That’s good news (hopefully). Thanks!

Will keep an eye out, but community is remaining locked until the clarifications are published and deemed acceptable.

I explained that in another comment: https://lemmy.world/comment/14408131

My stance has always been keep the server/instance rules generic / non-micromanaging and let the communities do what they do (so long as they’re in compliance with the generic server rules). That’s pretty much been LW’s stance until yesterday.

Re: fiefdoms

Many times I’ve seen new communities spring up as alternatives and people slowly (sometimes rapidly) moved over organically. That’s one of the big benefits to the Fediverse. My experience has been that, letting the Fediverse do what it does, the problems will generally sort themselves out as bad mods/instances are identified and avoided with alternatives springing up to fill the gap.

I’m with you in spirit, but I can’t and won’t endorse that kind of behavior (not even saying that to cover my ass; I’m truly against it).

However, should that occur organically (and it will), feel free to shine a “I told you so” spotlight onto it.

As I understand it, yes, that is the intent of the policy. However, as-written and presumably as it is to be enforced for all mods LW-wide, it has wide-reaching implications with worse side-effects.

Basically, the proper tool is a scalpel and they brought out a machete.

I never said I was against the goal they were trying to achieve, just the means by which they’re using to achieve it.

I’m mostly with you, though with a much more strict stance against allowing misinformation/conspiracy/etc. On that:

The beauty of the fediverse is that I also have no problems with someone setting up a competing community that takes a much less tolerant perspective and has a rule that participation is conditional on agreement to certain perspectives.

That’s what this new moderation policy abolishes: That competing community is now apparently required to platform misinformation, propaganda, et al while also being more or less required to spend time refuting every claim lest it stand unchallenged. As I said in the announcement post, it’s holding the doors open and saying “no, after you” to gish-galloping the mods and platforming every crackpot conspiracy, propaganda, “civil” hate speech, etc so long as they’re civil and not spamming it.

Yeah, the Fediverse allows for “just moving to another instance” but for the largest Lemmy instance to force a “both sides” stance on its entirety is a slap in the face.

Vote manipulation is common in Lemmy. While the actor described in that post has changed tactics (and that post barely scratched the surface), they certainly did not stop. All they need to do is boost the misinformation and downvote the rebuttals when previously, the misinformation would just be correctly modded.

Yep, sure do! But only on my own instance in accordance with our polices; communities I moderate elsewhere are modded according to those instances’ rules and TOS.

If someone does nothing but give out downvotes (the upvotes-given to downvotes-given ratio threshold for the automated ban is quite generous), then they’re contributing nothing but negativity and shitting on things for everyone else. If everything here displeases them so much, they can and should go somewhere else.

I stand by (and have reviewed) every automated “Mass downvoting” ban my automod has issued.

It definitely does not seem like a well thought out solution for sure.

It’s an option, sure. But (at this point anyway) it’s more about making a statement and trying to bring visibility to the horrible side effects of this new policy.

I’m not trying to burn bridges, lol, merely shine a light and hope the LW Team sees it.

That’s basically the long-form of how I feel about it. Honestly, I was having a hard time staying composed while I responded to the announcement thread; I was livid and absolutely shaking.

A sad two sentence story…of my life lol

I had to resolve the post, but it’s there now.

I don’t notice a lot of stuff disappearing during federation with LW, but when I do notice it, I just un-upvote my comment and re-upvote it. Seems to kick it in gear. Never tried that with posts, but might work similarly.

I can see this post from .world. Federation looks to be pretty close to in-sync (those activities behind values are only estimates since not necessarily all of those would be bound for lemm.ee). In my experience, “activities behind” value from .world less than 500 is as pretty close to fully in sync as you can really get (sometimes it drops lower, but average for me is 200-500).

Do you have a specific post/comment link that isn’t showing up on .world?

Oh, yay. The vote is heavily toward making the “no US politics” rule permanent. As an American, I am happy to see that. I’m so sick of [our] politics everywhere, so I can’t imagine the rest of the world being any less sick of it.

FYI: I just added my DO account to the team so I have a local account for seeing reports (which apparently don’t federate). I’ll just switch between all 3 to check in.

Edit: I did that from LW, but it either hasn’t yet federated to DO or it got lost in federation. I’ll give it a while to catch up on its own, but may need to have you do it “locally”

Ah, yeah, I think I knew that (or realized it anecdotally) though wasn’t aware there was an actual bug for it . I just switch between my two accounts to check throughout the day which works around that, but those communities are all on LW.

I guess I could just switch between all 3 and use my DO one for this (no big deal since I can have multiple profiles).

Yeah, Midwest doesn’t seem too bad overall. I wasn’t aware of the admin’s stances on things until recently, though. I’m not considering defederating or blocking them or anything like that, though the stance on calling for violence and doxxing has caused me some policy problems.

I think using your LW account should be fine? Or perhaps we should add both your dubvee.org and LW accounts

Probably just the LW one would be fine. I already switch back and forth regularly to mod a couple communities on LW anyway.

then go through the procedure above in order for you to be merely a mod but not at the top

I made that a lot easier to handle in Tesseract through the mod team management panel, but the one thing I’m not clear on is if only admins can transfer the community or if the “top mod” can as well (I think both, but don’t hold me to that). There’s also a Lemmy bug where “top mod” can do things that admins even can’t (which i need to submit an issue for, but I forget the exact circumstances to trigger it, and it’s annoying to recover from lol).

Beehaw for most of my time on the Fediverse, but now that I do I kinda like it - and yet don’t (or at least am not entirely sure) at the same time, b/c I saw for instance people advocating for actual murder there

Yeah, I’m not sure. I squash that kind of rhetoric pretty quickly locally (regardless of who it’s directed at). I do know they mod heavily, but there definitely seems to be some lag (I don’t think they have community mods; the admin team is also the mod team for all their communities). I don’t think I ever checked back on some of the stuff I reported to see how it was handled.

But I don’t know if you would be able to see those from dubvee.org?

No, I would have to federate with an instance to see content from there, even if it’s relayed through a third instance (DO in this case).

I don’t block any users on my LW account, and Tesseract has some safeguards in place so that if you block an instance the content from that instance still shows up in communities you’re a moderator of (e.g. I did block .ml on my LW account, and I typically don’t see any content from its users except in the communities I moderate there).

Though there does seem a need for a truly, fully USA-wide community as well,

Yeah. There was a thread earlier today about a new LOTR meme community and in the comments there, some concerning things were brought to light about midwest (where the main LOTR memes community lives), so I’m happy to see an alternative elsewhere.

So Discuss.Online can help there - like dubvee.org it even lacks the name “Lemmy” that can conjure up thoughts of the tankie origins of the software (a saga that many Redditors are familiar with - I at first strongly hesitated to join it myself, though

Yeah, plus it doesn’t add extra load to LW; there’s often significant federation delay to many instances. I do have a Discuss Online account, but I already switch back and forth to my LW account to mod other communities, so it makes more sense to use that one, though I can easily switch between all 3 if the DO one would be the preferred one to use.

Heh, my home instance is closer to Beehaw than LW or DO since we’re a lot heavier moderated and some of the more extreme takes / users are kept in check (like Beehaw, I’m going for a chill / safe vibe rather than being more general purpose, “as long as it’s not illegal” free-for-all). Not throwing shade at either, just different goals is all. So, I don’t really mod with my “home” account since there’s just too many blind spots.