The atmosphere is so heated, and the statements are getting more and more extreme. Let’s just assume Harris wins the election. After a campaign like this, how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
There hasn’t been any normal for 8 years plus now. Somewhere between 30 and 45% of the population are openly trying for fascism.
Realistically it’s only a matter of when unless we make some pretty damned sweeping changes which they are going to fight tooth and nail.
We need to unrig the judicial system. We need to unrig the voting system. We need to put guardrails up on media disinformation. And we need to start holding some of these fucking politicians accountable for openly lying in campaign. We need to roll back the dictator privileges they managed to shove in at the last moment for the president. We need to hold some of these oligarchs accountable for crimes.
They should lock Musk up for a month. Go ahead and have him shit himself that he’s not above the law.
I don’t know who the next Republican president will be. But you can bet money there’s going to be plenty of bloodshed once they decide to do whatever they want with complete and total immunity.
That’s the funnest part of all: we don’t
I think it’s fantastic because know it is very clear who I need to exclude from my life.
how could you ever have a normal relationship with your pro-Trump neighbor/father-in-law/Uncle/Barber or what ever again?
…Why would I want to? Seriously, why would I want to have a relationship with people that have shown me that the things they value are antithetical to the things I value? I don’t give a fuck if people are nice to me; I want people to be kind across the board.
You don’t. Most of us have already either fully cut-off contact with Trump supporting family members or limit our interaction with them heavily. Our country is rotted to the core, and this election won’t be the end of it. Even if Harris wins, there will be contestion of the results. There may even be a successful coup by the Republican party. A civil war is not out of the question.
There is no normal. There won’t be ever again.
Yes, things tend to calm down. If you read history books about US history, there were times in the 1800s where brothers were killing each other over slavery and where people were killing themselves in the 1950s over their children’s sexuality. Time heals wounds, and people tend to swing in a pendulum from progressive to conservative and back again (the 50s, the 90s, the 10s).
I recommend The Lavender Scare by David K. Johnson. It’s a fascinating book back when the US government shared a frightening similarity to the CCP. It shows how a community develops in the postwar period, how a moral panic gets set off, how people are affected, and how a social movement starts and heals the country over time. It is almost a word for word copy of what is happening in the US right now, and how people in the past defused a situation that was even more loaded in some ways than today’s world. If you are looking for reassurance, it’s a great read. Many of the landmarks in the book are still standing, by the way :)
This has been the norm since 2016. Until the GOP unilaterally rejects Trumpism, this will be how it is every four years.
You sure there is a ‘every four years’ then?
You’re right, the other side of the coin that I forgot to mention is, “Trumpism wins and turns America into a fascist dictatorship”.
Only on day one he said
Ah, so we’re only going to be subject to the whims of a fascist dictator for the first 24 hours? What a relief! And it’s a good thing he’s got a track record for voluntarily and peacefully giving up power, or else I might suspect he wouldn’t think twice about holding on to that power until his dying breath. /s
Hmm due to text based communication, what I said was in no way meant to be pro trump, I wanted to clarify
In previous elections, I’d have been able to give you an answer.
For this election, the crazy will absolutely not be over once all votes are counted. This is a pivotal moment in American History and either result will cause a lot of distress for our collective psyche.
there is only forward. no reverse.
this is normal. half the country is composed of backward degenerates.
24% is backwards degenerates. That’s the percentage of the population that voted for trump in 2020. No where near half, no matter how much they may claim to represent half.
Non-voters are complicit in what is happening. Maybe saying they are as bad is a stretch, but they clearly either don’t care or are ignorant about it.
Yeah. I was sloppy in my choice of words.
You don’t. You accept the fact things are progressively getting worse and move on
You live through enough of these “Most Pivotal Elections” and the effect is muted.
I remember Bush winning in 2004 vividly, the soul-crushing realization that Americans were ready to continue the relentless slaughter of Arabs for another four years with a fuck-you kicker to anyone LGBT looking to come out of the shadows and get married. (Nevermind the shady vote counting in Ohio).
That was after the 2000 election was stolen in full view of the public by a nakedly corrupt court.
“How could so many people be so blaise about this shameless disregard for democracy, civil rights, and rule of law?”
But then 2008 rolls along and suddenly I’m surrounded by conservative revanchists who want to talk about secession, because a black guy just won the presidency. And it begins to occur to me… “Oh, I’m just living in a fascist country”.
Now, having familiarized myself with US history a bit more, another fascist winning in one more corrupted and propaganda soaked election cycle makes perfect sense.
I don’t think Bush ever sunk to the depths of the Hitler-like rhetoric that Trump and his cronies have been using, however. Maybe the guardrails will hold if Trump wins again (or loses again) but this is not normal.
I wish you were wrong, but I know you’re not.
Don’t worry, there’s the insurrection and riots next.
Depends on who wins. They’re only insurrections and riots when brown people and leftists do them.
The next J6/Charleston will be covered more favorably than the '64 March on Washington was, now that Bezos et al have shown their colors.
My wife is predicting a civil war. I can’t help but wonder what our role will be in it.
Any countries who are not sliding into fascism that would be interested in hiring two well-educated adults? I really love Germany, and despite some German heritage, it’s too far removed to be of value in gaining citizenship or a passport. We visited Germany in the spring of 2016 (and heard, several times, “WHAT is going on in your country?”) and she loved it, too.
How far away are they really? German rules about that are fairly lenient and courts have expanded them a bit recently.
Maybe any other EU country you could qualify for? Ireland is often a route some US citizens take - once you have their passport you are free to move wherever you want.
Pretty sure my great great grandparents were German. I’d have to double check that. My grandmother’s maiden name is pretty German Jewish, but I can’t recall at the moment whether she was a first generation immigrant or not. I did some research on this a few years back, and I would have to look at my notes to confirm.
It’s a little confusing because there’s a actually some German heritage on both sides - the grandmother above was my father’s mother, but there’s some on my mother’s side, too.
Americans are obsessed with genealogy, and I spent some time on it during the pandemic, so I can tell you I’m some odd fraction German, which you usually can’t get to, like 5/8ths, because it comes from both families.
Damn, that is exactly one great to mTuch. If you’re great grandparents (mainly your great grandfather)would be born on German soil it would have been easy.
If your heritage is (even partly)Jewish(or you can prove that there was prosecution for other reasons) and you can prove that they lived in Germany (and left before the war ended) there are special rules and you might be eligible.
Here in germany we’re sliding into facism as well, again x.x
Our second most voted party here is super disgustingly far-right and gets more and more votes each election - even tho multiple states declared them unconstitutional and there are talks to ban the whole party because it’s a danger to democracy and our constitution.
The most voted party is conservative-right and at least by name based in Christianity. They see themselves more in the center, but tend to be a bit to the right from it, at least in my opinion. And some of the top politicians there are saying some really disgusting right shit as well. The party isn’t really fascist, but populistic and a bit right-leaning, known for corruption, power-hungry)
Therefore I think germany might not be the best choice if you want to flee facism
(Disclaimer: Constitution = Grundgesetz. Please don’t nitpick that our constitution is technically not a constitution. Thanks)
Yeah I saw that about Germany. Unfortunately, if even Germany is sliding that way, it’s hard to imagine anywhere else not doing the same…
My wife is predicting a civil war.
I don’t think the police or the military are particularly divided on who to support. A coup maybe.
But liberals won’t be putting up a fight once the media starts labeling them Hamas/Hezbollah and you can’t post your pink pussy hat on Instagram without getting put on a list.
Any countries who are not sliding into fascism that would be interested in hiring two well-educated adults?
There’s always Ireland. Mexico is looking pretty good right now, given the flood of cheap imports and the resurgent manufacturing sector.
It won’t be over when it’s over. If Trump loses we’ll never hear the end of how he was cheated and maga people will get extra weird, maybe violent.
If Trump wins, we’ll have trump for president, which from experience is also not normal.
What you see in the news and on social media doesn’t paint a true picture of what daily life is like here for people. Most of Trump’s supporters aren’t the hateful bigots that the Internet makes them out to be, they’re just convinced that he’s the lesser of the 2 evils. This is why you see that his rallies are empty and he’s still polling at ~47%.
Most of the deepest Trump cult fanatics live in communities where that is more prevalent, like rural Alabama, so if you don’t live where they live, you just don’t really encounter them. And if you do live in those areas, you’re already used to the rampant racism because it’s always been there.
So me and my immigrant wife will still go visit my pro-trump uncle for his annual pig roast, because he’s not a bad person, he’s just a moron. I’ll still call my conservative mother every week because she’s not threatening to kill me for voting blue, she’s just consumed too much anti-Kamala propaganda. My religious sister is still welcome to visit because even though she’s an idiot, my nieces are freakin adorable and I love them.
I assume you’re not in the crosshair of Trump policy once he gets elected? Because for some people threats to their life and voting Trump are about the same thing.
You continue to tolerate your family tolerating and even choosing hate and bigotry, even if they themselves don’t exhibit them to your face. Your uncle IS a bad person.
So say they cut their family off and now have no support network. Now what?
You continue living without having to entertain hateful bigots? It’s worked out pretty great for me.
There’s a middle ground. Not talking won’t convince anyone, either.
But realizing that certain people are bad people because they express their values through certain votes is important.
E. g. you can not attend the roast and cite their political views as the reason, especially with the recent (and constant) hate on immigrants. That doesn’t mean they’re cut off.
You don’t. It wasn’t really normal before 2016 and normal left the building since.
Since 2016, its been a constant onslaught of idiots that live on the internet creeping out into the real world with their bullshit and conspiracy theories and half of America taking them seriously
This attitude is part of why we have this problem today. These people didn’t come from nowhere. They weren’t just creeps on the internet. The percentage of the population that desires a trump presidency is far too significant. Half the country has been quietly wishing for a christo-fascist oligarchy since 2001. They’ve put in a lot of time and effort to make their dream come true. It’s a shame nobody was really watching (even though the FBI has reports going back years about the infiltration of white supremacy groups into law enforcement), at least not close enough to make a difference in its growth.
The unfortunate truth is that this was allowed to happen. We dismissed their beliefs as crazy rantings instead of real threats to be addressed. If people more readily acknowledged the beliefs held by trumpets as real (a real threat) instead of internet insanity, we wouldn’t be here. Instead, we shoved them away, crying wacko. Now the propaganda runs so deep in most, there is literally no turning them back. The rise of fascism in this country hasn’t been taken seriously enough. And I don’t think it ever will be, until it’s far too late.
We dismissed
No, the Democratic Party and enlightened centrists dismissed the threat. There were people like me rallying against this bullshit since George W Bush stole the 2000 election. Some of us were able to hear these crazies clearly and realized what they wanted. We were told to shut up and stop overreacting.
Being able to say “I told you so” isn’t much of a salve when you’re starting down the barrel of a totalitarian regime, but don’t paint us all as rubes. People were sounding the alarm, they were ignored.
Whole i agree with most of your comment, I’m not really reading any solutions. I’d my attitude is the problem, what’s the proper attitude to have to deal with these imbeciles?
The proper attitude is to treat their beliefs as real (to them) and not just conspiracy or insanity. To look at them as your brother or sister and ask yourself “how did they get this way?” and not just hand-wave away their beliefs as insanity. The proper attitude is to truly engage with those who aren’t just acting in bad faith. How to differentiate that aspect, though, is getting harder to the point of impossibility. I fear we may have reached a tipping point where it becomes impossible to discern bad faith from deep propaganda brainwashing. I’m not sure if there is still a path forward in genuine conversation and understanding, which is the only route to breed empathy, something these people both lack within themselves and are deprived of from outside. I don’t see it as their fault. I see it as a failing of the community at large, one that is more ready to shun the individual, because that’s way easier than actually trying to genuinely engage them and help them grow as a person.
I believe the way out of fascism truly is love and compassion. My fear is that it’s a cycle; the perceived distance of fascism makes our society more susceptible to being taken over by it, leading to a fascist society benefiting the few, leading to the grassroots recognition that we are one people and one humanity, leading to an uprooting of fascism and rise of empathy.
Sorry if this was a bit hard to follow, I haven’t been sleeping well and I’m awake far too early.
I blame McCain. When he chose Palin to be his running mate in 08, he gave voice to the crazies on the right wing. It wasn’t long after that that we saw the rise of the tea party, which led to maga.
I think it really started with the Clinton impeachment, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, then we had the stolen 2000 election, then 9/11, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, “support our troops”, anti Muslim rhetoric, then the rise of social media. All coincides with the brainwashed kids/boomers who came out of the heritage foundation. Obviously, the racism and conservatism was always in the background. You could even trace it back further to Regan/Nixon/McCarthy. Also, desegregation.
You can trace it back as least as far as Barry Goldwater and the rise of right-wing “think-tanks” in the 1960s which came as a backlash to the civil rights movement and the perceived dominance of left-wing politics in government. Which led to Nixon’s “Southern Strategy”, right-wing talk radio, Fox News, and the ongoing brainwashing of much of rural America in particular.
Yeah the tea party started around 2009, so that tracks. However, I’d say we had this current undercurrent of fascism since Reagan. I don’t know if it was a little more chill in the few decades before him but we did also have FDR and internment camps, the Amerocan nazi parties live the German American Bund and others.
It’s something that american society can’t seem to shake nor doesn’t want to
