• Dmian@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Let’s make this clear: Spanish population only grows because of immigration. We have one of the lowest birth rates in the world (see https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/birth-rate-by-country), but allowing immigration has somewhat contained our population decline. Without immigration, our pension and health systems would be unsustainable, unable to cater an aging population. So we have immigration to thank for what you see in that image. Countries with low birth rates and low immigration (like Japan) are actually doomed.

    • Eldaroth@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I guess this is true for a lot of countries on this map where population numbers have increased in the higher two digits. At least it’s also true for Switzerland and yet one of the most popular political parties is actively promoting laws to limit further immigration. Not that this is surprising in the current political environment in Europe where it seems we are seeing a right shift in a lot of governments nowadays.

      • Dmian@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yes, I imagine that is the case for other countries, but I just talked about Spain because that’s where I live, and I know the reality here. Immigration is a completely positive event. We should be really thankful for those immigration waves we had in the past.

    • snooggums@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      That seems to suggest that relying on immigration to support a population is not a sustainable system.

      • Dmian@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Where did you get that from? I’m thanking immigration for helping our population growth. Can you please elaborate where you get that idea from?

        • snooggums@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          What happens if all countries were doing well enough for immigration to slow down? Like not having constant wars and dictatorships?

          What happens if your country becomes less appealing to immigrants, or gets a short surge of anti immigration leadership like the US?

          If an increase in population is necessary to support retirement and your own population can’t sustain that, then you are propping up a system that requires other countries to be worse off. That cannot continue indefinitely.

          • Dmian@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            But I’m not proposing in any way immigration as a path to solve the problem of aging population. That interpretation is solely on you.

            I’m only saying that immigration it’s just a phenomenon that happened (and it’s not happening at the same rate as in the past anymore), and that I’m glad it happened, because if not, we would be in real trouble really soon. I’m just thankful for the immigrants to this country, because it’s them saving our asses (in contrast to people thinking they’re a problem).

            The causes of our aging population are other, and the real solution requires actions that I wish politicians tried to solve. Immigration was just a temporary fix, that we should be thankful for, but it’s not the solution to the problem at all, nor am I proposing it as the solution.

            I think you read too much in my post.

            • snooggums@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              I think you are assuming that my comment was trying to invalidate yours instead of expanding on it with my own observation.

              • Dmian@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                You started your comment with “That seems to suggest…” Well, no, I’m not suggesting anything more than what I said. Just that. And I don’t feel the need to explain anything further. Cheers.

                • snooggums@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  I didn’t say that you suggested anything or that you need to explain anything.

                  Have you had a discussion where people expanded on and added to other people’s comments before or is this a new experience?

          • tetraodon@feddit.it
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            1 year ago

            It will continue in the foreseeable future though.

            World utopia isn’t coming anytime soon, and until then, the EU is better than most of the world under whatever metrics you want to use.

            • snooggums@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              It also means there is a disincentive to help bring up the rest of the world because that would reduce the rate of immigration.

              • tetraodon@feddit.it
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                1 year ago

                Most of the world is an unfixable cesspit of corruption, authoritarianism, and misery. It’s not possible to bring corrupt dictatorships to EU living standards because the power structures in those countries will hijack any effort to do so, using the funds to further concentrate wealth and power.

                The only way that someone in such countries can hope to improve their life is through immigration.

      • Spzi@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        The unsustainable part is having a pension and health system which relies on constant growth.