National strategy beyond policing and criminal justice system needed to tackle problem, Sir Mark Rowley says

Millions of men in England and Wales pose a danger to women and children, the commissioner of the Metropolitan police has said.

Sir Mark Rowley said the figures were “eye-watering” and an “inconvenient truth” as he called for a much bigger effort, a national strategy and more money to tackle the problem.

He relied on an upcoming study produced for police chiefs nationally that says there are up to 4 million perpetrators of violence against women and children, who are mainly men, with one in 10 people being victims, who are mainly women or children.

Rowley, who is Britain’s most senior police officer, said the scale of offending by men against women and children was beyond the criminal justice system to tackle.

He told the London policing board: “When you look across violence against women and children, there are millions of offenders in the UK. Some of the numbers are eye-watering.

  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
    252·
    6 months ago

    there’s been a lot of studies. Here’s one group in the US

    The true extent is unknown because it’s not as commonly reported as you might imagine. There are a lot of people who accept abuse as normal relationships.

    But one thing that needs to be looked at, and should be sobering is how quickly people are to latch onto the idea that men are awful. For example, in the US, women are actually more likely to be abuse children than men (and elsewhere, I found one study that said 70% of abuse cases were perpetrated solely by mothers or both parents. I don’t entirely trust that study, or I’d link it.)

    Domestic violence and who perpetrates an who the victims are… is much more complicated than people realize. While it’s clear that men are more likely to initiate serious domestic violence- and that women are more likely to only resort to domestic violence in self defense or retaliation- it gets pretty messy pretty quickly. For example, in the abstract for this study:

    • women’s violence usually occurs in the context of violence against them by their male partners;
    • in general, women and men perpetrate equivalent levels of physical and psychological aggression, but evidence suggests that men perpetrate sexual abuse, coercive control, and stalking more frequently than women and that women also are much more frequently injured during domestic violence incidents;
    • women and men are equally likely to initiate physical violence in relationships involving less serious “situational couple violence,” and in relationships in which serious and very violent “intimate terrorism” occurs, men are much more likely to be perpetrators and women victims;
    • women’s physical violence is more likely than men’s violence to be motivated by self-defense and fear, whereas men’s physical violence is more likely than women’s to be driven by control motives;
    • studies of couples in mutually violent relationships find more negative effects for women than for men; and
    • because of the many differences in behaviors and motivations between women’s and men’s violence, interventions based on male models of partner violence are likely not effective for many women.

    While I make no claim to the accuracy of that study… there’s also a lot of bad “studies” that seem to demonize one or the other- or defend one or the other. I would tend to trust the NCADV stats I linked first, mind, which paints a pretty clear picture when it comes to violence against partners and whose doing it.

    One of the things that’s incredibly frustrating is when you realize that most men who are abused by their partner will almost certainly not report it to police. because of shame, because they may not even realize it’s violence. Because cops might arrest you if they say you attacked first (and that fat lip from where you hit back is rather compelling.) A lot of women also don’t report, Most. probably. Because we live in a fucked up world.

    and this all just the physical abuse. Wait until you find out how horribly under reported psychological abuse is.

    • bluGill@kbin.run
      141·
      6 months ago

      Despite the above study, if you are a male in an abusive relationship there often is no help even if you seek it out.

    • flamingarms@feddit.uk
      123·
      6 months ago

      Lotta good stuff there, but two things in response:

      First, I’m not so sure that people being comfortable with the idea of men being the abuser in most intimate partner violence situations is all that shocking. There is a long history of sexism, including systemic sexism, from men against women, dating back to Hammurabi’s Code. I think there’s a bit of an earned reputation there unfortunately.

      Second, I would very much not lump self-defense into the category of domestic violence, as that equates the survivor’s attempts to protect themselves as similar or equal to a pattern of intensely destructive behaviors meant to gain power and control over them. The two are not remotely equal, and whether “mutually abusive” relationships even exist is still debated because of the dynamics of abusers and abusive tactics.

      • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        6 months ago

        I completely agree.

        My point with that article… isn’t that men aren’t. My point is that it’s pretty messy.

        Is it self defense or retaliation? When they both claim to be the victim, which do you believe?

        Further, self defense doesn’t really hold when you stay with that abusive person for years. Or decades.

        I am not trying to say that men can’t be perpetrators. We can be. We frequently are. I’m trying to attack the notion that women can’t be perpetrators too, because the vast majority of men don’t ever report, and those that do are frequently not believed- and locked up for it.

        It wasn’t domestic- but my experience. I was a Supe for contract security working onsite because a client had an event going and needed manpower.

        A rich, drunk, and very grabby cougar decided we were going to have sex. Over the course of the incident, I popped her sternum to push her back (not a full punch, more of a shove with a knuckle. It hurts and it’s almost involuntary to step back,) to open space. She fell (again, drunk,) and didn’t get the message so I tased her.

        Naturally, she was the only one showing injury. I was wearing a body cam that night and despite the sexual assault happening on two different security cameras, and my body camera, I was very nearly charged with assault, very nearly lost my job (for getting arrested)

        The sexual assault was never charged and won’t be found on any official statistic. They slapped her with disorderly, which is a petty misdemeanor (on the order of a speeding ticket.).

        And the cop that told me “dude, you should have just found a closet and fucked her,” still works as a cop, and was simply transferred out of the precinct because the lady-cop that specialized in sexual assault got pissed. His partner was never disciplined.

        • flamingarms@feddit.uk
          1·
          6 months ago

          When both claim to be the victim…I mean, that’s basically every single case. There are signs you can look for, especially if you are trained on it, but where I’m from, the people who will be responding to it aren’t all that well-trained and sometimes the response is to provide IPV/SV resources to both parties. Which isn’t the worst option to fall back on. If you’re working with a survivor and trained, in my experience, you can usually tell pretty quickly who is the survivor and who is the abuser. But that eye is not trained into a lot of the people interacting with the situation legally, that’s for sure. And that hurts all genders. To your point: including men too because any gender can perpetrate and there is still the idea in so many places that men cannot be abused.

          I will disagree with your point that self-defense doesn’t hold up if you stay for years or decades though. Leaving an abusive situation is a nightmare. The physical violence is never reported to be the worst part either; it’s the destruction of self that is the worst part. IPV is designed to make people helpless, hopeless, and reduce their access to all resources that can help. Sometimes all they feel like they have is self-defense in singular moments. I don’t think we can hold that against people.

          What a shit situation, yo. I’m sorry that happened to you, and I’m glad you’re willing to call it what it was, a sexual assault. It sounds like your system largely failed you. I wish that wasn’t so often the case. Hope you’re taking care of yourself.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          6 months ago

          Just because you don’t see it, just because they maintain an image of being “lovely” doesn’t mean someone you know isn’t abusing someone else you know.

          We can’t say for certain just how bad it is, but we can say it is bad and it is pervasive.