I’m moving my posts from Reddit to Lemmy before delete them.
This post is from 2021-11-11.
It should’ve been apt-get but welp.
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Yes, my hand still slaps my face everytime i remember
But why? Wasn’t it an error in the deb package of steam that did that?
I believe it was before system76 created they own mirrors, so at the time a feel packages where handle by them and all the rest by the normal ubuntu mirrors, so steam would ask for a different gtk version them the desktop so the pop shop would refuse to install steam whitout updating the mirrors, if linus had clicked on the dropdown menu and choose the flatpak version none of this would happen, but instead he used the terminal and ignored the warning because was the first time that he used
Honestly, I cannot blame him for that. This requires deep knowledge of the subject and the fix is not easy to spot.
I have been using Linux for a decade now on desktop and server systems and he’ll, even I would probably have told the package manager to go do it’s shit and borked my system. Because getting weird errors, warnings and conflicts is just “the Linux experience” ™
I hope more flatpack based distris come up or stuff like nix gains some following. This would make it a lot easier for people with less knowledge to get into the Linux space without much technical knowledge or the possibility to Bork the system (to a degree). Meanwhile classic distros can serve the more technically inclined audience.
I also don’t really judge him, but i think that even thought the ideia was to go as a complete newbie to linux he should at least do some real research or whatch a feel youtube videos about before doing the challenge, i first installed ubuntu and after a afternoon i don’t really wanned to keep using linux, them i watched some videos and started to use pop os on a live usb, after 2 days of using it instead of booting normally on windows 10 i wiped windows and never looked back
It works either way, apt or apt-get.
I know but the command he used was apt-get.
I remember apt had a colored progress bar unlike apt-get. Don’t know how it is now, using pacman and yay
Did you just say “i use arch btw” whithout saying it?
Wasn’t my intention, but I guess I did
I love how unnecessary it was to the overall context lol
yay gang
What is this referencing? In which video did this happen?
One of the Linux challenge videos. Either part 1 or 2.
The Linux community loves hating on Linus for this, but honestly, it was a bug that popos has now fixed, and the video genuinely shows how difficult Linux can be for the average user.
Found it, thanks.
Can you link? edit https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M
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I’m sorry, but blaming him for breaking his os because he didn’t check for updates first is ridiculous. The difference is that in Windows, the entire os wouldn’t break if you decided to install steam first. If it did, you would blame Microsoft. Same with MacOS.
It’s not his fault. It was a bug in the os, which is the fault of the pop_os! developers. You also can’t blame him if the command he used was wrong, because Linux users love giving terminal commands to people without explanation and refusal to explain how it could also be done via the UI if preferred.
You know what the better reaction would be? To criticise the developers for allowing a bug like that to make it into production. To explain to the user that it happened to that it’s not their fault, it was a rare bug, and was super unfortunate. Offer them an explanation, maybe suggest other distros that are more polished, and help them with their Linux journey.
Blaming them for something that wasn’t their fault isn’t welcoming, isn’t going to want to make them want to stay, and will make sure they think twice before trying again.
Not sure why you’re upset that he didn’t want to use Fedora? That’s the beauty of Linux, there are plenty of distros. That’s what sets Linux apart. Maybe you don’t want to use Ubuntu because of it’s layout, or a different distro because it’s red and you like green. No matter the reason, who cares? Guess what? I’ve had more issues with Fedora than any other distro I’ve ever used. If you asked me, I’d say Linux Mint is the best ootb experience, and I’m sure someone else will tell me that Linux Mint fucked their wife and killed their cat and that I’m a stupid racist for thinking that.
Edit: also want to make it clear that windows and MacOS both have their own issues, some of which are really bad. No OS is perfect, and I think we should stop being weirdly defensive over a damn operating system. If one of them was leagues better, multiple OSes wouldn’t exist.
Obligatory I use Arch, BTW
But dependencies for proprietary software are part of why I use the Steam Flatpak. It doesn’t matter what other community and AUR packages are installed, the Steam Flatpak is unaffected by that for the most part.
I really do think something like Flatpak could lead to more Linux adoption. Package management played an important role but sometimes it can be a hindrance IMHO
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You blamed him for a bug in the OS because he didn’t do things exactly how you think they should be done. You didn’t give an opinion, you shifted blame.
Sorry you feel like having a discussion is toxic, but telling someone you stopped reading half way through and saying goodbye is, in fact, toxic behavior.
I’m fine not having a discussion with you further.
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If I install an operating system from an image built within the last 20 years, it being able to install a single piece of software is a perfectly reasonable expectation.
Yes, it’s good practice to check for updates first. You do it, I do it. But Linus here represents something special here. He is a technical user but unfamiliar with Linux. If he can cause a system to completely break by simply asking it to install one piece of software in a standard way, then what hope is there for a layman?
Getting on your high horse and talking about the “right” order to do things makes you seem like an elitist looking down on the poor peons who dare to try and use their OS in any other way than the one you deem correct. That’s why people think you’re upset.
Oh, and as for blaming Linus, you did literally say it was Linus’ user error and that he only has himself to blame. Your words, not mine.
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I know you went on a whole thing in the other thread but. There is a reason why Windows has automatic updates and sometimes forces a restart on you. It’s because the average user never update anything. Ever.
For real though, what’s the best way to install steam? I assume it’s the *.deb directly from the site.
Probably through your GUI package manager. I’d be surprised if your package manager didn’t have a native binary or a flatpack.
flatpak install steamFlatpak can’t launch non-steam games via Steam :(
Yeah it can’t
Is there a way to do it without breaking the sandbox? I’ve been looking for a few days for a way to do this without any luck.
What do you mean by breaking the sandbox. You add permissions to let it see other drives if that’s what you mean. Other then that, I just let it see my home and add non steam games. They come up like you would with Windows.
https://github.com/SteamGridDB/steam-rom-manager/issues/254 https://github.com/flathub/com.valvesoftware.Steam/issues/935 https://github.com/flathub/com.valvesoftware.Steam/issues/278 https://github.com/flathub/com.mojang.Minecraft/issues/51
I can’t figure out a way to do it without using flatpak-spawn maybe I should create a thread on Lemmy to see if anyone else knows a way.
You just give it permission to see whatever directory you’re launching the exe from
What do you mean by breaking the sandbox. You add permissions to let it see other drives if that’s what you mean. Other then that, I just let it see my home and add non steam games. They come up like you would with Windows.
I think I’ve read it somewhere that Valve recommends the flatpak. Maybe not, but I would definitely go that route.
Depends on the distro.
pacman -Sy steamdoes the trick in Arch.I prefer my distro’s binary but after the last glibc update I convinced the flatpak version has less problems.
And the flatpack version was thoroughly convinced :)
I recently started thinking like that too after the last glibc update. :)
It’s through the package manager of your distro, apt, pacman, dnf… It has the best integration with the system and other apps installed though the package manager (if there is a gui on your distro, it is the same thing, tho some allow to chose between different sources.
The flatpak version it may also be viable.
Deb is a very bad idea as you wont have the dependencies installed automatically.
Linus was just stupid and did not update pop os after install. Tho he could have updated it and maybe when he did the recording the issues was discovered but not yet fixed. But The issue was already well fixed when he posted the video. I don’t remember how all went.
Nah, you can’t blame the user here champ.
He installed the OS, opened the default software center, and installed a package.
There’s simply no way to justify what happened. I challenge you to find any situation in which installing a package from the Microsoft Store would uninstall critical system packages and also kill the entire GUI.
To be fair, there isn’t an example from the Windows store specifically, because the vast, vast majority of Windows programs are installed via standalone installation packages.
But yes, there was one instance where uninstalling a game would recursively delete the parent directory, up to and including potentially deleting the entire C:\ drive.
Funnily enough, a similar thing happened with Steam as well in the past - though as long as you weren’t running Steam as root it couldn’t delete the whole filesystem, just any files owned by yourself (which is also still incredibly destructive, don’t get me wrong).
Was it the default software center? From my memory of the video, he tried to install Steam through the Ubuntu Software Center at first which failed, and then he found a guide that mentioned using
sudo apt install steamto which apt made him typeYes, do as I sayto confirm the (unfortunate) set of actions it was going to perform.While I still don’t blame Linus, a more apt (ha!) comparison would probably be trying to do something over the CLI instead of through the Microsoft Store.
The inability to install Steam i can blame on PopOS. He could genuinely don’t know that you should update your system first. At the point when he typed yes, do as i say when i first watched i wanted to bang my head against my desk. He clearly didn’t read what was going to happen even when the system tried warning him.
As someone else said no it wasn’t installed though the software manger. It just failed to install though that way.
He went for a guide CLEARLY LABELED AS DANGEROUS MULTIPLE TIMES using the terminal with the “do as I say” command.
Tho this issue shouldn’t have happened, but it happened. And was blocked for a normal install.
He just forced it through a command.
Here : https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M
Go check because it seems you’re too lazy to search for the video
LTT is a fucking moron
It was a bug in the OS
While true, he still did see the prompt saying it would uninstall a bunch of required libraries and powered through.
On any sane system that type of warning is normal to ignore, Windows loves to throw them at you
I like to actually have control over my computer, not to be treated like a child. If you give me a detailed warning and make me type out a string I think it is fair that you continue to do as I say.
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