined here. Which is unsurprising, considering that leftism is generally defined by opposition to capitalism, while fascism can be for or against capitalism.
The cult of tradition: Apart from Maoists, Stalinists, and Leninists, (all of them very rare breeds nowadays) I see very little “traditionalist thinking” on the left. So, NO.
The rejection of modernism: Does the left see the Age of Reason as the beginning of depravity? No. Even the most ardent communists the pre modern times as riddled with the same problems as modernity. They tend to see modernity and the rise of the working class as part of the solution. NO.
Thinking is emasculation, and action without thinking is good: If anything, then the left has a tendency to be a bit too over intellectual. NO.
Disagreement is treason: I have never seen two people on the left agree with each other. NO.
Fear of difference: If there is anything the left embraces, it’s plurality. NO.
Appeal to social frustration: Lefty ideologies do not speak to a middle class which feels threatened from lower social groups. NO.
Obsession with a plot: Lefty ideologies tend to not buy into the whole “Jewish cabal” thinking. Though they tend to put “the billionaires” in their place recently. So this one gets a MAYBE.
The enemy is both strong and weak: Does the left see their enemy as scary and weak at the same time? Not really. The threat from the right tends to just be seen as scary and overwhelming. NO.
Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy: Do lefties in general embrace war, struggle, and fight for survival, because fundamentally life is struggle? NO.
Contempt for the weak: NO.
Does the left embrace heroism? Quite the opposite. Lefty action is community action, where working together makes you strong. NO.
Distain for women, intolerance of non standard sexuality, and a love for weapons: Nope, the left is against all of that. NO.
Selective populism: That’s the first point where I would agree. The left sometimes does engage in populism. YES.
Does the left use elementary langauge in order to limit critical thinking and reasoning? Heck no. If anything, a lot of stuff from the left tends to be too complicated to be broadly accessible. NO.
So, to sum it up: There is one point among 14 which aligns. And one which somewhat aligns. While in 12 points current lefty thinking directly opposes UR fascism, as described here.
Pretty big yikes to start out with just a blanket statement like that, but you do you.
I think there are exceptions. I was trying to be brief.
I’m not really sure what you mean by this part other than you just think the term fascist is being applied in scenarios where there’s just disagreement?
Yes, basically. I think that is something that happens. A major issue with american politics at the moment is treating it like there are two camps, the far left and the fasicst far right.
But it really isn’t difficult to see the modern Republican party very much represents the ideals of fascism.
I basically agree. And we have to call that out.
But, there are many others who really aren’t liberal, who also aren’t republican. Like I said, there are more positions than the two most popularly described.
But, there are many others who really aren’t liberal, who also aren’t republican. Like I said, there are more positions than the two most popularly described.
Unfortunately, other positions aren’t really allowed to participate in our current system. Until there’s ranked choice or some other voting system in place that would break the walls down of the two party system, you kinda have to choose one or the other to have any kind of voice whatsoever.
And the reason that people on the left see “centrists” as mostly Republicans wearing masks is because people who identify as centrists tend to vote Republican. Who we already established are fascists. It’s like, yes I agree there is nuance in the world that must be addressed that cannot be addressed when you think of only red vs blue, but until we have the tools to actually do anything but that, we can’t just say “well I disagree with things on both sides” and leave it at that when one side is actively undermining the very foundations of our democracy.
Unfortunately, other positions aren’t really allowed to participate in our current system. Until there’s ranked choice or some other voting system in place that would break the walls down of the two party system, you kinda have to choose one or the other to have any kind of voice whatsoever.
Absolutely! When it comes to voting, that inevitably happens and it’s horrible. But that doesn’t mean an individual’s position is well characterized that way.
And the reason that people on the left see “centrists” as mostly Republicans wearing masks is because people who identify as centrists tend to vote Republican. Who we already established are fascists. It’s like, yes I agree there is nuance in the world that must be addressed that cannot be addressed when you think of only red vs blue, but until we have the tools to actually do anything but that, we can’t just say “well I disagree with things on both sides” and leave it at that when one side is actively undermining the very foundations of our democracy.
I think that makes sense in some cases. But I would call myself in many ways a centrist, but I voted all democrat for the last few elections. So, such broad strokes are a real problem.
This might be the difference between online vs in person. If you had asked me 10 years ago what my political affiliations were I would have tried hard to say I didn’t align with either main party. But fuck if I haven’t voted straight dem in every election.
On the other hand people online often say they are centrists so they can excuse abhorrent Republican behavior with the ol’ “both sides are bad” bullshit. It often isn’t any real policy stance, it just serves to present a facade of non-bias so as to further shift the Overton window even further right.
But yea I totally get what you mean, I never wanted to be a Dem because of all the rampant neoliberal corpo dicksucking that continues to prevent all kinds of good progress, but if the alternative is fascism and those are the only real choices I have I’ll hold my nose and vote D every single damn time.
Pretty big yikes to start out with just a blanket statement like that, but you do you.
I’m not really sure what you mean by this part other than you just think the term fascist is being applied in scenarios where there’s just disagreement?
But it really isn’t difficult to see the modern Republican party very much represents the ideals of fascism. It isn’t even a stretch. Let’s go through the definition of fascism:
“a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition” - from Merriam Webster Online
so in order:
As you can see it doesn’t take waving a nazi flag or sieg heiling all over the place to fit at least some of the requirements to be labeled a fascist, and if we go by these metrics there are a lot of people actively supporting fascism in our country right now. I don’t think the term is much overused to be honest.
Umberto Eco gives an excellent 14 points to identify fascism.
Bro this applies a little too well to the left too
There are self-proclaimed leftist movements which fit ur-fascism as defined here. Which is unsurprising, considering that leftism is generally defined by opposition to capitalism, while fascism can be for or against capitalism.
Let’s examine that:
The cult of tradition: Apart from Maoists, Stalinists, and Leninists, (all of them very rare breeds nowadays) I see very little “traditionalist thinking” on the left. So, NO.
The rejection of modernism: Does the left see the Age of Reason as the beginning of depravity? No. Even the most ardent communists the pre modern times as riddled with the same problems as modernity. They tend to see modernity and the rise of the working class as part of the solution. NO.
Thinking is emasculation, and action without thinking is good: If anything, then the left has a tendency to be a bit too over intellectual. NO.
Disagreement is treason: I have never seen two people on the left agree with each other. NO.
Fear of difference: If there is anything the left embraces, it’s plurality. NO.
Appeal to social frustration: Lefty ideologies do not speak to a middle class which feels threatened from lower social groups. NO.
Obsession with a plot: Lefty ideologies tend to not buy into the whole “Jewish cabal” thinking. Though they tend to put “the billionaires” in their place recently. So this one gets a MAYBE.
The enemy is both strong and weak: Does the left see their enemy as scary and weak at the same time? Not really. The threat from the right tends to just be seen as scary and overwhelming. NO.
Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy: Do lefties in general embrace war, struggle, and fight for survival, because fundamentally life is struggle? NO.
Contempt for the weak: NO.
Does the left embrace heroism? Quite the opposite. Lefty action is community action, where working together makes you strong. NO.
Distain for women, intolerance of non standard sexuality, and a love for weapons: Nope, the left is against all of that. NO.
Selective populism: That’s the first point where I would agree. The left sometimes does engage in populism. YES.
Does the left use elementary langauge in order to limit critical thinking and reasoning? Heck no. If anything, a lot of stuff from the left tends to be too complicated to be broadly accessible. NO.
So, to sum it up: There is one point among 14 which aligns. And one which somewhat aligns. While in 12 points current lefty thinking directly opposes UR fascism, as described here.
That’s why I think your opinion is very strange.
I think there are exceptions. I was trying to be brief.
Yes, basically. I think that is something that happens. A major issue with american politics at the moment is treating it like there are two camps, the far left and the fasicst far right.
I basically agree. And we have to call that out.
But, there are many others who really aren’t liberal, who also aren’t republican. Like I said, there are more positions than the two most popularly described.
Unfortunately, other positions aren’t really allowed to participate in our current system. Until there’s ranked choice or some other voting system in place that would break the walls down of the two party system, you kinda have to choose one or the other to have any kind of voice whatsoever.
And the reason that people on the left see “centrists” as mostly Republicans wearing masks is because people who identify as centrists tend to vote Republican. Who we already established are fascists. It’s like, yes I agree there is nuance in the world that must be addressed that cannot be addressed when you think of only red vs blue, but until we have the tools to actually do anything but that, we can’t just say “well I disagree with things on both sides” and leave it at that when one side is actively undermining the very foundations of our democracy.
Absolutely! When it comes to voting, that inevitably happens and it’s horrible. But that doesn’t mean an individual’s position is well characterized that way.
I think that makes sense in some cases. But I would call myself in many ways a centrist, but I voted all democrat for the last few elections. So, such broad strokes are a real problem.
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This might be the difference between online vs in person. If you had asked me 10 years ago what my political affiliations were I would have tried hard to say I didn’t align with either main party. But fuck if I haven’t voted straight dem in every election.
On the other hand people online often say they are centrists so they can excuse abhorrent Republican behavior with the ol’ “both sides are bad” bullshit. It often isn’t any real policy stance, it just serves to present a facade of non-bias so as to further shift the Overton window even further right.
But yea I totally get what you mean, I never wanted to be a Dem because of all the rampant neoliberal corpo dicksucking that continues to prevent all kinds of good progress, but if the alternative is fascism and those are the only real choices I have I’ll hold my nose and vote D every single damn time.
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