The subreddits are created, moderated, populated, and maintained by volunteers. The company’s model is fundamentally not under their own control, which is a knife that cuts both ways. Calling it a hijacking when it was never under anyone else’s control is not just wrong, it’s actually entirely backwards. Reddit is the one hijacking the subreddits.
The company’s model is fundamentally not under their own control, which is a knife that cuts both ways.
That’s like saying Facebook’s model is not fundamentally under its own control. The same with Twitter, or any other social media.
Calling it a hijacking when it was never under anyone else’s control is not just wrong, it’s actually entirely backwards. Reddit is the one hijacking the subreddits.
Reddit owns the servers which host the subreddits.
Preventing users from accessing your subreddit, as a moderater (who is also not an employee of the company), as a form of protest, is a means of trying to control the website’s overall behavior.
So, yes, it is a high jacking attempt. Not an effective one, but one nonetheless.
Reddit owns the servers which host the subreddits.
And reddit has allowed their users to create subs and become mods. Now they are taking this away.
Preventing users from accessing your subreddit
You may want to consider that these mods’ actions are mostly what their users wanted (there have been polls and votes etc), so what they are doing now, is…
trying to control the website’s overall behavior.
… is not very different from creating the sub in the first place.
So, yes, it is a high jacking attempt.
Don’t confuse things. The Reddit company is the hijacker.
Giant subs have shut down before, yet Reddit never reopened them prior to June 2023. It was the coordinated action across subs that Reddit saw as a threat, not the act of closing a sub (which had never been against the rules and still isn’t). Reddit saw the protest as hijacking in the same way that other companies feel that the workers are hijacking the company when they try to unionize or strike. Only difference here is that the workers for this company are volunteers rather than paid employees.
Sure, reddit’s a private company, so they can mostly do whatever they want, but that doesn’t change the fact that these actions are unprecedented and a huge betrayal of trust, and there’s nothing wrong with people (especially those that invested a lot of time and effort into building the site into what it is today) being upset at reddit for this.
but that doesn’t change the fact that these actions are unprecedented and a huge betrayal of trust, and there’s nothing wrong with people (especially those that invested a lot of time and effort into building the site into what it is today) being upset at reddit for this.
I agree with you.
I had been using Reddit for a long time, so I understand.
I don’t think the blackout was productive: it was never going to change their minds, they just didn’t want to have give moderators the boot in the end.
Nah, it didn’t have to end like that. There was another way they could have played it, but they chose not to. There’s no reason to act as if it was inevitable.
Why give moderators the ability to close a subreddit if they didn’t want them to be able to close a subreddit? Using a tool that was explicitly given to you isn’t isn’t “hijacking”.
Because the users can go and make their own subreddits? That’s how disputes with moderators used to be solved. The users dissatisfied with the moderators would just split off into their own sub. The moderators have no control over that.
The only thing that has changed is that Reddit is actively stepping in now, which they didn’t used to do for these kinds of things.
These people are moderators. They do not “run” the company. They moderate a subreddit.
Yes, they maintain communities that make Reddit actually viable and “worth” something in the first place.
Yes, those people put in a lot of time and effort that, in a just world, they would be compensated for.
No, we do not live in a just world.
No, Reddit is not legally obligated to compensate them.
Put all that together…and, well, given the nature of the initial “we’re going to sell the shit of your data” move they pulled, what makes you think that they would have a change of heart?
If they “only” moderate a subreddit, and not running the company, they would hardly be able to “hijack the company”, no?
All that would happen is that users move onto their own subreddits, as they used to do before. Reddit could just promote those branch communities. The moderators aren’t exactly forcing the admins to do one thing or another.
It’s worth noting that protests are a fundamental part of Reddit culture and a large part of how the site became successful in the first place (waves of activism and migration from Digg over several years).
I think what they thought would happen was that reddit would relize they have inadvertantly united users, subreddit mods, and 3rd party developrs (many of which are ironically from subreddits that ordinarily despise each other) into a common cause against reddit…and that reddit would reconsider their actions and find a way not to murder 3rd party apps.
The mods and users knew exactly what would happen, either Reddit changes, or they double down. The mods/users were ready to react to which ever Reddit chose. No one is making a surprised pikachu face here, they’re just calling Reddit out for doubling down, like they already planned to do, in the event it’s the move Reddit makes. It’s really not that hard to understand.
So they should have… done nothing and given in? Everyone was pretty sure that’s what they were going to do. The alternative choice is Stockholm Syndrome.
Given in to what? The same dynamic that the majority of social media companies have imposed on their users?
One thing to remember is TPA users (of which I was one) were 3% of the website. 3%. Not a very large figure.
In this capitalistic environment, the dynamic is built off of the most a-moral “fuck you, we can get away with it” approach to business that operates within legal bounds that ultimately allow for a corporation to come out on top. Maybe they break a law, have to pay fines, whatever; as long as they can still profit and make investors/shareholders happy, they’re probably going to get away with it.
Yes, it’s fucked up. 9/10 times, it doesn’t matter what the media says and it doesn’t matter what the users say.
It sucks, but like Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. all of which have screwed their users over on multiple occasions, they’re still in business, chugging along, people are still using their services.
The alternative choice is Stockholm Syndrome.
By that logic, what’s the difference if, after all of this, still nothing changes and you still use their service?
We have Lemmy, kbin, Mastodon, etc. They’re a great alternative.
Yes, the communities aren’t as fleshed out, over time it will get better.
Reddit is thankfully more optional than a lot of other services.
You can stop using Reddit and go about your day to day obligations.
Services like Amazon and Google are a lot harder to give up.
I wonder what we could do to prevent things like this from happening in the future?
Maybe looking more into the political frameworks that exist, laws, and thinking realistically about what changes can be made in the near future, while also trying to understand the challenges that we would be faced against.
Something controversial happens -> a lot of people get pissed off (understandably so) -> media milks the shit out of the event -> narratives - true, false, embellished, whatever get created -> mischaracterization for anyone who’s approach to handling the situation isn’t in line with majority rule, blah blah blah -> the bad guys (usually) walk away fine.
That’s a very common cycle.
I wasn’t happy with what happened, but it’s been 2 months at this point, and what I’ve gathered is that nothing is going to change.
And yet because I say that these protests are fruitless people get mad and go absolutely nuts on the downvote button.
Sorry, I was under the impression we could have an open discussion without making assumptions in bad faith about people who disagree with the rationale.
What did they really think was going to happen?
They’re going to kick and ban people who are trying to hijack the company. That should be a given, because it makes sense.
wut
“Here, pilot this plane”
“Okay” does
“STOP HIJACKING MY PLANE”
How is closing subreddits in protest not basically trying to take control of the situation?
The subreddits are created, moderated, populated, and maintained by volunteers. The company’s model is fundamentally not under their own control, which is a knife that cuts both ways. Calling it a hijacking when it was never under anyone else’s control is not just wrong, it’s actually entirely backwards. Reddit is the one hijacking the subreddits.
That’s like saying Facebook’s model is not fundamentally under its own control. The same with Twitter, or any other social media.
Reddit owns the servers which host the subreddits.
Preventing users from accessing your subreddit, as a moderater (who is also not an employee of the company), as a form of protest, is a means of trying to control the website’s overall behavior.
So, yes, it is a high jacking attempt. Not an effective one, but one nonetheless.
And reddit has allowed their users to create subs and become mods. Now they are taking this away.
You may want to consider that these mods’ actions are mostly what their users wanted (there have been polls and votes etc), so what they are doing now, is…
… is not very different from creating the sub in the first place.
Don’t confuse things. The Reddit company is the hijacker.
Giant subs have shut down before, yet Reddit never reopened them prior to June 2023. It was the coordinated action across subs that Reddit saw as a threat, not the act of closing a sub (which had never been against the rules and still isn’t). Reddit saw the protest as hijacking in the same way that other companies feel that the workers are hijacking the company when they try to unionize or strike. Only difference here is that the workers for this company are volunteers rather than paid employees.
Sure, reddit’s a private company, so they can mostly do whatever they want, but that doesn’t change the fact that these actions are unprecedented and a huge betrayal of trust, and there’s nothing wrong with people (especially those that invested a lot of time and effort into building the site into what it is today) being upset at reddit for this.
I agree with you.
I had been using Reddit for a long time, so I understand.
I don’t think the blackout was productive: it was never going to change their minds, they just didn’t want to have give moderators the boot in the end.
Nah, it didn’t have to end like that. There was another way they could have played it, but they chose not to. There’s no reason to act as if it was inevitable.
Why give moderators the ability to close a subreddit if they didn’t want them to be able to close a subreddit? Using a tool that was explicitly given to you isn’t isn’t “hijacking”.
Because the users can go and make their own subreddits? That’s how disputes with moderators used to be solved. The users dissatisfied with the moderators would just split off into their own sub. The moderators have no control over that.
The only thing that has changed is that Reddit is actively stepping in now, which they didn’t used to do for these kinds of things.
Maybe they should have paid these people who run the company.
These people are moderators. They do not “run” the company. They moderate a subreddit.
Yes, they maintain communities that make Reddit actually viable and “worth” something in the first place.
Yes, those people put in a lot of time and effort that, in a just world, they would be compensated for.
No, we do not live in a just world.
No, Reddit is not legally obligated to compensate them.
Put all that together…and, well, given the nature of the initial “we’re going to sell the shit of your data” move they pulled, what makes you think that they would have a change of heart?
If they “only” moderate a subreddit, and not running the company, they would hardly be able to “hijack the company”, no?
All that would happen is that users move onto their own subreddits, as they used to do before. Reddit could just promote those branch communities. The moderators aren’t exactly forcing the admins to do one thing or another.
It’s worth noting that protests are a fundamental part of Reddit culture and a large part of how the site became successful in the first place (waves of activism and migration from Digg over several years).
I think what they thought would happen was that reddit would relize they have inadvertantly united users, subreddit mods, and 3rd party developrs (many of which are ironically from subreddits that ordinarily despise each other) into a common cause against reddit…and that reddit would reconsider their actions and find a way not to murder 3rd party apps.
They don’t care about any of that though. They knew this was going to happen before they made the announcement.
Do you really think they were that out of touch?
The mods and users knew exactly what would happen, either Reddit changes, or they double down. The mods/users were ready to react to which ever Reddit chose. No one is making a surprised pikachu face here, they’re just calling Reddit out for doubling down, like they already planned to do, in the event it’s the move Reddit makes. It’s really not that hard to understand.
They obviously didn’t know exactly what would happen, because if they did, they wouldn’t have bothered.
You’re listing two possible outcomes and pairing them as a single event, which doesn’t make sense.
Reddit was never going to change - that’s my point. They were definitely going to double down.
Have you ever, ever in your life, protested anything?
Yes.
So they should have… done nothing and given in? Everyone was pretty sure that’s what they were going to do. The alternative choice is Stockholm Syndrome.
Given in to what? The same dynamic that the majority of social media companies have imposed on their users?
One thing to remember is TPA users (of which I was one) were 3% of the website. 3%. Not a very large figure.
In this capitalistic environment, the dynamic is built off of the most a-moral “fuck you, we can get away with it” approach to business that operates within legal bounds that ultimately allow for a corporation to come out on top. Maybe they break a law, have to pay fines, whatever; as long as they can still profit and make investors/shareholders happy, they’re probably going to get away with it.
Yes, it’s fucked up. 9/10 times, it doesn’t matter what the media says and it doesn’t matter what the users say.
It sucks, but like Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Google, Apple, etc. all of which have screwed their users over on multiple occasions, they’re still in business, chugging along, people are still using their services.
By that logic, what’s the difference if, after all of this, still nothing changes and you still use their service?
We have Lemmy, kbin, Mastodon, etc. They’re a great alternative.
Yes, the communities aren’t as fleshed out, over time it will get better.
Reddit is thankfully more optional than a lot of other services.
You can stop using Reddit and go about your day to day obligations.
Services like Amazon and Google are a lot harder to give up.
I wonder what we could do to prevent things like this from happening in the future?
Maybe looking more into the political frameworks that exist, laws, and thinking realistically about what changes can be made in the near future, while also trying to understand the challenges that we would be faced against.
God save us from the delusion that whatever happens was secretly the prediction of assholes in power.
Sometimes… people… fuck up.
Sometimes people fuck up real big.
These people got caught lying on tape. Maybe they’re not as smart as you’d like.
You think I want them to be smart? Lol.
Something controversial happens -> a lot of people get pissed off (understandably so) -> media milks the shit out of the event -> narratives - true, false, embellished, whatever get created -> mischaracterization for anyone who’s approach to handling the situation isn’t in line with majority rule, blah blah blah -> the bad guys (usually) walk away fine.
That’s a very common cycle.
I wasn’t happy with what happened, but it’s been 2 months at this point, and what I’ve gathered is that nothing is going to change.
And yet because I say that these protests are fruitless people get mad and go absolutely nuts on the downvote button.
Sorry, I was under the impression we could have an open discussion without making assumptions in bad faith about people who disagree with the rationale.
My bad 🤚
‘Injustice is fine, actually. I am very smart.’
K bye.
No, it isn’t fine.
And no, I don’t think I’m “very smart”.
I mean, they have a done a new place at the worse time, so yeah lmao.
People think “Reddit” is their friend for some reason.