I’m going to presume that you’re confused rather than lying.
NOBODY thinks “it’s okay to kill babies.”
The reality is that those who support a right to abortion do not believe that fetuses qualify as “babies” at all. In their opinion, a fetus is at most a potential person - not an actual person.
Yes - I understand that that’s not your position, and I’m sure you have lots of what you believe to be compelling arguments to support your view that fetuses docqualify as “babies,” but that’s explicitly NOT the position of people who support a right to abortion.
So when you characterize the pro-choice position as one that asserts that “it’s okay to kill babies,” you’re at the very least misrepresenting what they actually believe.
I presume you consider yourself to be a moral person, so you should likely ask yourself - just how moral is your position, really, if you feel compelled to lie and misrepresent the views of those who disagree?
A failure to understand or believe that abortion is murder does not make it no long a murder. For the people that believe Jews deserve to die their opinion does not change the fact that the holocaust was genocide. I also said “in the future” since, much like slavery was accepted in the past, I believe our understanding of human life will undergo change and abortion will be viewed as a murder of innocents.
So far, all you’ve shown is that you don’t understand squat about murder, fetal development, slavery, or the holocaust. Care to add any other ignorant takes to the pile you’ve built yourself?
Presuming, for the sake of argument, that the consensus in the future comes to be that it is in fact murder, then yes - it’s rightly labeled “murder” regardless of the view one might hold.
But that’s beside my point.
To carry on with this particular context, what you’re asserting is that those who support a right to abortion believe that murder is okay, which is very much NOT what they in fact believe. They believe that it does not qualify as “murder” at all.
So again, you’re misrepresenting what they actually believe, and doing so in order to saddle them with a moral position they do not in fact hold, snd that dishonesty, in my estimation, calls into question the notion that you actually are a moral person.
Oh, and for the record, I think you’re wrong anyway. I think that when all of the reactionary, emotional fervor dies down and cooler heads prevail, the beginning of human life will be defined by the exact same thing that’s already the accepted marker for the end of human life - the presence or absence of measurable cortical activity.
And curiously enough, cortical activity can only be detected in fetuses well into the second trimester.
I disagree with your logic, it is a massive logical fallacy to say that becuase something isn’t murder now that even if it’s seen as murder in the future it wasn’t murder in the past. Slavery now is still the same as slavery in the past and past atrocities do not become humane because they are viewed through the lens of time. Now legally speaking sure, if slaves are allowed then slavery is legal, but legality does not in any way dictate morality. This begs the question why do you keep insinuating that because something is legal then it is moral?
The premise of your argument is that they’re going to consider it murder in the future. But what if they don’t? Anyway, the logical fallacy is worrying about what future societies might think, since they’re not here now.
Abortion is moral and merciful. Forcing an unwanted child into the world is cruel.
Your opinion that a fetus deserves rights is something that most of us don’t respect here.
It seems like you’re all for lab grown meat and killing off the livestock for meat industry correct? Fish and other animals would be similar? Anything with a nervous system and at least some semblance of intelligence or self preservation that probably isn’t a plant? With eventually lab grown plants or nutrients that aren’t used through forced reproduction or killing offspring since they’re alive, but not sapient.
How do you see birth control working in that future? With zero abortions, you’d have to have something like men and women sterilized at adolescence then allowed conceiving rights once they hit an arbitrary age like 18? Free condoms, medical procedures, or other variations of birth control in every home or at a free doctor for everybody under 18?
Funny you should ask I work in a fostering program and have much more experience I’d wager with foster children both those taken from homes and those given up for adoption. However just because a child isn’t wanted and is in foster care does not mean you should be able to kill it.
Sure, once they are a child. But before that point wouldn’t it be great if they never wound up in the system? Anti-abortion people always bring up the "well put the baby up for adoption " idea, and my point is that’s not really a viable solution in America. Also, you didn’t answer my question. How many have You adopted? Because if it’s not at least 1, and probably should be more, your a hypocrite. You don’t want to care for a child, or judge you don’t have the means or capacity to, so you don’t adopt. Which is the same decision these women have come to in many cases.
Look into the statistics of age ranges for foster care/adoption, I think you will be very surprised at the data. But unfortunately regardless of how many children are left in poor life circumstances because of a failure by the government to give adequate incentives to promote fostering/adoption as well as funding to foster care organizations that does not change the morality of killing a healthy baby that would, if left to nature, be born. As I responded to another person, want and convenience does not dictate morality. Just because we don’t have the perfect solutions doesn’t mean we can stop playing the game.
So does all that mean the child doesn’t suffer? Does that mean that their suffering is preferable to abortion? Does it mean that the mother’s potential life long side affects didn’t occur? That her real risk of poverty, medical conditions, and death never happened? Or do all those things just mean absolutely nothing?
It’s not a game. It’s not about convenience. It’s about being able to choose for yourself, your family, and your body. There is literally no other situation in which we force people to give up their bodies, risk their lives, or give up their livelihood for someone else.
I have two children. They could need one of my organs to survive, but no one could force me to donate. No one. No one could force my husband. No one could force you. But when a person is pregnant, suddenly their body isn’t their own anymore. It’s viewed as an irreversible event that we have to leave up to chance no matter what. People talk about children who would be alive if not for abortion. What about subsequent children who wouldn’t be alive if an earlier pregnancy wasn’t aborted? The women who would have died if not for abortion?
Sure, there’s the “for the life of the mother exception”, but in reality, it doesn’t work out so clear cut. Doctors are afraid of spending their lives in jail and having insurmountable fines, so they wait until women are dying right here, right now. Women risk their fertility and their lives. Families risk losing their mother because of these unnecessarily harsh consequences. There’s no other situation in which we say, hey, you might die from this, but we won’t do anything until you’re dying right this second because if someone can “prove” that you wouldn’t have died, then we’ll go to jail for life.
I’m going to presume that you’re confused rather than lying.
NOBODY thinks “it’s okay to kill babies.”
The reality is that those who support a right to abortion do not believe that fetuses qualify as “babies” at all. In their opinion, a fetus is at most a potential person - not an actual person.
Yes - I understand that that’s not your position, and I’m sure you have lots of what you believe to be compelling arguments to support your view that fetuses docqualify as “babies,” but that’s explicitly NOT the position of people who support a right to abortion.
So when you characterize the pro-choice position as one that asserts that “it’s okay to kill babies,” you’re at the very least misrepresenting what they actually believe.
I presume you consider yourself to be a moral person, so you should likely ask yourself - just how moral is your position, really, if you feel compelled to lie and misrepresent the views of those who disagree?
A failure to understand or believe that abortion is murder does not make it no long a murder. For the people that believe Jews deserve to die their opinion does not change the fact that the holocaust was genocide. I also said “in the future” since, much like slavery was accepted in the past, I believe our understanding of human life will undergo change and abortion will be viewed as a murder of innocents.
So far, all you’ve shown is that you don’t understand squat about murder, fetal development, slavery, or the holocaust. Care to add any other ignorant takes to the pile you’ve built yourself?
Presuming, for the sake of argument, that the consensus in the future comes to be that it is in fact murder, then yes - it’s rightly labeled “murder” regardless of the view one might hold.
But that’s beside my point.
To carry on with this particular context, what you’re asserting is that those who support a right to abortion believe that murder is okay, which is very much NOT what they in fact believe. They believe that it does not qualify as “murder” at all.
So again, you’re misrepresenting what they actually believe, and doing so in order to saddle them with a moral position they do not in fact hold, snd that dishonesty, in my estimation, calls into question the notion that you actually are a moral person.
Oh, and for the record, I think you’re wrong anyway. I think that when all of the reactionary, emotional fervor dies down and cooler heads prevail, the beginning of human life will be defined by the exact same thing that’s already the accepted marker for the end of human life - the presence or absence of measurable cortical activity.
And curiously enough, cortical activity can only be detected in fetuses well into the second trimester.
I disagree with your logic, it is a massive logical fallacy to say that becuase something isn’t murder now that even if it’s seen as murder in the future it wasn’t murder in the past. Slavery now is still the same as slavery in the past and past atrocities do not become humane because they are viewed through the lens of time. Now legally speaking sure, if slaves are allowed then slavery is legal, but legality does not in any way dictate morality. This begs the question why do you keep insinuating that because something is legal then it is moral?
The premise of your argument is that they’re going to consider it murder in the future. But what if they don’t? Anyway, the logical fallacy is worrying about what future societies might think, since they’re not here now.
Abortion is moral and merciful. Forcing an unwanted child into the world is cruel.
Your opinion that a fetus deserves rights is something that most of us don’t respect here.
So far, you have managed to involve slavery and holocaust into (apparently) a conversation about abortion.
Do you think you can top it off?
Day is young…
Going to pretend you’re not a troll BigToe.
It seems like you’re all for lab grown meat and killing off the livestock for meat industry correct? Fish and other animals would be similar? Anything with a nervous system and at least some semblance of intelligence or self preservation that probably isn’t a plant? With eventually lab grown plants or nutrients that aren’t used through forced reproduction or killing offspring since they’re alive, but not sapient.
How do you see birth control working in that future? With zero abortions, you’d have to have something like men and women sterilized at adolescence then allowed conceiving rights once they hit an arbitrary age like 18? Free condoms, medical procedures, or other variations of birth control in every home or at a free doctor for everybody under 18?
How many children do you foster? How many have you adopted? 3, 4, 10, 100?
Funny you should ask I work in a fostering program and have much more experience I’d wager with foster children both those taken from homes and those given up for adoption. However just because a child isn’t wanted and is in foster care does not mean you should be able to kill it.
Sure, once they are a child. But before that point wouldn’t it be great if they never wound up in the system? Anti-abortion people always bring up the "well put the baby up for adoption " idea, and my point is that’s not really a viable solution in America. Also, you didn’t answer my question. How many have You adopted? Because if it’s not at least 1, and probably should be more, your a hypocrite. You don’t want to care for a child, or judge you don’t have the means or capacity to, so you don’t adopt. Which is the same decision these women have come to in many cases.
Look into the statistics of age ranges for foster care/adoption, I think you will be very surprised at the data. But unfortunately regardless of how many children are left in poor life circumstances because of a failure by the government to give adequate incentives to promote fostering/adoption as well as funding to foster care organizations that does not change the morality of killing a healthy baby that would, if left to nature, be born. As I responded to another person, want and convenience does not dictate morality. Just because we don’t have the perfect solutions doesn’t mean we can stop playing the game.
So does all that mean the child doesn’t suffer? Does that mean that their suffering is preferable to abortion? Does it mean that the mother’s potential life long side affects didn’t occur? That her real risk of poverty, medical conditions, and death never happened? Or do all those things just mean absolutely nothing?
It’s not a game. It’s not about convenience. It’s about being able to choose for yourself, your family, and your body. There is literally no other situation in which we force people to give up their bodies, risk their lives, or give up their livelihood for someone else.
I have two children. They could need one of my organs to survive, but no one could force me to donate. No one. No one could force my husband. No one could force you. But when a person is pregnant, suddenly their body isn’t their own anymore. It’s viewed as an irreversible event that we have to leave up to chance no matter what. People talk about children who would be alive if not for abortion. What about subsequent children who wouldn’t be alive if an earlier pregnancy wasn’t aborted? The women who would have died if not for abortion?
Sure, there’s the “for the life of the mother exception”, but in reality, it doesn’t work out so clear cut. Doctors are afraid of spending their lives in jail and having insurmountable fines, so they wait until women are dying right here, right now. Women risk their fertility and their lives. Families risk losing their mother because of these unnecessarily harsh consequences. There’s no other situation in which we say, hey, you might die from this, but we won’t do anything until you’re dying right this second because if someone can “prove” that you wouldn’t have died, then we’ll go to jail for life.