Obviously, the internet has always been a toxic place, (the phrase “flame war” has been around for decades,) but it seems to have gotten so much worse over the last few years. I used to think decentralization of the internet would fix the worst of it, but Lemmy seems to have gotten worse alongside the rest of internet culture, proving me wrong. How do we fix/improve this culture of toxicity?
Lemmy hasn’t gotten worse. Lemmy has become more popular with all of the Reddit fuckery. When more people show up more problems come with them.
You can’t. It’s driven broadly by human stupidity, which has been exploited by the rich to make us hate each other over nothing.
This is of course by design so the dissatisfaction people have with society/life/etc gets attributed to each other, instead of the actual source.
The problem is, you can’t make stupid people think.
You don’t, the internet has always been this way.
If we block and ban everyone that thinks differently from us, we can create a utopian paradise where everyone thinks the same. This might go on for years-decades maybe-until Elon Musk perfects his Neurolink protocol. At that point we will merge our thoughts, creating the ultimate Unity.
There will be no more hunger, no more pain. Dissent will be unthinkable. We will become…One.
block em. make the experience you want.
You can’t.
‘Medium is the message.’ There are inherent limitations to the formats of social media and the way people interact with it. Text stores well for social media companies, but acts as a brutal limitation of social interaction. There is a self-selection issue for the kind of people who end up spending significant amounts of time online. There is a selection pressure created by the business model of social media. Anonymity is politically important but socially toxic. There is a problem of cultural inertia in changing anything about any of these things, even within the limits of their structures. All of these things interact with other external forces in complex ways.
All you can do is try to make your little part of things better. Help those you come into contact with. If you can, help them also to try to be a good influence on others. The earth is too big to affect all at once. You will never move it. But you can move someone near you.
Be the change you want to see in the world, online and IRL. it’s the philosophy I live by
You can’t.
Most people love it, even if you don’t. That toxicity was always there… just look at how incredibly popular day time toxic TV and reality TV was before the internet and social media…
That said, plenty of people who posted here are barking up the right tree. Be what you want to see, and block/don’t engage with shitty toxic people and their toxic ideas. Support other users by upvoting and interacting with them when you see good content, and if the mods remove those posts, then stop using that community.
Way too many mods give into the toxic BS on social media due to the pressure that toxic people create.
with a few exceptions reality tv is so bad. I don’t see the appeal except for a few (alone, ice road truckers) and even those it annoys me when they try to make the false drama.
I heard somewhere that the appeal of reality tv is that in it social norms negotiated. People always tend to “update” their understanding of what’s socially acceptable behavior and what is not. Reality tv to many people is just a means for them to rate what behavior is good and what’s bad. What they often dont unerstand, is the extent to which these shows are scripted and that the writers and media channels are the ones who predetermine the roles and morals.
So what you percieve as “bad” about reality tv might be that the framework in which norms are being discussed is extremely flat and homogenous.
Or in other words the characters and the writing just sucks.
the false drama is the point.
Actually do downvote posts if you would have preferred not to read that and it isn’t of note.
I.e. downvote the 3rd post about the same tragedy when nothing has changed and not much time has passed. Downvote negativity. A neutral vote is for things that are mid and don’t matter.
downvote the 3rd post about the same
Isn’t the problem with this that there are different communities which might have valid reasons to post very similar things, and the order they’re displayed to you may result in you downvoting the original?
Sort by new and pick your favorite community. If you are fed up with the particular news it probably doesn’t matter anyway.
it consists of people too mad to be on reddit, sad trans people, and people who try to deal with linux everyday, and me…so this stress will eventually come down as toxicity with the lack of moderation. im not saying moderation is the solution, im saying this is how we are, let us be.
Don’t forget the tankies.
i totally forgot, block the whole thing. but im guessing it must be frustrating to ban everyone who finds several flaws in the bootlicking propaganda posting.
Ill be honest I read it as reintroduce not reduce lol
You’re only in control of yourself. Write thoughtful and positive posts, replies. Up/downvote based on how thoughtful and positive you think posts are.
You don’t have much power but what you have you can use.
And report content you don’t like to your admins!
the best possible answer.
Post nice comments under good posts. It really makes a difference to the active posters and generally lifts the mood of this place.
One thing is to ensure that people understand you won’t take their bullshit anymore. Mass muting, banning, and deplatforming helps get rid of a lot of toxicity because said people are only interested in it.
How do we fix/improve this culture of toxicity?
We don’t because:
- it’s a wider issue than ‘the Internet’. Haven’t you noticed how even politics in general, which was supposed to be the epitome of our democratic societies, has morphed into an hate-filled shit show at best, when it’s not effing openly celebrating murders and assassinations of people we don’t like?
- we’re part of the issue. It’s not a ‘them’ vs ‘us’. It’s us. And most of us, no matter what we believe in, are acting like morons, at best.
but Lemmy seems to have gotten worse alongside the rest of internet culture, proving me wrong.
Lemmy has not “gotten worse” in my opinion. It was worse to begin with and when I arrived a few years ago, the first thing I had to urgently learn is how to filter out what I call its ‘noise’: that constant (and self-celebrating) hatred for ‘the other camp’, the hatred for those who dare not think like ‘us’ (I certainly don’t put myself in that group). I then moved from Lemmy to Piefed, mostly because back then at least it offered me simpler/more efficient ways to filter out that noise.
How do we fix/improve this culture of toxicity?
Like mentioned in other comments, the only way is through changing (civil) society itself. Aka through education.
As long as our respective public educative systems (I’m from France, but I know it’s as shitty in the USA if not worse) are allowed to not do their job of actually educating and teaching kids some common values and principles (next to some actual knowledge and know-how), toxicity will thrive.
It thrives because it has been normalized and because those who benefit from it are being regarded as role models. But it’s even worse than that: just publicly discussing this issue and its causes would expose anyone to being… punished by an angry toxic crowd of people that don’t want to hear they’re being toxic (or that their ‘ideology’ they want so hard to believe in have morphed them into assholes). That is a huge loss for any freedom respecting society, and a huge win for those benefiting from that hate/toxicity.
edit: clarifications.
Your posts are really great. Just wanted to say it’s super cool to have someone thoughtful contributing and articulating a realistic approach.
Thank you very much. I’m just sharing what I think.
I don’t buy this narrative that toxicity is inevitable. That’s the narrative pushed by Reddit/Xitter/Meta because toxicity causes engagement which makes them rich. They don’t want to delete it. It’s only inevitable if admins allow it to be.
That “rule” don’t apply on Fedi where we can simply join an instance that actively bans all the bs.
I don’t buy this narrative that toxicity is inevitable.
You’re more than welcome to buy what you fancy, I don’t recall saying it was unavoidable. I even think I mentioned why we somehow manged to make it as… present as it is, and how we should try to get rid of most of it (hint: through education).
Can we get rid of all of it? Nope, unless one is to pretend we’re perfect? Don’t know about you but I’m certainly not perfect.
My belief is that toxicity online is like building a six lane highway through a residential neighborhood. If you build the infrastructure to support more cars, and the law allows speeding you’re going to get more cars (and more car accidents).
If you build platforms that don’t allow cars/limit their behavior where people are trying to have a polite conversation, you’ll see quiet more thoughtful modes of transportation and fewer innocent bystanders get hurt.
Wow that analogy worked pretty well.
My opinion is that toxicity can be found in every little gesture in our daily life, no need for an highway. It’s also not somethign ‘external’ to us that appears because of poor decisions. It can and often thrives even in the most ‘humble’ or humane ‘infrastructures’, to use you image. Suffice to look how two people, say two neighbors, can literally hate on one another for petty reasons.
If you build platforms that don’t allow cars/limit their behavior where people are trying to have a polite conversation, you’ll see quiet more thoughtful modes of transportation and fewer innocent bystanders get hurt.
People can have a fight on the street, or in a pub, in a shop, at work, or wherever, even at home, within a family circle, because “he looked at me!” or because “I don’t like the way he dress” kind of reasons. Do you really think tech is the issue?
But once again, you’re more than welcome to believe what you want to believe. Just don’t try to put words in my mouth that I did not say.
I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but it sure seems like you’re saying that toxicity can inevitably be found in every little gesture in our daily life, including internet platforms, which is a narrative I disagree with.
People can have a fight on the street, or in a pub, in a shop, at work, or wherever
Pretty much all pubs and shops I know quickly expel and ban people who fight there. If those places allowed fighting (as many internet platforms do) users looking for a fight would eventually gravitate there, and people looking to discuss peacefully will go elsewhere.
Do you really think tech is the issue?
No, I’m saying people are the issue. Toxicity is not something that can be found everywhere, it only pops up where it’s allowed to flourish.
Why?
toxicity is inevitable in real life such as much. toxic people are everywhere, and they drag people down with them.
i’ve had toxic family, friends, and co-workers. sometimes you have no choice but to live with it, sometimes you can ignore it, sometimes you can boot the person from your life if they cross certain boundaries. and sometimes the toxic person tries to get you removed.
the false tech bro assumption I’ve seen since forever, is the idea you can engineer out people’s negative behaviors and impulses… you can’t. they will find a way to exploit whatever system you set up. that’s what they do… that’s what makes them toxic. you cannot create a social media network that is free from toxic people, unless you make one with no people involved.
I’m not talking about engineering a problem away. I’m saying it can’t be engineered away and requires human adults in the room (moderators in this case) to handle bad behavior.
Accepting the presence of toxicity as a fact of life does nothing more than attract more toxicity.
2 reminded me of a saying. You’re not stuck in traffic, you ARE traffic.
and sometimes you have no choice but to submit. and that’s OK
it’s also not your fault if a drunk driver or similar crashes into you and causes a traffic jam… it’s the other person’s fault.
way too many toxic folks on lemmy are apologizing for the drunk driver and blaming the victim constantly. especially when they identify with the drunk driver or start thinking ‘he had no choice!’
Couldn’t agree more! People should be more tolerant and stop hating on people having different opinions
…What’s the different opinion Anakin?
