So, unfortunately, both of my kids who are in their early 20s are heavily into vaping and they claim that they are buying these gray market nicotine vapes.
I know what nicotine is and whatever is in these things is not nicotine.
This is completely unregulated and there’s a chemical in there that they are claiming is nicotine that is not, and it spins your head so hard it nearly puts you on your arse.
This is the real problem. What is inside these things, from a chemical perspective, and what are the kids breathing into their lungs?
What is inside these things, from a chemical perspective, and what are the kids breathing into their lungs?
In most cases insanely high concentration nicotine salts. Back before corpos got a hold of them, most everyone vaping used nicotine freebase in concentrations <20mg/ml. Freebase absorbs slowly, you had to work hard with 20mg/ml to get a headspin, like hyperventilating for a minute. Also less addictive. Salts absorb much faster, and the disposables (disgusting waste, but that’s the profit model) are at 50+mg/ml, so the dopamine hit is a lot more instant. Of course, cigarette manufacturers have been finding additives to make their products more addictive since at least the 1950s, so whether or not and how long before those things make their way in is anyone’s guess.
You can still get reusable vapes and freebase nicotine, and it’s still the most effective way known for smoking cessation, but the enshittification has basically happened.
I purchased this with vapes back in the day. Kept the nicotine jars in the freezer, had my injection syringes to dose the vape accurately, etc. I know it well. This stuff is not that stuff.
Did you buy freebase or salts? And what mg/mL did you dose at? I still use my reusable vape and dose my own and have dosed both freebase and salts - what MalReynolds says is the truth. The salt has a much lower throat-hit, which has allowed the disposable vape companies to jack up the mg/mL to 50+ which is just fucking insane territory. A friend of mine dosed his own with nicotine salts at 50mg/mL to compare and it gave that exact head spin you’re talking about. It’s a combination of the dosage and use of nicotine salt that does it.
Head spins are when you intake more than you should or are used to. That’s nicotine’s most notorious symptom after having it. Go smoke a 16mg cigarette or put a patch on, you’ll spin and probably puke. Even your vape friends would probably get light headed or spin too.
But then also there’s the matter of it retailing at just $250 a gallon which would last some people up to a decade, most at least half a decade. The other 3 ingredients, water, vegetable glycerine and/or propylene glycol are even cheaper still since it’s in so much food. And that’s all that’s needed. 4 super common and dirt cheap ingredients.
If anyone’s adding things, they’re burning money. If anyone taking the high risk of substituting, they’re doing so for just a couple cents. But I don’t know of anything that could substitute nicotine that doesn’t cost at least 10× the price. It would be one of the moronic business decisions of all time.
You should educate yourself on the topic before asserting wildly incompatible assumptions as truth, them go barreling down conspiracies of how your assumptions are the big problem.
The truth of bad regulation is that nicotine is so cheap, manufacturers could put more in than advertised to give more hit and get users hooked on their brand over others without realising. Trying friends different ones, I’m sure some do. Some have big hits that feel higher mg than they’re meant to be. Is that “the problem” though? Only if true.
Nicotine salts in vapes absorb differently and feel very different, especially for someone who is accustomed to the relatively low dose in cigarettes. Not saying you’re wrong, but there’s no reason to think it’s anything other than nicotine just because it gave you a massive head rush. That’s what vapes do.
As a guy who makes his own juice, it’s nicotine derived usually from tobacco or sweet potatoes suspended in a solution of either USDA food grade vegetable glycerine or propylene glycol, which is then mixed in the appropriate desired concentration with USDA candy/food artificial flavorings and more USDA food grade VG/PG.
You mention USDA food grade a lot. I will wager that’s not the case for a lot of grey market vapes. It will be at most, “best effort” food grade with the occasional “whoopsie not sure what was in that drum before we used it” thrown in to keep you on your toes.
Maybe buy juice from a reputable company then, or make your own like I do. You technically don’t know what pesticides were sprayed on your fruits and veggies either unless you grow em yourself, you don’t know if the cook at the restaurant you ordered at put arsenic in your soup, live a little.
That’s what you get when you allow big tobacco to kill traditional vaping. Where were you when they were pushing bills to destroy the industry and take over it?
This is a discussion on the physical components and environmental impact of these units, not the health issues they cause.
The article is about both. It’s predominantly about the environmental impact but there is also mention of the unknown health effects of the e-liquid, with a link to another article that goes into a lot more detail on that aspect. It seems fair to discuss both the environmental and health impacts to me.
So, unfortunately, both of my kids who are in their early 20s are heavily into vaping and they claim that they are buying these gray market nicotine vapes.
I know what nicotine is and whatever is in these things is not nicotine.
This is completely unregulated and there’s a chemical in there that they are claiming is nicotine that is not, and it spins your head so hard it nearly puts you on your arse.
This is the real problem. What is inside these things, from a chemical perspective, and what are the kids breathing into their lungs?
In most cases insanely high concentration nicotine salts. Back before corpos got a hold of them, most everyone vaping used nicotine freebase in concentrations <20mg/ml. Freebase absorbs slowly, you had to work hard with 20mg/ml to get a headspin, like hyperventilating for a minute. Also less addictive. Salts absorb much faster, and the disposables (disgusting waste, but that’s the profit model) are at 50+mg/ml, so the dopamine hit is a lot more instant. Of course, cigarette manufacturers have been finding additives to make their products more addictive since at least the 1950s, so whether or not and how long before those things make their way in is anyone’s guess.
You can still get reusable vapes and freebase nicotine, and it’s still the most effective way known for smoking cessation, but the enshittification has basically happened.
I purchased this with vapes back in the day. Kept the nicotine jars in the freezer, had my injection syringes to dose the vape accurately, etc. I know it well. This stuff is not that stuff.
Did you buy freebase or salts? And what mg/mL did you dose at? I still use my reusable vape and dose my own and have dosed both freebase and salts - what MalReynolds says is the truth. The salt has a much lower throat-hit, which has allowed the disposable vape companies to jack up the mg/mL to 50+ which is just fucking insane territory. A friend of mine dosed his own with nicotine salts at 50mg/mL to compare and it gave that exact head spin you’re talking about. It’s a combination of the dosage and use of nicotine salt that does it.
It’s nicotine.
Head spins are when you intake more than you should or are used to. That’s nicotine’s most notorious symptom after having it. Go smoke a 16mg cigarette or put a patch on, you’ll spin and probably puke. Even your vape friends would probably get light headed or spin too.
But then also there’s the matter of it retailing at just $250 a gallon which would last some people up to a decade, most at least half a decade. The other 3 ingredients, water, vegetable glycerine and/or propylene glycol are even cheaper still since it’s in so much food. And that’s all that’s needed. 4 super common and dirt cheap ingredients.
If anyone’s adding things, they’re burning money. If anyone taking the high risk of substituting, they’re doing so for just a couple cents. But I don’t know of anything that could substitute nicotine that doesn’t cost at least 10× the price. It would be one of the moronic business decisions of all time.
You should educate yourself on the topic before asserting wildly incompatible assumptions as truth, them go barreling down conspiracies of how your assumptions are the big problem.
The truth of bad regulation is that nicotine is so cheap, manufacturers could put more in than advertised to give more hit and get users hooked on their brand over others without realising. Trying friends different ones, I’m sure some do. Some have big hits that feel higher mg than they’re meant to be. Is that “the problem” though? Only if true.
Grew up under a smoker. Smoked for many years. I know nicotine, and how it operates intimately. This stuff is not nicotine. Period.
Nicotine salts in vapes absorb differently and feel very different, especially for someone who is accustomed to the relatively low dose in cigarettes. Not saying you’re wrong, but there’s no reason to think it’s anything other than nicotine just because it gave you a massive head rush. That’s what vapes do.
As a guy who makes his own juice, it’s nicotine derived usually from tobacco or sweet potatoes suspended in a solution of either USDA food grade vegetable glycerine or propylene glycol, which is then mixed in the appropriate desired concentration with USDA candy/food artificial flavorings and more USDA food grade VG/PG.
You mention USDA food grade a lot. I will wager that’s not the case for a lot of grey market vapes. It will be at most, “best effort” food grade with the occasional “whoopsie not sure what was in that drum before we used it” thrown in to keep you on your toes.
Maybe buy juice from a reputable company then, or make your own like I do. You technically don’t know what pesticides were sprayed on your fruits and veggies either unless you grow em yourself, you don’t know if the cook at the restaurant you ordered at put arsenic in your soup, live a little.
That’s what you get when you allow big tobacco to kill traditional vaping. Where were you when they were pushing bills to destroy the industry and take over it?
This is a discussion on the physical components and environmental impact of these units, not the health issues they cause.
I get you’re upset, but i don’t need to be unloaded on over it.
The article is about both. It’s predominantly about the environmental impact but there is also mention of the unknown health effects of the e-liquid, with a link to another article that goes into a lot more detail on that aspect. It seems fair to discuss both the environmental and health impacts to me.
Then reply to the post, not me.
I made a polite request and set a boundary and your response was to tell me why you get to violate it. Think on why you did that.
Err, did you check the username before you rage replied? I created the post. I don’t give a fuck about your “boundaries” lol