Ukraineās President Volodymyr Zelensky has said the death of Yevgeny Prigozhin ā the Russian mercenary leader whose plane crashed weeks after he led a mutiny against Moscowās military leadership ā shows what happens when people make deals with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.
As Ukraineās counteroffensive moves into a fourth month, with only modest gains to show so far, Zelensky told CNNās Fareed Zakaria he rejected suggestions it was time to negotiate peace with the Kremlin.
āWhen you want to have a compromise or a dialogue with somebody, you cannot do it with a liar,ā Volodymyr Zelensky said.
Not only did they then, they still want to now. Are you not following this war? Several rounds of peace talks have been spurned by Ukraine now. When we say ātheyā of course we mean the fascist dictatorship thatās running the place, not all the people.
Of course? More specifically they wanted to ālead the white races of the world in a final crusade ā¦ against Semite-led Untermenschenā and so forth, according to Andriy Biletzky for example. This is the type of guy who got put in power after the Nazi coup.
Iām afraid youāve been taken for a fool here. Thatās not what happened. Independent Crimea invited Russia in to protect its citizens from the Nazi pogroms that had already started directly after the coup. Here you can read the people who live thereās polling. Around 15% considered themselves to be Ukrainian. Over 50% wanted a union with Russia compared with 17% with Ukraine.
Later a Pew research poll from 2014 found that 91% of Crimeans considered the referendum free and fair, and 88% felt Kyiv should accept the results.
Indeed. You should be annoyed at the people who lied to you.
The USA overthrew Ukraineās democracy and popularised a Nazi based ultranationalism. Not Russia or anyone else.
This again is just a product of propagandising and manipulation. I understand itās hard to accept the scale of the lies, I really do. But accept it you must if you want to consider yourself to be a rational well informed person.
What would it take for me to convince you? A confession from the head of NATO or something?
Well youāre in luck. Stoltenberg confessed a couple of days ago.
During a speech at the EU Parliamentās foreign affairs committee on Thursday, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg clearly and repeatedly acknowledged that Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine because of fears of NATO expansionism.
In reality Stoltenberg is just stating a well established fact: contrary to the official western narrative, Putin invaded Ukraine not because he is evil and hates freedom but because no great power ever allows foreign military threats to amass on its borders āāā including the United States. Thatās why so many western analysts and officials spent years warning that NATOās actions were going to provoke a war, and yet when war broke out we were slammed with a tsunami of mass media propaganda repeating over and over and over again that this was an āunprovoked invasionā.
Whatās happening is that the US has gotten its latest war that itās been pushing for for decades. Itās always the USA, always has been, except this time, right?
A few points:
0:
First things first:
1:
The peace terms Russia offers is the equivalent of me telling you that Iām going to beat the shit out of you if you donāt give me a room of your house and stop talking to your neighbours. Obviously you wonāt accept my terms, not because you want to fight with me, but because my terms are not acceptable to you.
I really fail to see why would anyone support these type of invasions where one side just annexes land because they can. Would you support it too if it was the US? I wouldnāt.
2:
The ālittle green menā - later confirmed by Putin to be Russian - were not invited by anyone. A group of people inviting someone to annex them is also not a justification for an invasion. Thatās not how international law works nor would you accept that justification from other countries.
If it walks like and invasion and quacks like an invasion, then itās an invasion. Letās not pretend otherwise. Putinās own version of history even justifies all this because itās all āRussian landā anyway.
3:
I really donāt like Nazis, Ukrainians or not. The problem with invading because of them is that Russia has the same type of crowd, which following the logic promoted people like you means that any country can now invade Russia, as they also have a ānazi problemā, not only in political parties, but also in Ultra groups and āphilosophersā. Well, unlike you, I donāt think we should be invading countries because they have some ultra nationalistic groupsā¦ so Iām not going to support any invasion of Russia either.
Iād also like to remind you that the far right party had less than 2% of the votes in the 2019 election. If less than 2% is a signal that the country is full of nazis, then maybe I donāt know how % work.
The now very famous Azov Battalion (thanks Russia for creating some martyrs, like wtf?) was created in May 2014. Whatās the context though? In February, Russia took over Crimea and started shit in the east, confirmed by people like Igor Girkin. The bloated, weak, and corrupt Ukrainian army was shitting their pants and the usual groups got together to fight. It wasnāt only the far right though, you even had far left anarchists doing the same. I donāt know why this is a surpriseā¦ whoās going to stand and fight if not those with more extreme views?
4:
I donāt know if the USA was behind the coup, in any case, with Russiaās interventions in Belarus and Kazakhstan that seems to be acceptable from their point of view.
What I know is things went to shit when the then president Viktor Yanukovych did a 180Āŗ turn on the European UnionāUkraine Association Agreement and decided to do an agreement with Russia instead. Maybe youāll blame the US for that decision, I donāt know, but thatās when the protests, Maidan, etc, happened.
In any case, Ukraine had laws and the new government and elections followed that law. Itās just what it is, we donāt have to like it. And itās certainly none of Russiaās business.
5:
NATO had an open door policy from the start. I know this, you should know this, and Putin certainly knows this. The policy doesnāt change. Nor it should change. We donāt tell Russiaās CSTO to change their rules, they donāt tell us to change our rules. Itās simple to understand.
Ukraine has been trying to join NATO from the early 2000s. Are they in NATO? No, of course they are not. The chances of me joining NATO today are higher than Ukraineās chances in 2014, yet Russia did what they did.
Russia invaded Ukraine, but not because NATO kept repeating the same āwe will consider any applicationā talk theyāve been repeating from the start. Nothing changed. Russia started a war - not NATO - and as grown ups they also need to accept the consequences of their decisions.
6:
I thought it was because of the Nazis? And Iām sorry, whereās the āgreat powerā here?
Reminds me of the UK after WW2. Still acting like they were rich, powerful, and had an empire. Russia needs to have a good look at themselves. They are not the Soviet Union or are in the US or Chinaās league. We all need a reality check sometimes, hopefully this will be theirs.
Also, and while with many differences and a weird past, not even during the Cuban missile crisis did the US invaded Cuba. Shit only almost hit the fan because of the nukes, not because Soviet troops were thereā¦ and they were there for a long time before that.
7:
Chechnya, Georgiaā¦ yes, it must be always the US forcing Russia to start wars. Itās never Russiaās fault, the poor guys just canāt control themselves and have to wage war on everyone around them.
Next weāll blame any war in the Pacific on the US too when China decides to occupy some random island that doesnāt belong to them, because of course China was āforcedā to be aggressive. Their claims over the south china sea that overlap territorial waters of other countries? All the US fault! Canāt you see they are being oppressed for gods sake!!! /s
Itās always everyone elseās fault. The US should start doing the same. Vietnam? Itās all the Sovietās fault. Iraq? I donāt know, maybe blame Iran or something š¤·āāļø. Iām joking, they shouldnāt do that.
What about taking responsibility for our actions? Russia decided to invade Ukraine. No need to be so defensive about it, they started the war, itās them that crossed the border in 2014 and 2022. The way some of you talk itās as if Ukraine/NATO/US invaded Russia, but no, Russia did it.
[Iād really like to continue this conversation about how Russia is totally blameless for the war they started (lol), but I have more important things to do. Iāll leave the thread here.]
I didnāt read the rest but this jumped out just as I was scrolling by. Behold comrades, pure zombie NPC.
āI really am terrified of a discussion about this but Iām typing up a shitload of Nazi apologia anyway and then running away.ā
Even Russia has issues with Chinaās claims:
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-breaks-silence-china-map-disputed-islands-1823983
But sure, keep blaming the US for Chinaās actions. Poor China, also being forced into doing this.
Regarding the āNazi apologiaā, what part of ādonāt invade someone elseās countryā donāt you understand? Tankies gonna tankie, I guess.
Every single country in the region has disputed claims. Every one.
Forced into doing what? Beating the US at everything? Maybe go home yanks and look after your starving children? Or your sick who are dying for lack of basic medicine.
Oh itās you! So you didnāt run away like you promised?
This you?
Trying to both sides Ukraineās Nazism. Pathetic. Tell me, if they only got 2% of the vote, why did your rotten murderous scumbag country put Biletsky into power after your illegal Nazi coup? A guy whoās sworn that Ukraineās national purpose is to ālead the white races of the world in a final crusade ā¦ against Semite-led Untermenschen [inferior races]ā?
Indeed, itās normal to have disputed claims, even between China and Russia. But as soon I mentioned China in the south china sea, that ājumped outā. If China behaves like dickheads with Russia, itās normal. If they do it in a different region, itās the USā fault.
You hate a country so much that it clouds your view to the point that you criticise said country for doing something (eg: invasions) and then defend another you like (Russia) for doing the exact same thing. āGo home yanksā one second and defend Russia invading other countries the next. And Iām the fucking zombie?
I never left Europe, so I donāt know whatās that about medicine. I have free healthcare. Iām not a fucking tankie though, you wonāt see me defending the invasion of other countries like you do.
Thereās not much to run from to be honest. Itās just I have no patience to discuss with people that defend the invasion and annexation of other countries. You want this war, you love it so much that you go around the internet making excuses to justify it, you just lack the balls to admit it. And then, when a country you donāt like does the same, you correctly criticise their imperialism and tell them to go homeā¦ youāre not doing it for the right reasons though, after all you like war when Russia wages it. Itās just a general hate of the west that makes you have that reaction.
I really dislike people like you, so, and as soon I submit this comment, Iāll do what I should have done when you replied to me: block you.
Iām not going to ask for proof of that coup because I know you donāt have it, but let me turn that question aroundā¦ Would a country with so many nazis remove people like Biletsky from power, only give 2% of the vote to the nazis, and elect a jew (all in 2019)?
Youāll probably do some mental gymnastics as you need to hold on to somethingā¦ I mean, a man needs to sleep at night and if thereās nothing to justify this war Russia started, you might reach the conclusion youāre just a bad person that likes to see big countries invading, annexing, and killing people (as long itās Russia doing it!).
Ta ta and farewell.
Yes, exactly. Russia share a border. The US is a country on the other side of the planet. Itās already lolworthy that you typed this as your first argument. Why is the US trying to provoke these invasions that you pretend to hate so much?
You forgot that only one country is behind these invasions. The USA. It provoked Russia to invade for years. Russia pushed for peace. This is a basic historical reality youāre going to have to confront. This is what theyāre trying to do with Taiwan now.
Youāll defend the USA though? A country thatās invaded more that any other in your living memory. Says it all about where you stand and your lack of principles.
Yet here we are. You donāt even agree with yourself.
Thatās literally you youāre describing, trying to justify Americaās latest war.
So weāre agreed after all? The yanks should go home? If theyād done that in 2014 thereād be no war. Looks like this was all a misunderstanding comrade.
What a coward.