These kind representations do cause body image problems in men. Some more conscious toy manufacturers did redesign their action figures to look more like actual body builders, even if that is still not how soldiers and other combatants look like in real life (for the most part at least). Some actors dehydrate themselves for shirtless scenes.
They take steroids before filming these movies. It is no secret. You can’t achieve that in a few months, that’s 100% steroids backed by a team of experts who are giving them the best products in the exact doses they need.
But do you think this is less realistic than how women are depicted in movies? Because that is what the meme seemingly is trying to say.
I think what the meme is trying to say is “people in the media portray an unrealistic standard of beauty, it’s not just limited to women”.
It’s not really saying one is worse than the other.
But why does it have to mention that “it is not limited to women”? And why do people then complain that people start writing about women issues in the comments when that is literally what the meme is doing?
Why shouldn’t it? Is it not something people should be aware of?
The meme is just highlighting how the unrealistic standard of beauty is an issue for both genders, but some feminists make it sound like it’s only a woman issue.
I also don’t see complaints about people talking about women’s issues, at most there’s complaints about people belittling men’s issues.
I just don’t understand why a lot of men online only seem to be able to discuss this sort of thing in a context of what women or feminists are supposedly doing. If it really is about men’s issues and not against women, feminism, or belittling women’s issues, than why mention women in the first place?
Because there is a huge chunk of feminists who perpetrate misandry in the open and are praised for it. Because TERFs exist. Modern feminism has done so much “reverse sexism” that some feminists avoid calling themselves as such in order not to be associated with those people.
Not to mention, if someone started talking about body positivity issues for men without mentioning women at all people would come swarming and say “women have it WAY worse!” like it’s happening in this thread. Is it only acceptable to talk about it if it’s prefaced with “modern society has a huge issue with female body standards, but”? And people would probably find a way to complain about that wording as well.
A huge chunk of feminists are pereptrating hatred of men and are praised for that?
I don’t think we share a reality. Unless with a “huge chunk” you mean one hateful twitter post by one individual or whatever you are referring to.
Otherwise please show to me a few examples where feminists perpetuate hatred towards men. Otherwise I assume you were tricked by some Andrew Tate video into believing there is a conspiracy against men by female raptors in the shadows or something.
So the meme is basically anti-feminist? Complaining about women talking about the female body image presented in media while not also focusing on male body image?
I think what the meme is trying to say is that a superhero with a prehensile, tentacle like penis is setting unrealistic body expectations. Given the tongue in cheek nature of such a claim, and the photo chosen (bottom left of the meme) I’d imagine it’s partially a satirical jab at the kinda person intimidated by Chris Pratt’s abs (as well as just a self-acknowledged shitpost).
But some of the chat in this thread defintely demonstrates that some folks (mostly m’en I’d presume?) don’t seem to understand the vast difference between body image expectations for men and women in contempary culture.
It’s noticable watching old movies and TV that when the sex symbol takes off their shirt they have a well built but normal body. The modern crustacean look is rather bizarre.
modern crustacean look
Larry the Lobster?
Old like what? Rocky 4?
Like 007 Sean Connery
Bruce Willis in Die Hard is similar, like you can tell he’s in good shape but he still looks like a normal person.
60s James Bond had a dad bod.
this comment section reads like a twitter exchange and it’s fucking mind numbing
I guess the masses are indeed immigrating from Reddit.
Well it is in the shitpost fed
The internet is a battleground of ideas.
Yikes the anti-feminist takes in this thread lol
Men do not experience body policing in even remotely similar ways to women. If that fact offends you you probably don’t actually understand how misogyny functions.
The standard of “very good body” is higher for women, sure, but the standard of “good enough body” for women is much, much lower than the one for men.
The first one is useful if you want to be an actor or model, the second if you want to find a partner for life. Guess which of the two is more relevant for the average person.
Your body affects your life in many more ways when you’re a woman. My body affects my employment, it affects me whenever I go anywhere in public, it affects my relationships with friends with family and with coworkers. It’s open season to make comments about my body, regardless of if I’ve got a “very good body” or not. Harassment of women is the norm. It’s not attached to perceived attractiveness, at least not in that only those deemed very attractive suffer sexual harassment and assault. We all suffer in this, and over a lifetime starting as a literal child it totally dehumanizes you. Being lesser is a woman’s place, because all society will ever focus on is our bodies and how they relate to men. We don’t even get to be people, just game pieces surrounding men only relevant in whatever use we have to them. Misogyny is a cornerstone of our society itself. It’s baked into our politics, our tradition, our history, our legal system, our families, It’s everywhere. And thats why comparing the way men and women experience body standards and policing doesn’t work. The scale isn’t even close to the same, nor is the severity.
Being lesser is a woman’s place, because all society will ever focus on is our bodies and how they relate to men. We don’t even get to be people, just game pieces surrounding men only relevant in whatever use we have to them.
Ok, now this is just plain overdramatizing. We’re not in the 19th century anymore, on paper women have every right men have in the whole first world, plenty of corporations are built with the main purpose of providing pleasant experiences to women and a lot of women have been in very high positions of power. Women ARE people just as much as men according to the huge majority of people, and those who don’t think so are usually unlikeable by men and women alike.
Misogyny is very much an issue in the modern society because its roots were in misogyny and you don’t change thousands of years in a century, but we’re moving very fast. I can get that your physical appearance can make a difference in whether you get hired in some companies (and if it does, you probably dodged a bullet), but to say that in modern society women “don’t get to be people” is insulting to all the progress humanity has done.
I’ve lived it myself, listen to women and read the studies and surveys on these things. On paper means nothing, especially when women are unequal in ways the law does not even account for. In my hometown nearly half of all women have been sexually assaulted. I rarely meet a woman who hasn’t experienced any sexual harassment or assault, many experience it before they’re even adults. Girls and women are still suffering, in many ways things have barely changed at all. Yes we can work jobs now, yes we can vote. But even people who think it’s wrong continue to perpetuate misogyny anyway, misogyny exists everywhere in everyone across society. We all get indoctrinated as children into it, and it takes a lot to deconstruct all the propaganda we’re fed.
Society has made some progress, but honestly not very much. Women don’t even have human rights in the US. In terms of culture, in terms of actual people and their actual beliefs, we have actually changed very little in the last 50 years. People have always hated women and that has not changed as much as you seem to think it has. Again, I’d encourage you to listen to the stories of women when they talk about the way society continues to discriminate against them. I’d encourage you to frequent women’s forums online and read what we talk about and what horrifying realities we live in.
In terms of culture, in terms of actual people and their actual beliefs, we have actually changed very little in the last 50 years.
We’ve changed “very little” since the time of these ads? When there were still places in Europe where women couldn’t vote? When marry-yor-rapist laws were still common? In those years where we had the first female UK prime minister, the first female German chancellor, the first female US vice president and so on? Come on.
Sexual harassment is very much a problem in modern society, and way too many misogynists still exist, but to say that women are still “not people” and that we’re not moving forward in recent years is definitely an exaggeration. Women from 50 years ago probably wouldn’t believe it if you told them all the progress we’ve made in the meantime.
The dominant structure of the patriarchy has never changed. Women still earn less, disproportionately suffer sexual and physical violence, still face constant policing of our bodies, still face patriarchal attitudes in men and our friends and our families, were still expected to have children and marry men and we face prejudice and discrimination if we are unwed and have no children. This entire conversation has been principally about American power structures, but similar ones exist around the world. Women can’t even get safe health care in America. Women are legally not afforded the same rights as men in America, not that the legal system is the sole metric by which we measure inequality. We are still expected to be homemakers, still face sexual harassment in our homes in our workplaces in education and from our friends. We still get assaulted by men at staggeringly under reported rates. The ruling class is almost entirely men. The ruling class is almost entirely patriarchal. Rapists still barely suffer any punishment for their crimes, not even 10% of rapists ever see any kind of consequences for their actions.
You are vastly overestimating how much society has changed. 50 years ago we had no right to safe health care, and once again today we don’t. 50 years ago our mother’s were being beaten and sexually assaulted by their partners at sickening rates, and still we are today. 50 years ago women were paid less than men, and so we are today. I could go on. Nominally blatant hatred towards women is less tolerable in today’s media, but its still tolerated and present in a lot of it. Our actual lives, our actual experiences, our suffering at the hands of misogyny has changed very little from 50 years ago. I mentioned in another comment, but I briefly worked with kids at a youth center. And I can say with certainty that the trend isn’t even better with their generation. Systemic change was always required to solve systemic issues, and we have never even come close to systemic change with regards to misogyny. That would mean deconstructing one of the cornerstones of American society and culture, and you’ve seen how any attacks on American society or culture are perceived. Our concerns are always dismissed and our proposal for change always falls on deaf ears by those who see no problem with our suffering.
So just because crimes against women still occur we haven’t improved at all? It’s not an improvement until there is absolutely zero crimes being committed against women?
Again, you can’t expect that to happen in a century. Crimes against women have been taken much more seriously in recent years, hell, some of them weren’t even considered crimes 50 years ago. Prejudices and patriarchal attitude has also been getting less and less intense, as people, both male and female, realized they’re generally harmful to everyone. Things have gotten better, are getting better and hopefully will get even better as more and more “relics of the past” leave this world and newer generations take over.
This is very exaggerated
How much time would you say you dedicate to investigating men’s issues vs women’s issues?
As a woman and my friend group being mostly women anything that affects women I hear about. I have listened plenty of times to men talking about the problems they face. I’m aware of the challenges imposed on men by society, many of which are directly related to and affected by misogyny and toxic masculinity. I’m not a sociology researcher by any means, I see studies I come across and listen to people talk about problems they face. I have my own personal experiences with men and those of my friends family and partners past and present.
I don’t take issue with discussion of men’s issues, thats objectively good. It does not have to be to the dismissal of misogyny though.
As a woman and my friend group being mostly women anything that affects women I hear about. I have listened plenty of times to men talking about the problems they face.
Could you put a number on it? Like… for every 10 studies/articles on women’s issues you read, how many men’s issues studies would you be reading? 10 to 10? 10 to 5? 10 to 2?
Or let’s say you’ve spent idk… 200 hours looking into women’s issues, talking to women, etc… How many hours have you listened to men, or researched their issues? 200:200, 200:100, 200:50? (not counting debates) Your best ballpark.
Like how many men’s forums are you subscribed to?
This assumes women on average are as interest in “just sex” as men are. I don’t care for men thinking my body is just good enough for sex.
I mean, in a relationship, what else do you need a body for? The main thing that keeps two people interested in each other is the personality, as long as the bodies are “good enough” to sexually stimulate your partner there’s not much more they’re needed for. Hell, for some that isn’t even a requirement.
But it doesn’t make sense to complain about women supposedly having higher standards when men and women seem to have, on average, different expectations towards a relationship? I would rather be alone than being with a person who just finds my body good enough. For many men this seems to be different.
I always thought the “different expectations” prejudice about relationships was more about average men wanting a “body to fuck” that’s also a pleasant person and average women wanting a pleasant person that’s also a “body to fuck” (you know, the old adage about push-up bras and lies).
I don’t know if it’s also about how much is your body attractive to your partner, to me it seems like an unnecessary requirement and kind of “objectifying yourself”. Like, if a person is in love with your personality and finds your body simply “attractive”, is that not good enough for a relationship to you? That situation is like hitting a jackpot for most men I know.
It is objectifying towards yourself. And it stems from the fact that in media and our society in general women are valued by their looks. There are very few examples for likeable female characters, for example, who aren’t also beautiful and young. It’s a complex issues and that’s why it is especially questionable to produce such a meme.
It is objectifying towards yourself.
Then why would you do that? If you recognize it’s not right to expect that, why would you specifically want a partner that absolutely loves your body?
There are very few examples for likeable female characters, for example, who aren’t also beautiful and young.
Because, as we’ve been saying, most characters (whether males or females) in fiction are beautiful. There’s also very few examples of likeable male characters that aren’t also beautiful.
You might have a point with the age but I’d attribute that to historical Hollywood stars being mostly male, as more popular actresses get old we’ll definitely see more likeable old women.
Unfortunately there are too many “open-minded” and “open-minded”-adjacent people who have huge blindspots to their own hypocrisy and philosophical paradoxes. I’ve met so many IRL and net-folk who are lefty “activists” who are huge fucking racists and douchebag misogynists. Extinction Rebellion for example is full of them. I get a bad taste in my mouth whenever I remember certain interactions with them.
I think that might be related to whether someone sees people as good and bad, or as being capable of doing good and bad things.
From how I see it, classifying people as just good and bad is very reductive in that you assume that bad people do bad things with bad intentions and the opposite for good people. That means that if you’re certain that you’re a good person, you don’t need to question your own actions or motives because you can’t do bad.
If you however see people as capable of making good or bad actions with good or bad intentions, you should realize that people you see as good can do bad things and vice versa. That means you should always examine your own motivations and your own decisions to make sure you’re doing the right things for the right reasons.
I personally believe this is why it is so common among certain activist groups to harbor some absolutely atrocious beliefs that seem contrary to what they’re working for.
That makes a lot of sense. I guess it’s always a matter of education in the home and otherwise. Critical thinking and self-analysis seem to be difficult to engender when there’s a culture of accepted vertical hierarchy. I don’t think it’s wrong to say capitalist philosophical leanings create emotionally and philiosophically lazy individuals. The true laziness is always in the opposite direction of the espoused morals of work culture.
Man, fuck extinction rebellion and their transphobic religious prosthelytising
They’re like the Catholic Church of environmental activism.
And both cis men and cis women don’t experience body policing in even remotely similar ways to nonbinary people. Most women don’t need a letter from a psychiatrist costing thousands of dollars to get permission to have a body they can enjoy.
Yes, I am aware of transphobia and discrimination against nonbinary people.
I know you are, but there’s plenty of gibletheads in this thread who ought to be told it
Probably my new favorite word there lol :P
Dear men: stfu, you are not allowed to have any problems. Get back to your stoicism.
Sincerely, Feminists who claim to care about men.
Nah, men can and do have problems. This post is an example of a man problem. There are people on this post trying to claim that men and women suffer equally in this regard and arguing with people who are pointing out that this is wrong.
Men suffer from toxic body standards and would greatly benefit from body positivity and better representation in media. But men aren’t (as an entire class of people) getting harassed as 10 year olds by 40 year old men making comments about their bodies. Men aren’t (as an entire class of people) having relatives make open comments about the size of their secondary sex characteristics and their bodies in general. As a class you don’t experience this. Some individuals might, I’ve rarely met women who did not experience body policing from their earliest memories, ive rarely met women who have never experienced sexual harassment. The statistics are crystal clear in this regard.
Again, body positivity and better representation for diverse body types would be great for men too. No one is saying otherwise. Even that isn’t enough for women, because institutional misogyny exists at all levels of society and in nearly all people in society. Even well meaning and otherwise progressive people can and are misogynist. Even your family and friends are. Its impossible to simply change one thing. It requires a society wide change in tolerance for bigotry.
Have you ever heard of “two for flinching”? That was (I hope) a thing back in my school days, whereby another boy would mime a physical attack, like a punch to the face, or body slam. When you instinctually recoiled, the other boy would delightedly proclaim, “two for flinching,” and punch you hard in the arm, twice. The message was clear.
Men as a class certainly do get policed by boys, girls, and adults about affect, height, weight, voice change, et cetera. I say this not to dismiss or downplay what girls experience, but to say that certainly happens. In fact, I’m certain that it’s two sides of the same coin, and it all needs to go away.
No, the ruling class of men is not made to suffer as a class of men. There is no power structure against men.
My other comments more than explain it.
But men aren’t (as an entire class of people) getting harassed as 10 year olds by 40 year old men making comments about their bodies. Men aren’t (as an entire class of people) having relatives make open comments about the size of their secondary sex characteristics and their bodies in general
/*Pokes circumcised dick.
/*Looks at the countless men living their lives recieving no emotional support.
/*Looks at male suicide rates.
/*Looks at male domestic abuse rates.
/*Looks at history of men getting lynched.
/*Looks at what happens when a man wears a bun, has long hair, has piercings, has any sort of distinguishing features.
/*Looks at classic stereotypes of “fat stupid man”
/*Looks at people casually calling men fat.
/*Looks at stats showing men are more then twice as likely to face assault in public, are twice as likely to experience assault causing bodily injuries, are twice as likely recieve major injuries…
Like how you can look at the male suicide rates and just “nah there’s nothing deeper here” is beyond me.
I never said that men do not suffer in any way, I said that women’s body image issues are systemic ones that affect us for all our lives and from nearly everyone in our lives. It happens to every woman. Men’s body image issues are not systemic ones. Body shaming is a thing, but its not a social institution to severely sexually harass and assault men and boys. Almost every woman will experience sexual harassment and assault to some degree. It affects the entire class of women.
So a bunch of men experience the same thing completely independently from each other, and you’re here just assuming there aren’t systemic processes at play? Like do you just think men have some biological affinity for suits and ties? or Jeans and T-shirts? Or it’s just a coincidence or what? Like we live in a world of cause and effect, everything you see in society is a matter of systemic influences.
There are systemic problems for men as well. This conversation has gone largely beyond its scope, that being the way that body image issues for women are unique and particularly abhorrent. Misogyny is a system that also affects the lives of men by devaluing specific activities, clothes, opinions, personality traits etc. that society associates with women and girls. It reinforces misogynistic principles and affects the lives of women too. Men should be allowed to dress how they want to (so should women), work what jobs they want to, present themselves however they want to, and so on. All those things also affect women and the majority of them are based around discrimination towards women. “Pink is girly and therefore boys shouldn’t like pink” only functions if you think that being girly is bad or worse or lesser.
But there’s lots of systemic issues in society. Misogyny affects the entire class of women directly and the entire class of men indirectly. There are other systems that devalue men such the prison industrial complex, the military industrial complex, rape culture that discourages male victims from coming forward, and the wage slavery of late stage capitalism. Those things also affect women. And intersectional feminism examines the way that those systems interact and build upon one another. Misogyny is one of the most abhorrent things man has ever created, and me and all my friends live with and struggle against misogyny every single day. I think the scale of the problem is hard to understand if you don’t talk to a lot of women about their struggles. And when we do speak up more often than not we’re barely acknowledged at all, look at the backlash to misogyny in video games or the backlash to the epidemic of rape on college campuses. Those problems have never adequately been addressed in any capacity. When its women’s issues a quarter of society listens and cares enough to acknowledge the problems we face, half of society is ambivalent and does not react at all, and the remaining quarter actively believe in misogyny.
Can you define your use of misogyny?
Piss off with the oppression olympics please.
That phrase is meaningless lol, what part of my comment are you saying that to? The horrifying things that women experience every single day? Is the lived experiences of women and girls “oppression olympics” to you?
Is the lived experiences of women and girls “oppression olympics” to you?
Yes! Literally yes! You’re close to getting it!
“Women have it worse” is participating in oppression Olympics and it’s belittling men’s problems. I am not disputing the facts of how bad women have it. I don’t think anyone in this thread is.
I’m saying it’s irrelevant to the conversation at hand, and at BEST it’s a distraction.
This isn’t a men’s space. This is a public forum. I’m allowed to respond to anti feminism here and I will. That’s your own problem if you do not like it. And you’re openly using anti feminist nonsense yourself, shocking you didn’t like my initial comment.
True, you’re allowed to come in here and pick a fight if you want to but I don’t see why you would want to.
So you mean, this meme should piss off? Because it is what started the oppression olympics.
It never said that womens issues didnt matter
Only if you read it as “women’s issues don’t matter because men also have issues” which is honestly a problematic place for your mind to go. And clearly not the intent.
I am pretty sure that’s the punchline of the meme. “Women say they are unrealistically portraited in media, but look at how men are shown!”. That’s the oppresion olympics you pretend to be against, is it not?
This is not what anybody is saying, except for the meme bit towards women. Did you read the top line on it?
It’s absolutely the tone. You’re not allowed to complain because we women have it worse. That’s the message that’s being sent across right now.
Men do not experience body policing in even remotely similar ways to women.
That is combative, dismissive, and by the way totally wrong. If the feminists in this thread actually gave a shit about men, they’d be listening, not lecturing. They came here to pick a fight.
No, people in this thread were saying that men and women suffer the same from body image policing. Which isn’t true. Like I said in my initial comment, if that offends you then you don’t understand how misogyny works.
people in this thread were saying that men and women suffer the same from body image policing.
Show me the posts.
And not “the same TYPE OF body image policing” because you’re insane if you don’t think that’s the case.
Show me the posts where people say men face the same degree of body image policing
And then explain why, even then, being combative and dismissive is in any way a good idea.
Again, I think you came here to pick a fight, and that offends me because that’s how men’s issues are always silenced.
You can read through the thread yourself, there was a massive comment chain already here when I made my initial comment. I’m not going to read and summarize it for you lol.
I think I’ve already more than explained how women’s body image issues are attached to systemic institutional issues that exist across society in my other comments. Feel free to debate against any points I’ve made, but I’m not going to continue reiterating myself.
I came here to respond to anti feminist takes in the thread and to provide a counter to them.
I think I’ve already more than explained how women’s body image issues
EXHAUSTIVELY, yes. Thank you. We get it. We agree.
Now please, STOP
Dear confused men (hashtag: not all men): You have lots of problems. The vast majority are not caused by women. One of your problems is trying to blame us for many of the harmful things you do to yourselves, or that patriarchy/toxic masculinity does to you. Another problem is loathing it when women try to help you by explaining this to you but it isn’t what you want to hear bc it isn’t stroking your ego (or other bits). So there really isn’t much else to be done - your problems are yours to solve, and all we can do is try some damage control for ourselves while you guys bang your heads against the floor.
Sincerely - Feminists, who care about men, but not to the point of our own destruction any longer.
Thanks for pointing this out. I’m trans and I got sexually harassed for being asexual when I was presenting as a man. Ain’t never happened as a woman. On the other hand, the people who harassed me in the first place were men. It was horrible, but it wasn’t gender warfare, it was just the patriarchy being horrible for men. As a woman, there’s no pressure to enjoy sex. Instead, you’re expected to marry a man you aren’t sexually attracted to and have his kids. It’s a whole different kind of awful, and both kinds of awful are caused by the heteropatriarchy.
One of your problems
Thank you, oh glorious and righteous Angel of Feminism, for educating us lowly male peasants on Our Problems.
No one was blaming you all for shit until you came in here belittling male issues out of nowhere.
Bunch of feminists came in this thread and picked a fight. Piss off.
The meme is belittling feminism and/or women’s issues. If you don’t want to start a discussion, do not post provocative memes. Otherwise live with the discussion that will ensue.
No it wasn’t. It was pointing out that unrealistic body standards for men are never part of the conversation, despite being so blatant.
So you feel like whenever people talk about how there are unrealistic body standards for women they also have to mention and talk about unrealistic body standards for men.
But at the same time you complain about feminists allegedly talking about feminist issues in discussions about men’s issues.
I feel like something doesn’t sound right with that logic…
One of your problems is trying to blame us for many of the harmful things you do to yourselves, or that patriarchy/toxic masculinity does to you.
Ummm… First of all men are not a collective, but aside from that…
Women are complicit in toxic masculinity, and patriarchy, you are aware of that right? Like women have the same ingrained societal baises.
It drives me insane that the academics that created the concept of toxic masculinity would be so friggen sexist in their connotations. That seems like a basic ethical consideration for someone studing gender, but apparently not!
Ideological holes.
Feminists are perfectly capable of recognising toxic femininity and toxic androgyny. The difference between those and toxic masculinity is that toxic femininity encourages violence against women and enbies, toxic androgyny encourages violence against enbies, and toxic masculinity encourages violence against everyone. Violence against everyone is a big deal, maybe a bigger deal than lateral violence. I personally am less able to withstand lateral violence than indiscriminate violence, so I personally have more trouble with toxic femininity. But I understand why some have more of a problem with toxic masculinity.
(Proceeds to watch the subject bang his head repeatedly, injuring himself with the very same arguments he thinks he is making. Pointing out failure to read comprehensively might help, but more likely only increase the intensity by which he injures himself. It is a sad sight, one of many. She must move on.)
pee pee
poo poo
Objectively false
I love the goal post shift!
Feminism: “We need to promote body positivity”
Society promotes body positivity towards women.
Men: “What about us?”
Feminism: “Men don’t experience body policing like women do!”
But… what about body positivity…
This is the shit that confused me about people pushing vaccinations. It’s all “body rights body rights body rights” until someone gets recognition you don’t like.
“Oh but traditionally women have been… etc”
Oh so now we care about traditions? Now suddenly we’re pushing social norms? Now conveniently personal rights, and freedoms don’t matter?
Do you know why feminists suck? It’s because they aren’t actually egalitarian. And worse, they are blinded by their own friggen biases.
I’ve watched feminists chop a fucking guy down, and gaslight him that “it sounds like he hates women” for talking about not getting emotional support in relationships. Dude then got muted. Women calling men trash though? “Ohhh you should know they’re not talking about you. A good man wouldn’t take offense to this”.
Fuck, I’m nonbinary, I date a lot of other nonbinaries. I’ve literally got in arguments with nonbinary feminists sitting there telling me “You have to understand society sees you as a white man”.
Shit is fucked. Just completely fucked.
I am fucking happy to see men getting recognition instead of seeing everything blamed on toxic masculinity.
/rant
Okay, so firstly I never said that body positivity and diverse representation of body types didn’t also need to take into account body image standards for men. I was responding to people in the comments of this post who were essentially saying “body image issues for men” and “body image issues for women” are the same in terms of how they affect men and women respectively. Which isn’t true, and we can easily see why when discussing the systemic issue of misogyny and the way women have their bodies policed throughout their entire lives and by their family friends coworkers peers and society at large including all forms of media. Body image issues for women are related to societal misogyny, and affected by continuous sexual harassment and assault starting when we are children. It happens everywhere, including from your own family.
This continues to this day. A couple years ago I volunteered at a youth group, and can confirm with certainty that the next generation of girls and women are suffering exactly the same. Misogyny is pervasive and girls and women are suffering much the same today as they were 50 years ago, there is just a (somewhat) larger push today to do something about it. Unfortunately there is a nearly equally large push to reinforce misogyny as an institution.
How you’ve been dismissed and told that society “sees you” as a white man is wrong and your experience is unique and should be acknowledged. You maybe have suffered from transphobia, queerphobia, and discrimination and prejudice towards nonbinary people. You should be able to understand the difference in the way discrimination towards men and nonbinary people functions. In that non-binary people come up against constant barriers across all levels of society, that is to say they face systemic institutional discrimination. Much the same, misogyny is not merely one person who hates women. Misogyny is a society that discriminates against women, it is media that perpetuates discrimination against women, it is education and social reinforcement of discrimination against women. Its systemic, its present at all levels and points of society. You have to actively work against it to counteract all the misogynistic propaganda you’re fed.
Men deserve body liberation too, I never said otherwise. But people in this comment thread were saying that body image issues with representation in media are the same for men and women. And that simply isn’t true.
Which isn’t true, and we can easily see why when discussing the systemic issue of misogyny and the way women have their bodies policed throughout their entire lives and by their family friends coworkers peers and society at large including all forms of media. Body image issues for women are related to societal misogyny, and affected by continuous sexual harassment and assault starting when we are children. It happens everywhere, including from your own family.
I have a question! Why is it that when men police men it’s toxic masculinity, but when women police women it’s misogyny?
Anyways I disagree with your entire premise basically because of toxic masculinity. Men are degraded into the ground to the point that they aren’t even willing to self express. If you look at society you’ll see women have countless different, more expressive options for expressing themselves. Yes they recieve criticism, they also recieve support.
Like all I did was paint my nails, and wear bright colours, and yesterday I got called fruity 😂
Like have you ever had to worry that painting your nails could cost you your job?
Im not sure what you’re referring to with the men policing men and women policing women bit. Misogyny is perpetuated by everyone, not exclusively women.
And you’re right the problems of toxic masculinity are important to talk about, a lot of those problems are themselves indirectly related to misogyny. “Painting your nails is girly and therefore wrong” only works if we presuppose that being girly is lesser and wrong. Theres much more to toxic masculinity than just that of course, but a lot reinforces misogyny or is built upon it.
“Painting your nails is girly and therefore wrong” only works if we presuppose that being girly is lesser and wrong.
Not really. It’s also a challenge to the status quo, and people don’t like that in general. By that reasoning, cutting your hair short should’ve been seen as “manly, better and right”, but women who did that were initially frowned upon. Because it’s challenging the status quo, and privileged people who see no issue with the current society see that as a threat to it.
Yes and the status quo is “painting your nails is for girls and therefore wrong for boys”.
Women being discouraged from doing things or looking a certain way or having certain personality traits because those things are “manly” or “boyish” is an aspect of misogyny. Men are the ruling class, women are the subservient class and are not allowed to adopt the guise and the attitudes of the ruling class.
So women not being able to do boyish things is misogyny but men not being able to do girlish things is misogyny too? How does that make sense? You realize there are women perpetrating that too, right? At what point does something turn into misandry in your opinion?
When men police men, they reinforce body images that appeal to the male gaze, I.e. toxic masculinity. When women police women, they reinforce body images that appeal to the male gaze, I.e. misogyny.
I guess
If you look at it thru the lens of the oppression Olympics, it’ll make more sense.
If you are desperate for attention, sympathy works just as well as respect for some of the more pathetic people in our society.
And it absolutely slays me when they refer to Chris Pratt as having a “dad bod” lol
They have to be referring to “Parks and Rec” Chris Pratt, right? Cuz he definitely used to have a dad bod, but he does not anymore.
Chris Pratt used to be well known for never using a spit bucket. His body and career have changed a lot.
What is a spot bucket?
I think they are referring to a spit bucket which is used for the actor to spit out food they’re pretending to eat between takes
Whoops, yeah I fat fingered it. These days I’m too used to autocorrect catching my mistakes!
I have been told I have a dad bod and it does not look like Starlord. It does look like Andy Dwyer at his fattest, lol
Prehensile penis is the unachievable body standard for the dense folk out there
Well it’s not clearly a penis and OP’s link is dead so I think it’s pretty easy to miss if you haven’t watched the show.
Then again, if you haven’t watched the show, you haven’t truly lived.
points at science project that works out 20 hours a day while taking a cocktail of steroids and hormones from a panel of doctors
This is what a normal man should look like.
When asked what character i wanted to be, i have always said tentacle monster. The tentacle monster gets all the hot chics.
I thought it was the prehensile penis from The Boys.
And there’s a sentence I never expected to write out.
It is. That was the origin on of this meme. It was in TheBoys subreddit specifically as a joke about the prehensile penis.
That’s not a regular, gym going tentacle - it had to take steroids to reach that level of physique. Totally unrealistic expectations for us noodles here.
Wonder what steroids they’re using
And don’t forget the intentional dehydration for topless scenes. Hugh Jackman has been very open about that.
Same technique used by body builders I assume during competition.
How does that work?
they kinda gradually stop drinking over 2-3 days, often on the day of the shoot they don’t drink anything, it makes your skin kinda thinner and it helps make your muscles more “ripped”
Oof, that sounds seriously unhealthy. No food for a couple days, sure, most humans can handle that no problem. But no water? Damn.
oh it’s very unhealthy, stresses your kidneys, heart, causee just the worst headaches
Everyone at a bodybuilding competition does this as well. It certainly doesn’t seem good.
It is unhealthy and as far as I can tell no actor is a fan of it
The actor of Green Arrow talked about. The Green Arrow series has some really dedicated scenes.
A healthy, normal-weight adult can fast safely for a week, after that you should get a doctor involved to take blood levels to be on the safe side and take whatever micro-nutrients you get prescribed. The longest fast ever was done by Angus Barbieri, 382 days, on a diet of coffee, tea, sparkling water and supplements (as per doctor’s order). He was an absolute unit going in normal weight people don’t last that long.
Going without water will be deadly in three days or less, no exceptions. Doing it in a climate where you’re not sweating helps but ultimately you have metabolic products to flush out of your system which won’t work without water intake. The body is going to allow poisoning itself before it shuts down, that’s the kind of situation where no matter what you intend to do, at some point you’re going to catch a rabbit with your bare hands, rip of its head, and drink the blood.
Oh, and while I’m at it: Distilled water is safe to drink. Yes, it’s easier to get water poisoning with distilled water as opposed to ordinary but either is an achievement and requires fasting as well at not giving in to that sudden urge to murder your salt shaker. We get the overwhelming majority of our minerals from food, not drinks.
The good ones, under doctor supervision. If youre someone who doesnt think they’re on gear you’re a sweet summer child of the most innocence.
Mostly testosterone for building the muscle base probably, then potentially something like anavar (oral oxandrolone) for a few weeks before filming the shirtless scenes, as orals make you temporarily blow up with water and glycogen. Could be some use of diuretics before filming, too - they definitely use water manipulation/restriction to get that ultra-lean look on the day. I’ve only included drugs you could feasibly get from the doctor, rather than anything too exotic. I do, however, guarantee they all used a significant amount of steroids in addition to the extremely strict diet and training they are very keen to talk about.
My favorite part about all that work is that it’s undone literally that same night, when they eat and drink like a normal person.
The first of the second row, Viagra
Beauty standards for women focus on what men find attractive. Beauty standards for men also focus on what men find attractive.
As far as I know there’s not much difference in beauty canons between women and gay men or men and lesbians. So it’s not really saying much.
That’s not true at all. I’m a nonbinary femme attracted to nonbinary femmes, and I have a similar sense of beauty to many lesbians, when it comes to pretty women. When I see an image of a woman that’s framed to appeal to male sexuality, I feel a sense of revulsion. Sapphic porn is way more respectful, more humanising, and way more hot to myself and lesbians than porn made for straight men.
Women have similar taste in men to gay men, because both are sexually attracted to men. When I say beauty standards for men focus on what men find attractive, I’m talking about the average man. A straight one. Movie stars like The Rock appeal to a straight male power fantasy, rather than to sexual desire. Beauty standards for women are about sex. Beauty standards for men are about power.
OP, the link in your post is dead, I think a lot more people are going to miss it lol
Can I get a non amp link or can you make your post a bit more specific so I don’t have to visit some adhole?
The link would be to The Sun anyway, so amp or not, you’d be better off without it tbh…
They don’t put men like this in movies for women.
Oh yeah, remember that box office failure that no one talked about? Magic Mike? I hope Channing Tatum’s ego has recovered.
Part of that franchise’s marketing is that there aren’t many movies like it.
How do you know that? What makes you say that? Does it even matter why they’re put into movies?
As far as I understand it the image posted does not claim that these bodies are put into movies for women. Personally I would argue that unrealistic bodies are put there for both genders, but perhaps more so for the opposite sex. However, looking at the posted image neutrally and without reading anything into it that’s not there, to the main idea behind the image is to point out the fact that not not only women but also men are depicted unrealistically more often than not. Or at the very least statistically above average.
Some women might lust over this, but that’s not why they are put there. They are the male power fantasy and are added for the benefit of the guys that watch it.
There’s a reason most straight women find Loki more attractive than Thor and I’ve seen guys completely blindsided by that because they see everything through the male gaze.
You’re not right. What’s the proof behind most women finding loki more attractive? Typical terminally online take, so predictable.
As a woman who has mostly straight friends… I don’t know a single other woman that finds Hemsworth more attractive than Hiddleston. And most women I know would also say Andy Samberg is very attractive. I don’t know many men who would admit that Samberg is attractive.
Almost universally bodies in media are designed to appeal to men first and women second. There are exceptions, yes, but they are just exceptions.
I don’t know many men who would admit that Samberg is attractive
Those men haven’t watched Popstar.
Tell me you’ve never talked to a woman without telling me you’ve never talked to a woman…
Ok, so I’m confused about what’s being implied here. Is it that media makers don’t care about making things sexually appealing to straight women? If there’s profit in it, why wouldn’t they?
Seems to me that women in general tend to base less of their attraction on visual or physical cues than men do. But what I don’t understand is why there’s an air of moral superiority around the ways that women judge attractiveness and a condemnation of the way that men judge attractiveness. Non-physical traits might be a better basis for a relationship, but we’re not talking about a relationship. We’re talking about fictional media.
If women responded to sex appeal in the same way that men do, I see no reason why media makers wouldn’t include it. In fact, I would argue in media targeted primarily at women, they do tend to portray men with both physical and non-physical traits that appeal to women. But the fact that superhero physiques might be included mainly to appeal to men in no way counters the argument that it can lead to body-image issues.
Yet they all still drool over them 🤔
Sometimes (the freak lobster men like top right aren’t what most women are into lol), but Hollywood doesn’t give a shit about what women want. This is what men want. It’s all power fantasy.
Nah?
Well maybe.
Usually nah.
Unless?
Nah. They gotta have cute puppy dog eyes at some point. Gotta be more than a husk. Or a himbo. Himbos are good too.
What is the point? Of course a good looking man is good looking. Why wouldn’t I find his body attractive?
You missed the whole point of the post then lmao
Guys guys guys c/lemmyshitpost c/lemmyshitpost
Is nobody going to comment on the bottom right left picture 😂
You mean the bottom left one right?
Yeah, sorry
