• المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.worldOP
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    8 months ago

    Let’s take one example where Israel told Gazans to move south then bombed several areas in the south of Gaza. That’s one of thousands of examples of Israel using proximity shielding or some other pathetic excuse to butcher civilians.

    Civilians and journalists and medical staff are over represented. Especially the ones Israel shot point blank in the head.

    Thanks for the details but they are diverging from the core issue. Maybe someone with more time could tackle them but I won’t. I think your math isn’t based on much, just numbers slammed together. Let’s focus instead on every single time Israel lied to civilians and then neutralized them.

    • steventhedev@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      8 months ago

      It sounds like you won’t be convinced by anything I write, so do it yourself. Pull the numbers yourself. Do the math yourself.

      A good place to start would be comparing the number of bombs dropped on northern Gaza vs. the south.

      • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Yeah, I guess I find it hard to use math to justify murder. The number of expected dead civilians should be very close to zero if Israel wasn’t committing war crimes like having military operations that directly harm civilians.

        So is asking people to go south then bombing the south, is that Israel trying to avoid human casualties? Yes/no would be good.

        • steventhedev@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          8 months ago

          I understand the hesitation. It’s treating humans as numbers. But civilian casualties will always be nonzero in war. Especially when one side is using human shields.

          Asking people to move south is actually proof they want to avoid human casualties. There never was a chance 100% will leave, and sure as shit not in 24 hours. But if 50% leave after 3 days and 80% after a week, then when the eventual ground invasion comes there will be far fewer civilians left who can be killed in the crossfire.

          • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            8 months ago

            But Israel deliberately bombed the South of Gaza knowing too well how many people are there. I find it hard to justify this or wiggle out of it to be honest.

            What about withholding water? Humans could die of dehydration. How were they avoiding human casualties then??

            • steventhedev@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              8 months ago

              If you want to take an absolutist position like declaring the south of Gaza a completely safe zone, then you’re going to be disappointed by reality. Military campaigns never say “this is an absolute safe zone”. It’s always shades of gray.

              Withholding water is absolutely contemptible, which is probably why they walked that back after a day. The bigger issue is the existing infrastructure wasn’t designed for the current population, much less the population doubling overnight, which is why the water distribution is failing. That is 100% on Hamas as they have had full control of the Gaza Strip since 2007. Perhaps if they used pipes to build water and sewage infrastructure instead of building rockets but the past can’t be changed.

              It’s a dangerous situation, and more aid needs to go in than has until now. Thankfully, it seems that will happen soon.

                • steventhedev@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  I try to take people at what they say. Israel says they are shooting at Hamas members. Hamas are pretty up front that they target Israeli civilians. Always have been.

                  For what it’s worth, I hope you’re wrong about Israel. The alternative would mean there is no hope for any mutual lasting peace. Certainly not so long as you believe it.