• Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    So being a Zionist is just supporting Israel’s existence now? That’s a really really low bar, and what is your solution to these “Zionists”, the destruction of Israel?

    • Meh
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      7 months ago

      Sure seems that way from their account history. Dude is coming just short of claiming Israel is a US colony and shouldn’t exist.

      • juicy@lemmy.today
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        7 months ago

        No, Israel should not exist as the ethnostate that it is today. Israel was conceived and continues to this day to exist as a state for Jewish people on Palestinian land, the indigenous people of which are systematically deprived of equal status under law.

    • dank@lemmy.today
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      7 months ago

      That has always been the meaning of the word Zionist:

      Following the establishment of the modern state of Israel, Zionism became an ideology that supports the development and protection of the State of Israel as a Jewish state.

      The key phrase is “as a Jewish state” which is what it is. It’s declaration of independence states as much.

      The term Jewish state has been in common usage in the media since the establishment of Israel, and the term has also been used interchangeably with IsraelGeorge W. Bush used the term in his speeches and in an exchange of letters with Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon in 2004.[5] Barack Obama has also used the phrase, for instance in a speech in September 2010 to the United Nations General Assembly.[6] The Israeli government under prime minister Ehud Olmert made the recognition of Israel as a Jewish state by the State of Palestine a pre-condition in the peace negotiations,[7] as did the government of his successor, Benjamin Netanyahu. (Wikipedia)

      On 19 July 2018, with a vote of 62 to 55 (2 abstained), the Knesset adopted a new Basic Law that defines Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people. (Wikipedia)

      The concept of a national homeland for the Jewish people is enshrined in Israeli national policy and reflected in many of Israel’s public and national institutions. The concept was adopted in the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948 as the objective of the establishment of modern Israel. The principle was given legal effect in the Law of Return, which was passed by the Knesset on 5 July 1950, and stated: “Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh.”[17] (Wikipedia)

      A central issue in the Israel-Palestine debate is the Right of Return:

      the principle that Palestinian refugees, both first-generation refugees (c. 30,000 to 50,000 people still alive as of 2012)[3][4] and their descendants (c. 5 million people as of 2012),[3] have a right to return and a right to the property they themselves or their forebears left behind or were forced to leave in what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories (both formerly part of the British Mandate of Palestine) during the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight (a result of the 1948 Palestine war) and the 1967 Six-Day War.

      Opponents of the right of return hold that it is an unrealistic demand with no basis in international law and that if Israel were to absorb approximately five million Palestinians with an already existing large Arab population, it would lead to the demise of the Jewish state.[8]

      So yes, opponents of Zionism call for the abolition of Israel as a Jewish state and the formation of a egalitarian state for all people regardless of race, ethnicity, or creed or at the least the creation of an independent Palestinian state to exist alongside Israel. But anti-Zionists do not support the Israel of today which is explicitly a Jewish ethno-state.

      • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        So yes, opponents of Zionism call for the abolition of Israel as a Jewish state and the formation of a egalitarian state for all people regardless of race, ethnicity,

        Yes I was already aware of everything you said and that many anti-zionists will claim that. The issue is that there isn’t an apartheid like situation in Israel based on ethnicity, there are Arab Israelis who enjoy full rights and representation, have many members In the Knesset and a member of the Supreme Court. The oppression is entirely nationality based, which is why the only solution is the end of the occupation, not some nebulous destruction of Israel and every existing state structure in the region.