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Kamala was so excited over the support of the neocons like the Cheney’s and big business she forgot to see how it’d impact her poll numbers. Now she’s endorsing hit pieces on progressive third party candidates like Jill Stein. I’m pretty sure she’s already lost this election at this point.
Lol, it’s always Russia with the Democrats. You’re against genocide? Must be Russian. You think Dick Cheney lied to get America into a devastating war in the middle east? Must be Russian! You want PFML & higher minimum wage. Must be a Russian!
I’m fairly certain Cheney’s interest in leveling Iraq and Afghanistan was motivated by his sizable investment in Halliburton, which coincidentally won the bid on the massive rebuilds.
No one is legitimately saying Jill Stein is a Russian puppet because they haven’t presented any evidence of her helping Russia.
People know the so called “intelligence” agencies you’re referring to said the same thing about Hunter’s laptop, and about the Iraqi helicopter video, and anytime anything inconvenient pops up.
What color is Hunter’s laptop? No one knows. The legally blind Trump supporter who found it in his computer shop gave it Rudy Giuliani who gave it to the FBI. I’ve never seen Russia as a theory behind that.
Jill Stein’s party is explicitly fighting to help Trump win. Stein is a pro-Trump spoiler. Voting for her is about the most self-defeating thing anyone who believes in democracy could do, short only of voting for Trump.
She’s against genocide and Democrats are losing to Trump because they haven’t earned the votes. Instead they want to shame and blame everyone but themselves for why people, including a large percentage of the Arab population are voting for Jill Stein in Michigan. Just like they blamed Bernie and Stein in 2016. I encourage everyone to go listen and learn about Jill Stein’s platform yourself without a Democrat standing over your shoulder whispering nonsense into your ear. Both parties of the duopoly have a large cult.
Jill Stein’s platform is, explicitly, not to win but to cause Harris to lose. Harris losing means Trump winning. Trump winning will be even worse for Gaza (and Ukraine, the US, and the rest of the world).
If your red line is Gaza, but your refusal to cross that line will make things in Gaza worse, it is straightforwardly the case that your tactics are wrong. ‘I cannot condone X, so I’m going to do something that can only make X even worse’ is not a position you can hold.
First, that is not her platform and you’re just making up and repeating MSM Democrat propaganda. Second, Kamala is part of the current administration that has had the ability to take a different stance on Gaza. Stop blaming the voters and start demanding she change her position. If she loses it will be her fault and no one elses. Last, people voting for their preferred candidate that they think best represents them is the foundation of democracy. If you don’t like democracy then vote for Democrats or Republicans who think they don’t need to earn your vote.
Here’s a member of the Stein campaign saying they know they can’t win and want Harris to lose: ‘We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic. We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan.’ This is straight from the Stein campaign. Not ‘MSM Democrat propaganda’ at all, but the Stein campaign itself acknowledging that they can’t win and that what they mean by ‘winning’ is Harris losing - which entails Trump winning.
Again, you can blame anyone you like for this, but if you vote for Stein, the consequences for Gazans will be worse. To do so is, per your own values, nonsensical.
Your assumption is that these third party voters would be inclined to vote for Kamala if they weren’t voting for Stein. There is nothing to support that claim by you. In fact, it is the opposite. They’d be inclined to vote for Kamala if she shifted her policy positions when it comes to the war in Afghanistan. Again, you can blame anyone you like for this, but if Kamala doesn’t change her position, the consequences for Americans will be worse. To do so, is per Kamala’s “own” values, nonsensical.
I’m not assuming that you are inclined to vote for Harris - you’ve made it clear that you are not!
What I’m saying is that the course of action you’re advocating (voting for Jill Stein) can only have the opposite outcome to the one you want (because it will lead to the election of Donald Trump and a still worse situation in the Middle East). This being the case, you should reconsider your course of action.
I’m always re-evaluating my decision. There is still time for Harris to publicly denounce the genocide and call it for what it is and commit to stopping the funding the Israeli war machine. It’s really her choices more than anything that impacts what happens. She has to earn votes.
Orrrrr, stay with me here, 50,000 people is an insignificant number of people in the context of preventing a greater war with Iran that would directly kill millions and millions of people. Trump has openly endorsed that war, so doing a thing to help elect Trump is not in any sense a strategy aimed at protecting the lives and rights of anyone in the middle east. On the other hand, standing by our ally and avoiding that war gives the western world a modicum of stability and a base of democratic governance to work with for the next hundred years. Don’t talk about the lives of anyone if you’re planning to help elect Trump because he is the actual supporter of genocide. It took Gaza one year to see 50,000 dead. You’re talking about “let’s elect a guy that wants to see 50,000 people die every week.” Shove it. You’re lying to yourself and to everyone here.
The war in Gaza has displaced what, two or three million people. A war between Israel and Iran will displace tens of millions of people. North Africa, East Africa, probably West Africa, the Mediterranean nations including Spain, France, and Italy, Greece, obviously, Eastern Europe and the Balkans, Western Asia, and South Central Asia including the Indian subcontinent. They don’t have enough stress already for you? There’s already a war refugee crisis from people fleeing war and turmoil in Syria and Yemen.
The continued stability of this massive region of the world is not worth it to you, because, let me see if this is right, you’re so enraged at Kamala Harris for following decades of American foreign policy in the face of 50,000 people being killed by a country she’s not in charge of?
I’m sorry, that’s totally idiotic and short sighted.
And just to add to your point: it’s not hypothetical that Trump would destabilise the Middle East, because he actually did so in his first term by giving de facto recognition to Jerusalem as the Israeli capital and by unilaterally tanking the Iran deal in exchange for nothing. The current situation is already partially Trump’s fault and, as you say, he will only make it worse if he wins.
What an insane statement completely dehumanizing the people of Gaza. No, enabling Israel to genocide Gaza is not a ‘necessary evil’ or for the ‘greater good’ to prevent a larger war. There is no justification for genocide. Ever. It’s so gross to see this kind of sentiment upvoted, especially on Lemmy.
Israel is escalating to continue it’s genocidal war. The US has enabled Israel for an entire year, which has galvanized Israel to expand it’s war without any repercussions. The US failing to reign Israel in is directly responsible for the escalation.
Israel ending it’s genocide in Gaza has been the one way to avoid regional escalations, and it’s the one thing Israel has repeatedly evaded.
For the past 12 months, the world has watched in horror as Israel has laid waste to Gaza in what Palestinians and many experts consider a genocidal military campaign—one of the most lethal and destructive bombing campaigns in history—armed and funded by the U.S. government.
This support for Israel violates both U.S. and international law. It also goes against the wishes of a majority of Americans. Polls consistently show that most Americans want a ceasefire in Gaza and to stop weapons transfers to Israel (including 77% of Democrats) amid the death and destruction.
As president of the United States, Biden cannot afford to back Israel’s total freedom of action in Gaza. He cannot assume that Israeli aims fully coincide with those of the United States. As Biden himself had noted, this is the most extreme government in Israel’s history, with prominent Jewish supremacist ministers whose stated aims conflict with both U.S. interests and values and seek an opportunity to expel Palestinians from what they see as the land of Israel, including Gaza. And Netanyahu is known to have attempted over the years to draw the United States into a war with Iran, something that’s decidedly not in the United States’ interests
Plenty of officials and analysts suspect Netanyahu’s main motivation for staying in office is that he is hoping his far-right allies can help protect him from having to face charges ranging from fraud to bribery in multiple cases, including one in which he’s accused of inappropriately accepting gifts from wealthy businessmen. Netanyahu denies wrongdoing.
Armed groups throughout the region, including Hezbollah, have long declared that their military actions are directly tied to the ongoing genocide of Gaza. Despite U.S. efforts to frame Lebanon as an isolated front, Hezbollah has made clear there will be no deescalation without a cease-fire in Gaza. Only an end to the assault on Gaza can prevent further escalation.
Oh sweet summer child with indequate media literacy.
At any rate after a year of the horrid and most atrocious genocidal madness, all the observations and evidence, and presuming that every sensational claim and all the buzzwords are 100% true, that all the bombing was indiscriminate, that the imminent famine was imminent, all of it…99% of Gaza is still alive.
On 26 January 2024, the ICJ said that it was plausible that Israel had breached the Genocide Convention. As an emergency measure, it ordered Israel ensure that its army refrained from genocidal acts against Palestinians.
The ICJ reported, as part of its decisions in March and May, that the situation in Gaza had deteriorated and that Israel had failed to abide by its order in January.
So, when we look at the actions taken, the dropping of thousands and thousands of bombs in a couple of days, including phosphorus bombs, as we heard, on one of the most densely populated areas around the world, together with these proclamations of intent, this indeed constitutes genocidal killing, which is the first act, according to the convention, of genocide. And Israel, I must say, is also perpetrating act number two and three — that is, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and creating condition designed to bring about the destruction of the group by cutting off water, food, supply of energy, bombing hospitals, ordering the fast evictions of hospitals, which the World Health Organization has declared to be, quote, “a death sentence.” So, we’re seeing the combination of genocidal acts with special intent. This is indeed a textbook case of genocide.
More than 800 scholars of international law and genocide have signed a public statement arguing that the Israeli military may be committing genocidal acts against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as the total siege and relentless airstrikes continue to inflict devastation on the occupied territory.
An independent United Nations expert warned Monday that “Israel’s genocidal violence risks leaking out of Gaza and into the occupied Palestinian territory as a whole” as Western governments, corporations, and other institutions keep up their support for the Israeli military, which stands accused of grave war crimes in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.
Our documentation encompasses over 500 incitements of violence and genocidal incitement, appearing in the forms of social media posts, television interviews, and official statements from Israeli politicians, army personnel, journalists, and other influential personalities.
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
Any response that’s not a detailed description of how to reform our undemocratic “first past the post” system before promoting a 3rd-party candidate is literally trying to get Trump re-elected. And they know it…
I didn’t down vote you but I just did. You do know calling me a Russian asset which you know is a lie is both defamation and against the rules here? Maybe I can have the mod facilitate getting your contact information if they don’t want to enforce the rules against people acting like cult members and I’ll show you how much of an idiot you are in court.
Even better the Registrar is an American company. Namecheap knows that they either have to comply in identifying the customer or that they become the Defendant.
This doesn’t make sense. Whether they sit out or vote 3rd party doesn’t matter. The strategic reason for GOP financiers supporting a 3rd party candidate is to draw votes away from their opponent. A sit-out or a vote for 3rd party achieves the same thing.
Encouraging people to sit out is just encouraging people to disengage from the entire process, which will enforce a trend that helps GOP candidates.
I see an awful lot of angry putting people on the defense, but let’s turn this around. What result that’s brought about by your vote for Stein creates the world that you want to see? In your world, what does the world look like on the morning of November 6th, and what have you accomplished?
Voting for Stein puts Democrats on notice that if they can’t stop serving their donors and start serving the American people, then they’ll be to blame for their loss. They need to earn people’s votes. They aren’t entitled to votes just because they aren’t the other candidate.
In all seriousness, do you think it will do that? There’s no place on a ballot to put the REASON you cast your vote, so isn’t it possible the Democrats who look at the post-mortem choose to interpret your vote in some other way?
If you’re going to tell people to vote for Donald, I’d rather you and anyone you convince to sit this one out. Since voting for your preferred candidate undermines any chance we have to make progress in the U.S.
I’ve never told anyone to vote for Donald, but you’re certainly helping Donald win by attacking a third party candidate, who by your logic is stealing more votes from Trump than Kamala.
Kamala was so excited over the support of the neocons like the Cheney’s and big business she forgot to see how it’d impact her poll numbers. Now she’s endorsing hit pieces on progressive third party candidates like Jill Stein. I’m pretty sure she’s already lost this election at this point.
Putin sponsored professional Democrat spoiler Jill Stein? That Jill Stein?
Lol, it’s always Russia with the Democrats. You’re against genocide? Must be Russian. You think Dick Cheney lied to get America into a devastating war in the middle east? Must be Russian! You want PFML & higher minimum wage. Must be a Russian!
I’m fairly certain Cheney’s interest in leveling Iraq and Afghanistan was motivated by his sizable investment in Halliburton, which coincidentally won the bid on the massive rebuilds.
it’s Russia when intelligence agencies around the world tell everyone it’s Russia. which you’d only know if you cared to pay attention
No one is legitimately saying Jill Stein is a Russian puppet because they haven’t presented any evidence of her helping Russia.
People know the so called “intelligence” agencies you’re referring to said the same thing about Hunter’s laptop, and about the Iraqi helicopter video, and anytime anything inconvenient pops up.
What color is Hunter’s laptop? No one knows. The legally blind Trump supporter who found it in his computer shop gave it Rudy Giuliani who gave it to the FBI. I’ve never seen Russia as a theory behind that.
You’ve never seen this:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276
50 intelligence officials lying to help Democrats is no small number
Read your own article, dumb-dumb
What do you allege I said that was wrong?
Jill Stein’s party is explicitly fighting to help Trump win. Stein is a pro-Trump spoiler. Voting for her is about the most self-defeating thing anyone who believes in democracy could do, short only of voting for Trump.
She’s against genocide and Democrats are losing to Trump because they haven’t earned the votes. Instead they want to shame and blame everyone but themselves for why people, including a large percentage of the Arab population are voting for Jill Stein in Michigan. Just like they blamed Bernie and Stein in 2016. I encourage everyone to go listen and learn about Jill Stein’s platform yourself without a Democrat standing over your shoulder whispering nonsense into your ear. Both parties of the duopoly have a large cult.
Jill Stein’s platform is, explicitly, not to win but to cause Harris to lose. Harris losing means Trump winning. Trump winning will be even worse for Gaza (and Ukraine, the US, and the rest of the world).
If your red line is Gaza, but your refusal to cross that line will make things in Gaza worse, it is straightforwardly the case that your tactics are wrong. ‘I cannot condone X, so I’m going to do something that can only make X even worse’ is not a position you can hold.
First, that is not her platform and you’re just making up and repeating MSM Democrat propaganda. Second, Kamala is part of the current administration that has had the ability to take a different stance on Gaza. Stop blaming the voters and start demanding she change her position. If she loses it will be her fault and no one elses. Last, people voting for their preferred candidate that they think best represents them is the foundation of democracy. If you don’t like democracy then vote for Democrats or Republicans who think they don’t need to earn your vote.
Here’s a member of the Stein campaign saying they know they can’t win and want Harris to lose: ‘We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic. We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan.’ This is straight from the Stein campaign. Not ‘MSM Democrat propaganda’ at all, but the Stein campaign itself acknowledging that they can’t win and that what they mean by ‘winning’ is Harris losing - which entails Trump winning.
Again, you can blame anyone you like for this, but if you vote for Stein, the consequences for Gazans will be worse. To do so is, per your own values, nonsensical.
Inconvenient for that user, so they didn’t respond
In fairness to the guy, he has now responded.
Your assumption is that these third party voters would be inclined to vote for Kamala if they weren’t voting for Stein. There is nothing to support that claim by you. In fact, it is the opposite. They’d be inclined to vote for Kamala if she shifted her policy positions when it comes to the war in Afghanistan. Again, you can blame anyone you like for this, but if Kamala doesn’t change her position, the consequences for Americans will be worse. To do so, is per Kamala’s “own” values, nonsensical.
I’m not assuming that you are inclined to vote for Harris - you’ve made it clear that you are not!
What I’m saying is that the course of action you’re advocating (voting for Jill Stein) can only have the opposite outcome to the one you want (because it will lead to the election of Donald Trump and a still worse situation in the Middle East). This being the case, you should reconsider your course of action.
I’m always re-evaluating my decision. There is still time for Harris to publicly denounce the genocide and call it for what it is and commit to stopping the funding the Israeli war machine. It’s really her choices more than anything that impacts what happens. She has to earn votes.
Orrrrr, stay with me here, 50,000 people is an insignificant number of people in the context of preventing a greater war with Iran that would directly kill millions and millions of people. Trump has openly endorsed that war, so doing a thing to help elect Trump is not in any sense a strategy aimed at protecting the lives and rights of anyone in the middle east. On the other hand, standing by our ally and avoiding that war gives the western world a modicum of stability and a base of democratic governance to work with for the next hundred years. Don’t talk about the lives of anyone if you’re planning to help elect Trump because he is the actual supporter of genocide. It took Gaza one year to see 50,000 dead. You’re talking about “let’s elect a guy that wants to see 50,000 people die every week.” Shove it. You’re lying to yourself and to everyone here.
The war in Gaza has displaced what, two or three million people. A war between Israel and Iran will displace tens of millions of people. North Africa, East Africa, probably West Africa, the Mediterranean nations including Spain, France, and Italy, Greece, obviously, Eastern Europe and the Balkans, Western Asia, and South Central Asia including the Indian subcontinent. They don’t have enough stress already for you? There’s already a war refugee crisis from people fleeing war and turmoil in Syria and Yemen.
The continued stability of this massive region of the world is not worth it to you, because, let me see if this is right, you’re so enraged at Kamala Harris for following decades of American foreign policy in the face of 50,000 people being killed by a country she’s not in charge of?
I’m sorry, that’s totally idiotic and short sighted.
And just to add to your point: it’s not hypothetical that Trump would destabilise the Middle East, because he actually did so in his first term by giving de facto recognition to Jerusalem as the Israeli capital and by unilaterally tanking the Iran deal in exchange for nothing. The current situation is already partially Trump’s fault and, as you say, he will only make it worse if he wins.
What an insane statement completely dehumanizing the people of Gaza. No, enabling Israel to genocide Gaza is not a ‘necessary evil’ or for the ‘greater good’ to prevent a larger war. There is no justification for genocide. Ever. It’s so gross to see this kind of sentiment upvoted, especially on Lemmy.
Israel is escalating to continue it’s genocidal war. The US has enabled Israel for an entire year, which has galvanized Israel to expand it’s war without any repercussions. The US failing to reign Israel in is directly responsible for the escalation.
Israel ending it’s genocide in Gaza has been the one way to avoid regional escalations, and it’s the one thing Israel has repeatedly evaded.
Biden Can End His Failure in the Middle East—if He Listens to the American People
Biden’s dangerous stance on the war in Israel and Gaza
The US Is Dealing With an Israeli Leader Who’s Losing Control
Former Israeli PM ‘suspects’ Netanyahu wants to draw the US into conflict with Iran
There Is Still a Way to Prevent a Regional Middle East War: a Cease-Fire in Gaza
Oh sweet summer child with indequate media literacy.
At any rate after a year of the horrid and most atrocious genocidal madness, all the observations and evidence, and presuming that every sensational claim and all the buzzwords are 100% true, that all the bombing was indiscriminate, that the imminent famine was imminent, all of it…99% of Gaza is still alive.
Maybe you’re right and my calculus is off.
!RemindMe in 99 years.
Others: AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC
Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Lavender
Where’s Daddy
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
Two. Party. System.
Any response that’s not a detailed description of how to reform our undemocratic “first past the post” system before promoting a 3rd-party candidate is literally trying to get Trump re-elected. And they know it…
I didn’t down vote you but I just did. You do know calling me a Russian asset which you know is a lie is both defamation and against the rules here? Maybe I can have the mod facilitate getting your contact information if they don’t want to enforce the rules against people acting like cult members and I’ll show you how much of an idiot you are in court.
Oh please do. I look forward to your fruitless attempts. Please update us on your progress
Even better the Registrar is an American company. Namecheap knows that they either have to comply in identifying the customer or that they become the Defendant.
I mean, feel free bud. I’ll be waiting.
Okay. Good thing you’re posting behind a dotcom domain and ICANN had a process to do just that.
Yeah, my give-a-shit meter is still at zero.
What are you talking about? How has she been “so excited?”
I’ve seen a very tepid reaction from Harris. Stop trying to make her out to be like some Debbie Wasserman Schultz neocon. There’s no comparison.
Everytime she’s asked about the Cheney’s she glees over their support and praises them. I don’t know what planet you live on.
If you’re not going to vote for Harris, I have some advice for you:
This doesn’t make sense. Whether they sit out or vote 3rd party doesn’t matter. The strategic reason for GOP financiers supporting a 3rd party candidate is to draw votes away from their opponent. A sit-out or a vote for 3rd party achieves the same thing.
Encouraging people to sit out is just encouraging people to disengage from the entire process, which will enforce a trend that helps GOP candidates.
This person wants us to vote for Trump.
So your job is now to tell people in a democracy that the shouldn’t vote for their preferred candidate. Are you sure you don’t just want fascism?
I see an awful lot of angry putting people on the defense, but let’s turn this around. What result that’s brought about by your vote for Stein creates the world that you want to see? In your world, what does the world look like on the morning of November 6th, and what have you accomplished?
Voting for Stein puts Democrats on notice that if they can’t stop serving their donors and start serving the American people, then they’ll be to blame for their loss. They need to earn people’s votes. They aren’t entitled to votes just because they aren’t the other candidate.
In all seriousness, do you think it will do that? There’s no place on a ballot to put the REASON you cast your vote, so isn’t it possible the Democrats who look at the post-mortem choose to interpret your vote in some other way?
Kamala’s poll numbers have dropped significantly. They know the reasons but so far they’d rather lose than stop the flow of AIPAC donations.
You didn’t answer my question even a little.
It’s not a difficult question.
We’ve established your action and your goal.
Your action: Voting for Jill Stein Your goal: To force Democrats to remove corporate interests from their platform and selection process
I’m with you. Now it’s a question.
Do you, in your heart of hearts, rubber meets the road, believe the action you are going to take will lead to the goal you want?
It’s a simple yes or no. Do you?
Your silence tells me everything I need to know about your sincerity. Thanks.
If you’re going to tell people to vote for Donald, I’d rather you and anyone you convince to sit this one out. Since voting for your preferred candidate undermines any chance we have to make progress in the U.S.
I’ve never told anyone to vote for Donald, but you’re certainly helping Donald win by attacking a third party candidate, who by your logic is stealing more votes from Trump than Kamala.
Lolol
Nice alt
Nice try