HRT ie Hormone replacement therapy makes trans people sterile. Also I previously that there have not been credible reports what you have cited are not credible. You yourself acknowledge in your previous comment that what you referenced was based on rumours. Im also willing to bet that those rumours were mostly spread by cis people as there is no credible evidence of these people you mentioned being secretly cis.

No cis person is going to go through the extensive often strenuous process to get on hormones. Which cause sterility as well as physical changes to their body just so that they can rape/abuse women. That is simply not the case. Also whether the crime was committed before or after transition doesn’t matter because ultimately transitioning as a trans person is about identity, not action.

The action is bad but is ultimately unrelated to said persons identity. A cereal killer can be gay but that doesn’t mean that their gayness is contingent or even because of their cereal killer actions. It’s simply part of their identity a coincidence essentially.

Ok so simply put trans people are people which means there will be bad and good people same with cis people. Just because a trans person did a bad thing doesn’t mean they aren’t still the gender they identify as or that they’re secretly cis.

I’m not excusing their actions but simply saying that trans people are still the gender they identify as regardless of their actions just like how gay men are still gay if they do bad things. It’s a matter of identity rather than action.

Another thing to add is that cis women also abuse and rape other women but they don’t get put in men’s prisons right? Trans women are women and should be placed in the prison that matches their gender.

I don’t believe there are any because generally speaking people don’t need to claim to be trans to do so. As I’ve said previously, a sign on a door is not a magic barrier, if someone wants to commit abuse of any kind they can just walk in and do that. All that this anti-trans bathroom etc stuff does is give people a legal pass to challenge a persons cis-ness and harass them that way regardless of if they are actually trans or not.

That is the real concern and there have already been credible reports of this harassment happening to people. Meanwhile there hasn’t been any credible reports of cis people pretending to be trans to abuse people.

Hey so I watched a video that really explains all this really well and figured I’d share it with you. For the record I do think our discussion was fruitful and amicable and that you did actually read what I said.

Anyways here’s the link https://youtu.be/BRg3t7KINzw

I used the stalls that are often in there. Also not every trans woman has that between her legs. Surgery is relatively commonly undergone so there would be no way to tell to the point even gynaecologists assume a person is cis when they’re actually trans unless told before hand.

Regardless I have never had a cis woman be uncomfortable around me in any woman’s space not just change rooms. My experience is not an outlier as I have known many trans women who have used women spaces without issue.

The answer is yes.

I am a transgender woman. I look like a woman, I think like a woman, I have the hormones of a woman, I have experienced the misogyny that women experience, I have used women’s washrooms and change rooms and other spaces for a decade at this point without issue, I have used these spaces along side cis women who knew that I am trans and cis women who didn’t know. There has never been an issue because I am a woman who uses those spaces like any other. I have been socialized like a woman, I feel like a woman, I identify as a woman.

Am I a woman?

Please stop dodging the question. It’s a simple yes or no question that is fundamental to the discussion of trans people’s right to live as they are equally to cis people of the same gender.

The vast majority of science going back to pre-WWII says the answer is yes.

Evidence through link.

https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

Knowing now that the scientific consensus is yes, do you believe that trans women are women?

You didn’t answer the question. Do you believe that trans women are women, yes or no ?

Ok so by claiming that trans women having the equal right to access women’s spaces goes against cis women’s rights you are implying that trans women are the danger. We are not. Also, if a man wants to hurt women in women’s spaces a sign on a door isn’t going to stop him. There is no need for a man to pretend to be a woman to be able to hurt women. They can just do it.

Gendered washrooms etc are the norm, non gendered spaces are not always available. Do you expect a trans woman to use the men’s spaces which puts us at higher risk of danger?

Ultimately the crux of your argument comes down to one simple yes or no question.

Do you believe that trans women are women?

I literally didn’t compare you to a racist. I explicitly said it was an unrelated example that I used to clearly explain my point. Also I said a couple times that I assumed your position on the matter used in that example was not that of a racist.

Please don’t misconstrue my words to support your argument against my right to be able to use changing rooms etc that match my gender. I’m going to be clear here I hope that you simply misunderstood what I wrote. That is what I am assuming.

I don’t think me wanting to use women’s change rooms / bathrooms counts a “special consideration” as you put it. I am a woman so I should be allowed to use them same as every other woman. That is equal treatment. That is what trans people want. I as a woman do not want to be forced into men’s spaces where I am placed at risk of harassment / assault.

If you are going to argue that I should not be given equal treatment after considering my words then I can only assume that you do not think of me as a woman. If and only if you continue to argue your same point. There would be no other way for it to be understood in that case. If you don’t argue that point further then please disregard this section.

If you want to protect women then you must include trans WOMEN as well as we are women. If you want to support my right to exist then please support my right to not be forced into men’s spaces where I, a woman, would be at risk of danger.

Replying as an actual trans woman here. Claiming that both sides are equally valid or have equal issues is disingenuous. When one side is simply asking to be allowed to exist equally with everyone else and the other side is using the courts to take away the rights of the other that is not equal. When one side is advocating for what is already the middle ie. equal treatment and respect for all. You cannot equate them as equally problematic and you cannot compromise.

As an unrelated but clear example of this the half way point between equality for all and slavery is segregation / apartheid.

I’m sure you would agree that equating the want for equal freedom and the want to enslave others as equal is* problematic. This is a clear example of what I’m trying to convey here.

I just want to live my life, trans people like me just want to live our lives as who we are with equal respect for everyone. Sadly there are a lot of people in this world who would rather see me and others like me as erased, dead and gone. I’m sure you can understand that it can get very difficult to tolerate mistakes and confusion from others sometimes considering how much our very right to exist has come under constant and severe attack at a government and court level.

We are only human same as you same as everyone else. We’re not saints we don’t have infinite patience and it is extremely stressful to deal with on a daily basis.

So please do not equate our frustration and exhaustion as equally problematic to the hatred and wrath of those who want to erase our very existence.

I appreciate the nihilistic positivity I really do. I’m a disabled person who relies on medication to help me live. If war breaks out I’m especially vulnerable and can’t exactly fight. I am worried but mostly just frustrated that I haven’t seen anyone even really mention what I’ve brought up. I feel it’s important to acknowledge these possibilities so we aren’t caught unprepared. I’m doing my best to keep living my life without being consumed by it. I’m glad you’re seeing it the way you are.

The only reply I really have is. This is Trump we’re talking about. I do want to recognize that every time people have said greater interests and logic will prevail they haven’t. Not when it comes to him. They certainly didn’t for Putin with Ukraine. And if rumours are to be believed Trump is on his side or even following his playbook / guidance.

I’ve always been a bit do a realist and a hope for the best expect/prepare for the worst kind of person. I don’t think what I’m saying is a stretch and I dearly wish to be proven wrong.

You and many people say similar things but you’re all overlooking the simple fact that we are allied to Greenland. They have not ruled out military invasion of Greenland and have just recently doubles down on the rhetoric. What do you think will happen when Greenland / the Danish government invoke NATO allies to come to their defence? We will be at war with the US but it won’t be them declaring war on us it will be us declaring war on them in rightful defence of our allies. Then they will have “full justification” to invade us back. They won’t ever be justified to be clear but it will be the perfect excuse to sell to their public and armed forces.