Ford and Musk. They Made Cars. They Backed Fascists.
prospect.org
Each age’s premier industrialist has had appalling politics.

Summary

Parallels between Henry Ford and Elon Musk illustrate their transformative roles in automaking alongside troubling political affiliations.

Ford’s antisemitism and support for Nazi Germany mirror Musk’s current opposition to unions and endorsement of Germany’s far-right AfD party, which is linked to neo-Nazism.

Musk’s intervention in Germany’s election and promotion of far-right figures on X echoes Ford’s use of media to propagate hate.

Both industrialists are criticized for their social and political impact beyond their industries, with Musk’s actions raising alarm about democracy and labor rights.

  • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
    316·
    3 days ago

    Now you’re moving the goal posts.

    I don’t care about the stocks worth, the OP said Ford (old ford) sold a lot of cars and Tesla hasn’t.

    7 Million cars is a lot. There’s not a thing in the world you can say that would ever contradict that.

    Edit: If you also want to get into it, Ford sold around 15 million Model T’s and other models in 19 years. Tesla started the Model S (their first self made car) in 2012. We’re 13 years in, and they’re over 7 million. Take 6 more years at 1.8 million each (0 growth) and that would be 17.8 million cars. Tesla is on track to sell more than Ford sold with 0 additional growth. And Tesla is going to keep growing once their newer Models come out.

    • djsoren19@yiffit.net
      14·
      3 days ago

      Ford was selling cars in the 1920s, trying to use absolute values is absurd. Take a look at things like market share. How many cars did Tesla produce this year compared to the rest of the auto industry? It’s a clear minority, not even close to the combined might of the rest of the industry. That is how I can say 7 million is not alot; because it isn’t. 15 million cars were sold in the United States in 2024. That’s one country, one year, buying twice as many cars as the lifetime production of Tesla. That is the scale we are playing in, one where Tesla sales are responsible for just about 11% of the total cars sold in the U.S. last year.

      • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
        216·
        3 days ago

        The difference, however, is that Ford actually sold a lot of cars.

        Looks like OP is trying to compare the two me.

        7 Million of the 2nd most expensive thing people typically ever buy is a lot, whether you want to try and convince yourself it’s not.

    • DandomRude@lemmy.worldEnglish
      101·
      3 days ago

      Not sure what you are talking about: Tesla delivered 1.79 mio cars last year, less than the year before and not much more than BYD (source). Just for comparison: Toyota alone sold more than 2.3 million cars in North America in 2024 (source)

      The 7 million cars you mention without a source can only refer to all the cars Tesla has ever sold. That would still be fewer than Toyota sells worldwide in one year.

      • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
        216·
        3 days ago

        We’re not talking about yearly sales. The article is about how musk and ford both backed fascists and then YOU SAY

        "The difference, however, is that Ford actually sold a lot of cars. "

        So stop moving the goal post and admit you’re wrong.

        Also my edit above shows Tesla is on track to sell MORE vehicles than Ford did in the same time frame.

        • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
          7·
          2 days ago

          When I was four, I once ate 23 shrimp in one sitting. That’s a lot of shrimp!

          If an adult were to eat 23 shrimp, it would be wholly unremarkable.

          Ford was the first person to make broadly affordable cars in an immature market.

          Around a century later, ford’s numbers are dwarfed by a much larger auto market.

          • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
            22·
            2 days ago

            Just because they might sell less cars than others in an established market where the others have decades of extra growth time on them, doesn’t negate the fact that they sell a lot of cars.

            You are all delusional in your attempt to deny that 7 million cars is a lot of cars.

            • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
              3·
              2 days ago

              It’s a lot of cars like 23 is a lot of shrimp. It is, but not compared to the size of an adult (or other auto makers, even younger ones than Tesla!)

              • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
                11·
                2 days ago

                I’m not trying to say it’s a lot compared to Toyota. OP is saying they haven’t sold a lot of cars while making a direct comparison to old Ford, while having sold 7 million, and also on track to beat the until now undisputed record at scaling from nothing to something that Ford originally made.

                Edit: In case it wasn’t clear, it was a terrible comparison for OP to make

                • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
                  3·
                  2 days ago

                  I know that’s how this started. I don’t think it makes a difference. It would be wild to say “car manufacturers like ford and Tesla make a lot of cars,” because that’s misleading. What everyone else is doing is saying “[for a global auto manufacturer,] Tesla doesn’t sell a lot of cars,” and you’re not adding the bracketed portion.

                  You don’t have to, but it’s implied by the framing and everyone else isn’t wrong because they’re inferring the correct context that you’re unable or unwilling to infer.

                  • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
                    11·
                    2 days ago

                    Except everyone is trying to change the frame to defend OPs stance which is

                    A: A flat out wrong comparison

                    B: moving the goal post

                    OP was wrong and you’re all to stubborn to admit it and want to find another way to be right. To do that, you need to move the goal posts and make it a comparison to today’s auto manufactuers.

                    Edit clarity and below:
                    Ford was just the same antisemetic person at the state that Tesla is in now, and both sold a lot of cars.

                    In 1918, Ford purchased his hometown newspaper, The Dearborn Independent.[82] A year and a half later, Ford began publishing a series of articles in the paper under his own name, claiming a vast Jewish conspiracy was affecting America.[83] The series ran in 91 issues. Every Ford dealership nationwide was required to carry the paper and distribute it to its customers. Ford later bound the articles into four volumes entitled The International Jew: The World’s Foremost Problem, which was translated into multiple languages and distributed widely across the US and Europe.[84][85] The International Jew blamed nearly all the troubles it saw in American society on Jews.[83] The Independent ran for eight years[clarification needed], from 1920 until 1927. With around 700,000 readers of his newspaper, Ford emerged as a “spokesman for right-wing extremism and religious prejudice.”[86]

                    Sound familiar?