- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
NSFW for: Potentially challanging your narrative and worldview.
I recently found this article summarising important findings.
Breaking out of ones own bubble is important. And I would like you to remember this the next time you are at a ballot.
If you really think of the children, vote according to reality.
And if you FEEL personally attacked by this article and bash me in the comments, whataboutism away from the subject or bothsides-ing the issue; Thanks for making my point for me and seek help.
What are you talking about? I havenāt pretended anything, certainly not that.
Iāve made two, which Iāve continued to elaborate on:
Hey! I spent time making that! It roughly describes the left right spectrum. You barely even commented on it.
Iāve answered your questions dudeā¦ Wtf are you talking about?
Um, wtf are you talking about? I keep criticisng state powerā¦ Are you trolling me?
Yes, and they do. On the rich, anyway.
Iām not the one saying they actually want low taxes. They just want low taxes for the rich, by using either flat tax or very minor progressive taxing.
Why say ātotally-not-a-stateā? Now youāre the one deferring to state power by assuming itās necessary. And why should it use money if all goods are freely available?
A world that does what? Use money? Well, if weāre for some reason assuming this end-stage communism has been reached without a global revolution, then methods can be set up for external trade, assuming this hypothetical communist society hasnāt been embargoed by the world for daring to try communism, like has happened to Cuba.
Or invaded, like Vietnam, Argentina, Chile, etcā¦
Who ever said it didnāt? But we already possess the capability to feed the world and still have some left over. The issue isnāt scarcity, itās economics.
Economies maybe, but markets arenāt inevitable. They havenāt always existed.
If youāre gonna appeal to the black market as some sort of ideal free market for the world market to aspire to, then I worry that Iāve been taking you far too seriously.
Im actually pleased if you did produce the .png yourself :] Barely commented on it? Ive flipped it over because it DOES describe taxation if you assume (correctly) that UltraCapitalists dont like paying taxes and dont want their companies to go public-sector. Im merely reframing your view by making inferences. Simple assumptions.
You DID deflect questions. Theres some you missed still, but its cool. Weāve had a lot to say. I dont think your a robot (anymore) :] Im on mobile, so forgive me if I dont hit all your comments, too. Also we really should condense to one reply thread. Been here before, makes things easier. Im gon try to wait until you reply to my last to make it happen.
I am a Libertarian, not an anarchist. I like the idea of a State. They just also happen to suck in practice. Im giving you hell about Communism but I have criticisms of āNeo-Libralismā and cuckservatives. For instance, if our nation has open borders then how do I still have property rights if Uncle Sam cannot establish their own rights to property! How can I enjoy my (positive) liberty when the dollar is failing to poor economic planning?! And so on. Technically this will make me a statist, sure. But given the need to redistribute, AnComns are just a larp. AnCaps almost make sense, but its squirrely.
I agree foreign intervention is fucked up and beyond the scope of what our nation was intended to achieve. Retaliation? Maybe, but only if Congress approves and the budget isnt skyhigh. However I go even farther. US founders specifically warned of āestranged and entangling foreign relations.ā This is describing UN/NATO and so on. Im against those sorts of councils.
I would like to hear YOU (not wikipedia) explain the difference between markets and economies. I suspect all youāll come up with is scaleā¦
We have the ability to feed the world on paper. Heres how you can tell its BS thoughā¦ We havent worked out water yet. Water is virtually imparishable, comes in 1 flavor, is needed everyday, cannot be deformed, can be transported by static pipesā¦ But its not done. Imagine how much harder of a problem food is than water. Its incalcuably more difficult.
Awful things happen in the black market. Human trafficking and hitmen and so on. However it is infact a free market. Most critiques of capitalism come post-robber barron. When the FED was formed. Then blew our load fighting for Europe whoch tanked our finances. So we switched to fiat to fund endless wars and dick with other free peoples. And everyone lives in debt to the banks named after the same robber barrons now. Charming. I would suggest you and I probably never saw a free market.
For instance: Opening a gas station. Gas prices are set by OPEC. US agencies tell you the tax rates, they tell you all the expensive standards they want you to achieve. Then across the street another gas staion opens up. If you charge way more than him, its āprice gouging.ā Way less, āpredatory prices.ā The same?! āPrice collusion.ā Gas stations net profit in selling chips than gas. āFree market.ā
Most ironically, the practice of making gouging/collusion/predatory tactics unlawful is to prevent monopoly. Meanwhile, the oligarchs openly lobby the government.
Not just scale, but category. Economy describes the entire flow of goods around a given area. Market is a specific way to distribute goods, that is predicated on competition between sellers to sell goods to consumers. Economies donāt necessarily have to be market economies.
Because of capitalism. The infrastructure is already there to freely give water to entire nations. But certain people would lose out on money if it were nationalisedā¦ and those people have lots of money to lobby with.
LOL no. Socialism has been a movement since capitalism began, dude.
Seems pretty free right now. Ask Jeff Bezes and Elon Musk. Theyāre living pretty free.
Iām not sure why youāre not a socialist if you see the problems inherent in capitalism. The core difference between the two is that capitalism is set up to enrich owners of a business, and socialism is set up to enrich the workers. Iām honestly asking, why do you object to that?
Pffffffffft! You point to Bezos and Musk as āfree marketā guys yet Bezos in prticular made his monopoly through non-compete practices and Musk through govt subsidy. Bro, plz. These are the oligarchs. Dont put them anywhere near a gas station worker! Further, these are people, not markets. I dontā¦ I just dont, lmfao.
Monopoly is not a problem with capitalism, it is a problem with government. Of coure a business seeks to grow/profit. But govt was supposed to protect consumers from monopoly. They didnāt. Clearly. Do I blame Bezos/Musk (whom I give $0) or the government that was supposed to protect me (whom I give a significant percentage of net-wealth). Arguably, we would not have our current oligarchs without the collusion between State and corporationā¦ Whats the word for that again?
Socialism has existed since capitalism began? So are you calling Communism Socialism now? Do you agree with V. Lenin when he said āThe goal of Socialism is Communism.ā? The slope is slippery, lmao.
Its funny, man. Youāll play appologist for the USSR (re: Holodimur) but then go to say no, it wasnt real Communism. This strikes me as an inconsistency. Its easy to find flaws in things that actually exist ;]
The infrastructure for water kind of exists in the West. But its also pretty piss-poor. I live near Detroit/Flint. It took ~9yrs to fix the shitty infrastructure. This how I know youāre an idealist-- Youāre diminishing the seriousness of the differences in the problems. Water is baby-mode compared to food.
Consider my experience of public services. Roads: Detroit. Schools: Detroit. Living standards: Detroit. Police response: Detroit. Fire response: Detroitā¦ The public sector is a joke.
Go back to the very beginning where I mention Thomas Sowell. You have the anoited vision, you think that impossible things can be achieved with enough money (which is tantamount to force). I donāt, I think some problems are legitimately impossible by their nature. If you shrug off food shortages and starvation as a ācapitalitsā problem then I know you guys are damned, lol. It IS a hard problem. Try and tell me that itās not.
You can assure me that I wont get the bullet, but what if Im only gulagād? :p What if youāre just some prole and have no say?! People like me are a problem for you guys. Once you get enough FORCE you wont be talking with meā¦ This talking/pseudo-intellectual phase is merely the boot getting put on the foot. I know, Ill be re-educated and made to say I love the State. Hell, maybe youāll get an extra [widget] if you turn me in ;]
Im going to go to work, but I would like to make a little consensus between us :] āFuck this bullshit neo-liberalism.ā Agreed?
Yep, thatās the free market in action. What do you think free market capitalism is all about? It means less regulation, more freedom for capitalists to do what they want. And neoliberalism has ensured that capital is completely protected by the state.
Lmao you literally described the problem of capitalism. āOf course they want to grow!ā Yeah - because capitalism. Capitalism requires businesses to seek growth, because otherwise theyād fail. That literally isnāt a problem outside of capitalism.
Neoliberalism? Corruption? Capitalism?
ā¦No? Why would one entail the other?
Yes, that is the goal of socialism. And what slope do you mean?
ā¦excuse me? Here are my exact words:
That is not USSR apologia. That is condemning them for failing to do better.
But itās not communism. It has a state. Like I said. It was a Marxist-Leninist socialist state. Whereās the inconsistency?
So it needs to be improved.
So they need to fucking do better.
No, Iām really not. Iām not calling any of this easy.
Whatever you say.
Because neoliberal capitalism insists that the state must stay out of everything, and any service it provides must be put to the market to compete and neutered, because the intention is to remove all public services and leave them to the whims of the market. Neoliberals believe every facet of life must be a competition, and all aid is wasted tax dollars. And when theyāre in power, they work hard to make sure this is true and that the public sees it as an inevitable failure of services that inherently canāt work, rather than intentional sabotage of critical infrastructure to enrich their cronies.
This is why the neoliberalism is cancer to society. And capitalism inherently leads to this - capitalism cannot exist without a state to protect its private property. And this relationship develops parasitically until the state is merely an organ for capital to oppress the people.
Thatās an incredibly dishonest representation of socialist theory. I really donāt understand how you can think thatās what Iāve said.
Why? You really havenāt explained your view on this. Youāve just said, basically, āit hasnāt been done therefore it canāt.ā
Who the fuck is saying that? Itās a multifaceted, complex problem, but capitalism is at the core of it. A few questions:
What is the actual reason homeless people exist in the richest nations on Earth?
What is the actual reason millions struggle to feed themselves in said nations?
What is the actual reason millions have to work for bullshit pay on behalf of the richest corporations in the world?
Why do you seem to expect it would be hard for me to say, āthis is a difficult problemā? What gave you the impression I thought this could be done easily?
Youāre just not taking this seriously. Why am I?
The vast majority of us are already proles. It is is who will be leading the revolution. I think you have a distorted view of what communism and socialism are. It is fundamentally democratic, inherently so, led by the people on the ground who are themselves motivated to improve their own conditions for the good of their society.
Stop fantasising that youāre some outlaw.
Why do you say this? Like Iāve said, communism is led by the people. Anything that is led by authoritarian force has no business calling itself communist. Why canāt you get past this? Why wonāt you learn? Iām really trying here to help you understand. You have to work with me. Just understand Iām not lying to you. Why is that so hard? Youāre fundamentally resisting the information Iām giving you.
Why call it pseudo-intellectual? Why call it a phase? Why do you think there is some secret master plan for domination?
Where do you see this in socialist theory? Which socialist writer promoted anything like this?
Please answer.
FFS man. Listen. Communism is stateless. Why wonāt you listen?
Why do you say youāll be re-educated? What state will you be made to love?
Please answer.
Youāre just not listening!!! This is hopeless.
I donāt think thereās anything else weāll agree on. But at least consider what Iām saying isnāt a cover for some master plan for world domination. I donāt want power. Socialists donāt want power vested in any individual or minority of elites. Socialists want workers to have control of their own lives, to be able to choose their work of their own free will, to better society because they truly want to.
Force is how we labour now. These fears of yours are our current reality. You cannot truly decide how you work or how you live your life. You have options to choose between, but all of these options have been provided for you by the symbiosis of State and capital, and all of these options enrich them at your expense. The only option that doesnāt exploit you is not working, and unemployment is deliberately as unappealing and tenuous as possible. Poverty and homelessness are tools of coercion employed by capital to keep you as afraid of unemployment as possible.
Being forced to love the State? What is the Pledge of Allegiance? What are mandatory holidays commemorating servants of State? What is the pomp and pageantry associated with election campaigns?
Re-education? What is prison, to which you can be sent for offences as minor as possessing substances for personal use, or peacefully expressing your distaste for the State in public?
Yes. Fuck neo-liberalism. Fuck the capitalism that birthed it. Fuck the State.
All power to all the people. Thatās what I want. Thatās what socialists want. Please understand this.