• surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    Calling it now: In the future, it’ll eventually come out that manufacturers knew EV batteries were not suitable for extreme temps (explode in extreme heat, won’t hold a good charge in extreme cold), and there’s been a massive industry push to keep these issues out of talking points.

    Toyota will be vindicated in their push for hydrogen.

    • Tja@programming.dev
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      3 hours ago

      Yes Toyota will be vindicated any day now, as more hydrogen stations close and their sales go down. Any day now.

      PS: the Mirai still has a quite sizable high volt battery, because fuel cells can’t ramp up fast enough and for regen.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        Right. Couldn’t be the monopolies protected in the fossil fuel & auto industries. Just a totally organic, politically backed opposition to cheap fueling with one of the most abundant resources on the planet.

        • Tja@programming.dev
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          1 hour ago

          It’s not abundance that matters, it’s availability. It takes a ton of energy to separate (usually from fossil fuels) and then compress (to seven fucking hundred atmospheres). By the time you’re done it’s barely more efficient than gas itself, just with no local emissions. And it’s anything but cheap, it’s similar price to gas.

          I haven’t charged my car at a “station” since my last road trip, almost a year ago. Plug it at home, ready next day. In summer, for free, and with green energy from solar panels.

          If monopolies had so much power, BEVs and hybrids wouldn’t exist. Or they would support Toyota and launch H2 cars themselves.

          Hydrogen is just inferior to batteries for passanger cars. Could be a solution for long haul where batteries start to be too heavy.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            45 minutes ago

            Please explain how a battery charged from fossil fuels is superior to electrolysis powered by fossil fuels.

            • Tja@programming.dev
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              30 minutes ago

              Hydrogen is not created by electrolysis powered by fossil fuels. Most is created by SMR directly from methane.

              But since you insist:

              • charging a battery is about 90% efficient. You put 10 kWh in, you get 9kWh in. Discharching is more than 90% efficient, let’s say 80% source to motor. Pulling 10 kWh from the socket gives the motor 8kWh to work with.
              • electrysis of water has a typical efficiency of 70%, in lab conditions 80%. Then you need to compress it, creating heat and losing another 10%. Finally, fuel cells are about 50% efficient, leaving you around 30% of the original energy. So pulling 10kWh from the socket leaves you with 3kWh to drive with.

              That’s (among others) how batteries are superior to hydrogen.

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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                14 minutes ago

                My point is you’re gaslighting to pretend that fossil fuels burnt to power EV’s are better fossil fuels burnt to power electrolysis.

                They both need the energy source to be made clean, but hydrogen will be cleaner at that point, regardless of the efficiency issues (which are already being addressed).

    • 7rokhym@lemmy.ca
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      4 hours ago

      The problem is the cars, not the batteries. Tesla doors don’t work when the power is cut, and you have to know the manual backup method, and people die of smoke inhalation because they panic and don’t know.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        You’re confusing cause & effect. The EV batteries catch fire, and then they get stuck in them due to system failures.

        From what I’ve read, part of the problem there is that Tesla cut corners by tying all of the systems together on a single bus. It causes unrelated systems to suffer a cascade of failures during incidents.

        EV batteries are still a problem: https://www.wired.com/story/ev-battery-fires-explained/

        • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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          24 minutes ago

          The cause is bad design. There are plenty of cars using batteries with the same or very similar chemistry that don’t catch fire.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
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            16 minutes ago

            Which car company invented an EV battery that doesn’t catch fire? Someone would’ve won a Nobel prize for that.