The 33-year-old Watts, who had not shared the news of her pregnancy even with her family, made her first prenatal visit to a doctor’s office behind Mercy Health-St. Joseph’s Hospital in Warren, a working-class city about 60 miles (100 kilometers) southeast of Cleveland.
The doctor said that, while a fetal heartbeat was still present, Watts’ water had broken prematurely and the fetus she was carrying would not survive. He advised heading to the hospital to have her labor induced, so she could have what amounted to an abortion to deliver the nonviable fetus. Otherwise, she would face “significant risk” of death, according to records of her case.
That was a Tuesday in September. What followed was a harrowing three days entailing: multiple trips to the hospital; Watts miscarrying into, and then flushing and plunging, a toilet at her home; a police investigation of those actions; and Watts, who is Black, being charged with abuse of a corpse. That’s a fifth-degree felony punishable by up to a year in prison and a $2,500 fine.
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This story is absolutely terrible but it’s, sadly, important to keep them visible so “moderates” know exactly what will happen if republicans take control on a national level. This is the future for all women if they were to take the WH and both chambers of Congress. They already have the Supreme Court for at least 15-20 years even if a Republican is never elected President again.
People have been talking about the possibility of this exact situation for decades. Any moderates who have not heard it simply don’t want to hear it
The public has the memory of a goldfish. We’re less than 3 years out from the single worst administration in the history of this country, and we’re seriously considering putting him back in office.
I personally don’t think that’s cause they forgot, I think that’s cause Americans are way more fascist than most left leaning folks are willing to admit to themselves. The idea the left pushes is that most people are good, but just apathetic and don’t vote. I think many Americans are horrible fascist assholes. We can’t depend on the silent majority, because they suck too.
Evil never sleeps while good just wants to exist in peace.
Good people don’t try as hard to enforce their will because they’re not selfish assholes. Nor can they understand that bad people will literally do everything they can to get their way.
If they’re unwilling to act in the face of darkness then they are no better than that darkness. They are essentially part of that darkness themselves.
Evil grows in the dark … Where the sun, it never shines … Evil grows in cracks and holes … And lives in people’s minds.
I don’t think that most of us are outright fascist, but I do think most of us are not just apathetic, but also willfully ignorant. For one reason or another–lack of education, viewing politics as “boring,” no energy to pay attention beyond headlines, a lack of media literacy–most Americans simply cannot see the impact an administration has on society beyond their immediate experience. For these people, Trump was a guy who said stupid shit, lowered their taxes (ignoring the sleight of hand where the ‘tax cut’ was almost entirely due to changes in tax withholding so the extra money on their paycheck was counterbalanced by a lower tax return), and held a rally when he lost. They’re not explicitly fascist–if the tanks start rolling down their town’s Main Street, they’ll wail and moan about “I never wanted this, how could this have happened”–but to them, things like “economics” or “human rights” or “democracy” or “equality” are boring toys that nerds play with. They’re the type of person that complains about crumbling roads and potholes and bad traffic, then turns around and complains about construction projects to fix the very things they were complaining about.
So I don’t necessarily fully agree that America is more fascist than we like to admit, but I think it’s largely a distinction without a difference–most Americans are perfectly happy to stand by and let fascism take the reigns, to do nothing and complain about anybody who does try to fight against it, right up until it’s too late and THEY’RE the ones up against the wall.
Fair point, but I think it’s not quite as benign apathy as you imply. I think rather a lot of people are racist, or sexist, or believe that ‘sluts that got knocked up deserve to be punished with a baby’. I think the uncomfortable truth that the left hasn’t figured out, is that the nasty stuff trump said was at the very least not offensive to far too many Americans.
We are far, far closer to a society where those white folks in the background calmly watching a lynching of a black guy than we like to believe. They’re not the ones with the rope and they may not have ever done anything explicit themselves, but they’re all fine watching it and spending time with the people who did it too.
Most of American society seems to be that classic, fake white Christian charity group that seems so helpful putting out a meal for the homeless at the holidays while simultaneously hating everyone they can get away with, abusing their family at home, and generally being terrible people that have an outwardly normal appearance.
People who are willfully ignorant and still choose to vote are responsible for the fascists they vote for. I’m tired of pretending they’re innocent because they “don’t know” what they’re voting for.
So you are arguing to not vote and let the fascist win quicker because you are obsessed with political purity & can’t be bothered to talk to your neighbors?
No, I’m arguing for people who are so ignorant they would vote for the fascist to not vote.
The GOP already packed the court by acting in bad faith with Obama. There’s no reason we shouldn’t just appoint more judges. 9 has not always been the size of the court, and the size is not restricted by the Constitution.
Or how about reducing the size back to 7 and removing the 2 newest members?
What’s wrong with Jackson?
Also, that would leave us with Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, Sotomayor, and Kagan.
We’d have the same problem, a court dominated by bad faith judges who are participating in a long term conservative ideological project.
I assume they forgot about Jackson because her appointment wasn’t a circus.
Indeed I did
Far worse than that, Republicans are vying for and have run practice sessions for a “Convention of the States”, where basically states (which are predominantly Republican controlled, in spite of population distributions) can come together and decide which Federal laws they want to adhere to.
Basically, the situation you’re fear mongering over is far closer than even you make out it to be.
A convention of the states is infinitely worse. It is basically a rewriting of the Constitution. Koch has been funding this. In this political climate imagine what happens when we let fascist billionaires create us a new govt. Holy fucking shit.
This is why state elections are so crucially important. We normal non-assholes need to not just vote but be involved in local and state elections. Donating time, money, even running for offices.
States can shield us from a lot of the bad shit happening at a national level if we elect halfway decent people.
A minimum consensus might go some way to fixing things.
A small part of me wants to see them try it. There is a legal means of doing this that has never been tested. There is something amusing about letting someone who has done nothing except being critical handed power that they have no ability to use.
Imagine all those DeSantos types actually given the task of sorting out the constitution. They don’t know how to write an amendment, they wouldn’t be able to agree on wording, they would have no clue how the courts would apply the wording, they aren’t even sure if it would stick because again no one has tried it. It would be who knows how many tens of millions of dollars in lawyer fees and conference hall rentals and travel expenses and committees all to pass something that would break on the first challenge.
But that’s not the way legislation works. The law is written, then it is voted in my representatives, then it is challenged by parties that fall foul of it. Waiting until the very last stage is the least likely method to be successful.
Just call it a confederacy already and get rid of the mixed signals. Half of them still act like they won the damn war anyway, with all their loser worship.
what will happen if republicans take control on a national level.
States don’t have to follow federal law. Just look at cannabis.
There’s a 0% chance Californians go along with any federal restrictions on abortion.
You need to show me a birth and death certificate for that to be a corpse.
And then she gets a child credit in her taxes.
Unrelated fun fact on child tax credits: There is a section of the internal revenue code that states if your child has been kidnapped, you can still claim the dependent.
This means that at some point in time, somebody lost a child, and their priority was maintaining that sweet, sweet credit to the point that they went to court to argue the matter.
Edit: It’s in Internal Revenue Code section 152
(6)Treatment of missing children (A)In general Solely for the purposes referred to in subparagraph (B), a child of the taxpayer— (i)who is presumed by law enforcement authorities to have been kidnapped by someone who is not a member of the family of such child or the taxpayer, and (ii)who had, for the taxable year in which the kidnapping occurred, the same principal place of abode as the taxpayer for more than one-half of the portion of such year before the date of the kidnapping, shall be treated as meeting the requirement of subsection ©(1)(B) with respect to a taxpayer for all taxable years ending during the period that the child is kidnapped.
You’re making it sound like it’s definitely the parent who is somehow being cruddy.
Lawsuits over tax interpretation don’t happen until years after the fact and they’re initiated by the IRS.Alternative explanation: someone’s kid was kidnapped, so they took their taxes to a tax prep person and told them to deal with it. Tax prep person checked the boxes for the credit and submitted the taxes.
Later, the IRS says you can’t claim them as a dependent and that they don’t live in your house without providing an alternative address.
The IRS sues HR block as the agent of the taxpayer and five years later a judge says that you actually can, so the code is updated and a new checkbox added.You bring up a good point. Unfortunately I don’t have access to case law research to trace the origins of the statute.
Nah, I’m pretty sure it was the parent of a kidnapping victim who lobbied their congressperson to make sure their missing kid didn’t increase their tax burden.
I mean, if the kid hadn’t been so obsessed with free candy, it wouldn’t have even been an issue.
I’m hoping there an /s at the end.
I’m always amazed that people would need to see an /s to understand blanantly obvious in your face sarcasm.
Especially when punctuated with a joke about blaming a kidnapped child for taking the free candy.
Think about what site you’re on for five seconds.
I have ADHD and autism. I do not see subtleties easily.
I don’t think that is how it happened. It probably happened with all the bullshit that goes down with divorce.
It says in there kidnapped by somebody who is not a family matter, so that’s probably not the origin.
Unfortunately, I don’t have access to legal citators anymore, so I don’t think I’ve got the resources to find the true origins. I haven’t thought about this in years, and now I’m super curious.
They left her waiting, knowing the baby was already dead, increasing her risk of potentially deadly complications. I see no problem here. The dead baby should have been removed.
She should not be charged with anything. There is medical neglect going on here and it’s obvious to me that her life was in jeopardy the longer she carried the dead baby.
I lost my last pregnancy at 20+ weeks due to premature break of my water. I didn’t even realize it had happened, the pregnancy was wanted even if it wasn’t planned, and I am still dealing with the trauma (and the hospital bills). All I can think of is I’m thankful it happened when it did and my doctor didn’t hesitate to induce labor - a medical induced abortion - so my life would be okay. (And I was able to get a copper IUD placed because I know my mental health could not survive the potential loss of another child.)
This poor woman… She is traumatized and our trash legal system wants to fine her and jail her. She needs support and love, not more debt and punishment. I screamed and cried in the hospital surrounded by support medical staff. She was in her bathroom…
This makes my blood boil. The government should have zero say in private medical decisions. Abortion is no one’s first choice.
You see no problem because you are not a brainwashed, religious, misogynistic nutjob with a need to control all women and keep them in their place
So sorry. It is definitely extremely traumatic. We don’t talk about this sort of thing enough. I can’t imagine the horror of facing a devastating loss and going to jail on top of it for doing nothing wrong.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see more women arrested for miscarriages in the future. This is the hellscape of control and misery the GOP wants.
It’s fucking sickening, cruel, ignorant, and disgusting.
The GOP must be stripped of power.
Remember guys, both sides are the same. We should probably vote third party or something. /S
Biden could have prevented this by packing the court.
The outrage leads to donations.
That’s an interesting precedent to set. That’s your go-to retort?
Sure…and there’s precedent already. The first two things Biden should have done in office was give us 15 justices and senators to DC and Puerto Rico.
However…the donations the Ds got for Roe being over turned were astronomical. It’s lucrative for them to not fix problems and just bitch about them.
Wait, the SC has changed its count since 1869??? I had no idea we could keep adding justices without setting precedent.
Remember, the lesser-evil is still evil and democrats did nothing to enshrine abortion rights in the constitution.
Democrats love this because it means they don’t have to improve.
What in ever fuck are you smoking? Is civics no longer taught in school ??? Walk us through the path to get this enshrined in the constitution. I’m really curious how that’s happening.
I’m not going to take your comment seriously because you started off insulting me.
Learn to behave like an adult or you will be treated as a child.
Ok, let me try.
What? Is civics no longer taught in school ??? Walk us through the path to get this enshrined in the constitution. I’m really curious how that’s happening.
There is that better?
I’m just baffled by how many comments I see displaying a complete ignorance of the legislative process in this country. “Why don’t the Dems magically enshrine abortion in the constitution?” Oh gosh golly mr!
The Democrats could have passed a bill, but “enshrining it in the Constitution” would mean passing a Constitutional amendment. First, they would need a 2/3rds vote of Congress. That means that the Democrats couldn’t have a slim majority - they’d need a large majority. Or they’d need to find Republicans willing to vote for a Constitutional amendment protecting abortion rights. Basically an impossibility.
Even if the Democrats managed to get the Constitutional Right To Abortion passed, they would need to have 75% of the state legislatures pass it. Democrats don’t control that name state legislatures.
So perhaps the Democrats could have passed a national law, right? Except that the Republicans would inevitably filibuster this in the Senate. The Democrats could have changed the filibuster rules, but not all of them supported changing these rules. (Mainly because it would prevent them from stopping the Republicans if the Republicans regained the Senate.) Any law that was passed would inevitably have been challenged up to the conservative Supreme Court.
You could definitely criticize the Democrats for not pushing harder to pass a law guaranteeing abortion, but a Constitutional Amendment was out of reach.
So…with all that said…what should compel anyone to vote for the Democrats since they’ve decided they’re not going to actually pursue anything to help women’s rights?
Did you read what I wrote? It’s not that they decided they weren’t going to do anything. It’s that the rules of the government limit what they can do with a small majority. They can’t just unilaterally decide that they are passing a new constitutional amendment with a few vote majority in the House/Senate. They could try for a bill, but there they are limited by various other rules not to mention the conservative Supreme Court. If the Democrats had a big enough majority, they could get more bills passed.
And that being said, what’s the alternative? Allow the Republicans to get into power and hope that they don’t take away women’s rights too much? Many Republicans have already declared that they want a national abortion ban. Others have said that they want to criminalize miscarriage and ban contraception.
Voting third party (thanks to our First Past The Post system) won’t work. Sitting out the elections and not voting won’t work. The best thing to do is get as many Democrats in office as possible from local positions to the highest offices. Then, put pressure on the higher up Democrats to get a women’s rights bill passed.
At this point, and with our current political system, not supporting the Democratic candidate is essentially supporting the Republican one.
It’s that the rules of the government limit what they can do with a small majority
That has never stopped the R’s from steamrolling their agenda through.
It’s time to stop making excuses and demand some action.
If the Democrats don’t force as many votes on abortion rights as the Republicans did trying to overturn obamacare then what even is the point of them?
Yes, let’s go die of exposure because there’s a hole in the roof. Throw the whole house away just because there’s glaring issues with it when there’s no other viable choice in the vicinity.
What level of analogy do you need to understand that if you abandon the power you do have (ie minute nudge control of democratic establishment) you become irrelevant due to powerlessness?
To change what’s acceptable, you shift what’s considered acceptable, nip at the bits that are trying to stay with the old status quo, and repeat until you move the window to wherever you’re trying to push it. That’s how this works (if the window goes left for democrats, you would call that an “improvement”). Revolution is anomalous. Pushing for revolution and depending on the assumption of it happening leads to total powerlessness, which is less than what lefties have right now (right now I’d only call them mostly powerless).
You can’t get away from dealing with the devil when Satan created the whole system in the first place.
They are. What did Democrats do to stop this?
Nothing.
They raised $80,000,000 off of Roe repeal instead.
Well, people did stop this in Ohio, specifically. Local organizers recently successfully petitioned to put abortion rights (which Republican representatives had been threatening) on the ballot statewide - voters got it passed, alongside marijuana legalization, all while facing (and continuing to face) significant antagonism and legal backlash from “elected” Republicans in the 2nd most gerrymandered state in the union.
Both parties suck, I’d go so far as to say both parties frequently do outright evil shit, but they are not the fucking same, and even if they were, that has yet stop people from coming together to get involved and improve their communities themselves. Observing politics near exclusively at the federal level tends to obscure that reality. I accept that this sort of doomerism can come from a place of ignorance, so I offer you suggestion: if you want things to get better, go help. Go find out what groups are actively working to induce local- or state-level government reform, or who are working to directly improve the lives of marginalized people in your community, and go help them. You can’t exactly stop fed-level Dems from being useless hypocrites, but you can get involved with groups in your community to help with the work of bringing about positive change - and while that is harder than stewing about the state of things, it actually gets results.
I feel like I might’ve gotten a little off topic with this, but I just see this sentiment of “both parties are the same (so let’s completely abandon electoralism)” so often online right now and I find it so exhausting and unconstructive.
Yes, actually doing something to fix the problem is exhausting and unconstructive. Let’s just continue to eat shit, instead. Much easier.
Just edited the followup reply to clarify what I was trying to say- I don’t think it’s what you thought it was, and I can see how it was unclear
Wait, why is raising money your problem here? TFG sells cut up pieces of fabric from a mug shot suit and NFTs to make money…
The only thing I’d relent on is that Dems trusted a Supreme Court decision to confer abortion rights, talk about Dems being dense, why rely on the highest court in the land to set precedent? How funny they couldn’t foresee 6 Republican installed Justices tearing it out decades later, one (Alito) referencing a guy’s treatise from 400 years ago.
Yeah, definitely the same…
I’m not seeing the narrative on Democrats trusting SCOTUS here, Roe was decided in 1973 under the Ford administration. The next Democrat president Jimmy Carter was highly christian & saw only to uphold the law despite disagreeing with it & only viewed expect in the life of the mother. Congress from the 70s-90s still depended on Southern Democrats for any Democratic majority & they were very much opposed to supporting Roe. Even as you get to Bill Clinton he later loses congress to a Republican majority.
Best cases were first term Democratic presidents Clinton & Obama who were both in no position to swing for the fences on large issues that would split their own party(Untested in Obama’s time) & who would both see Republicans sweep majorities in congress at re-election time . We are only at this level of support due to hard work of Democrats over the years to rebuild after losing southern voters but it comes at great risk of losing the Senate. Clinton & Obama use to be able to count Ohio & Florida as blue states.
The game of getting consensus & then even winning a legislative victory is tough out there.
Appreciate you adding this context, I was a child in Clinton’s administration so the nuance escaped me.
I read, before replying, that Dems made very loose efforts to codify but it didn’t get the support (on the same side of the aisle) it should have.
You dropped this /s
It’s a good question. Democrats are the primary force capable of not letting this happen … but they did.
They had the presidency and Congress.
They had the power to hold up the entire legislative agenda until Roe was codified if they wanted.
Instead, they just raised money and did nothing else.
I’m sure the Democrats doing nothing for four years and shutting down the government because the Republicans won’t help them codify abortion is gonna work out in their favor, lmao.
This is why critical thinking should be emphasized more in school.
No I didn’t.
I’m honestly surprised you all saw Democrats use Roe repeal to raise money and otherwise didn’t do jack shit to try and stop it even though they had the presidency and control of Congress.
Finally a true unpopular opinion that I fully understand.
Thank you for speaking your mind and explaining the events you see to shape your world
I grew up in Ohio.
Don’t live in Ohio.
Ohio has produced a statistically abnormal amount of astronauts. Ohio is so bad that the people from there have been soured of the earth itself.
Their exit velocity when leaving Ohio is so high that they simply can’t stop themselves from catapulting into space.
Catholic hospital leaves this women sitting and waiting for care while they debate on whether or not to provide treatment because of laws and policies. They never provide her treatment and she goes home. What choice did this poor woman have but to have a miscarriage at home. I can’t begin to imagine the horror and hopelessness this woman endured. She would have been in no good mental state to deal with this and honestly her actions shouldn’t be held against her.
Even if she hadn’t gone to the hospital first, this could happen to anyone. 10-15% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, many of them happen at home. Probably even more, but people don’t always realize even when it happens. Just another example in a long list of many many reasons why these anti abortion access laws are wrong. Her actions are not surprising, why would anyone want to be forthcoming about a miscarriage if just acknowledging it may turn the authorities on you? Accusing you of inducing an abortion?
The mother could have died from these delays in care too, this situation can result in sepsis and other complications. As the fetus becomes exposed to the outside world massive infections, fetal death, and then maternal death can all ensue. The first doctor was right, she should go straight to the hospital. But then the hospital just sent her home multiple times with premature ruptured membranes while they deliberate abortion legalities? That’s a hospital admission for continuous monitoring until delivery or an abortion (depending on specifics and gestational age/viability), not a discharge to home and wait situation.
We need these stupid and dangerous laws all struck down yesterday. Anti abortion access laws kill people.
Even if she hadn’t gone to the hospital first, this could happen to anyone.
Hold up…
Watts miscarrying into, and then flushing and plunging, a toilet at her home;
She miscarried the fetus, and tried to flush it.
Warren Assistant Prosecutor Lewis Guarnieri told Ivanchak that Watts left home for a hair appointment after miscarrying, leaving the toilet clogged. Police would later find the fetus wedged in the pipes.
Ohio’s reproductive rights amendment would have ensured she could have gotten help at the hospital, but it would not protect her from the consequences of trying to flush a fetus.
The hospital would have provided that help if they didn’t fear potential legal action. She wouldn’t have flushed the fetus if she didn’t fear legal action.
The problem here is the laws.
Also, it’s a non viable fetus. It was never alive. It was never given a birth certificate nor a death certificate. Do you believe she should go to prison for a year after all the trauma she’s been through because she flushed it in a state where the law is against her in every way if they find out this even happened?
I think a maximum of 1 year in prison and/or a $2500 fine is a reasonable punishment for deliberately attempting to flush non-flushable wipes into a sanitary sewer.
Since Ohio has adopted its reproductive rights amendment, I would argue that the maximum punishment is rather lenient. If she flushed that fetus today, I’d support the maximum.
Under the conditions she faced back in September, I’d expect a guilty verdict but a suspended sentence.
I guess all I can really say is…what the fuck is wrong with you, man?
What, a suspended sentence is too lenient?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Uh yes? If a miscarriage at home happens deceased fetal products and placenta come out. If they don’t all come out the person may need the assistance of a doctor and D&C to get everything out, any retained products are very dangerous and can result in sepsis and other issues. People everywhere have miscarriages all the time, they often happen at home, and if far enough along there’s often recognizable anatomy. Did you want her to bundle the remains up in a bag and bring it to the police station or what? It may be good to try and show it to a doctor in some circumstances as sometimes light can be shed on what went wrong. Though not exactly a mystery in this case as premature rupture of membranes was clearly the issue that led to fetal demise. And there’s no specific law in Ohio about handling the products of a miscarriage, other than requiring healthcare providers to offer the remains for burial if the mother chooses. And if the hospital hadn’t denied her obviously needed care because of Ohio’s dangerous anti abortion access laws, this all would have been taken care of in the hospital for her before she had to go through all of this at home. I can’t imagine how traumatic the whole experience must have been.
They’re bending some statute relating to corpses in some extreme way it was probably never intended when it was written, they aren’t even alleging she induced an abortion or anything like that. If they really interpret the statute that way, then yes they have criminalized most miscarriages in Ohio. Miscarriages happen every day. Is it “abuse of a corpse” every time a doctor does a D&C and the hospital doesn’t bury it because the mother didn’t want that? Is it “abuse of a corpse” every time a miscarriage happens at home and someone thought it was just a heavy period? People should not be under obligation to bring fetal remains, placenta, and blood clots to the police for examination or something. What a ridiculous idea, it’s a trying enough time when that happens as it is. Some people may prefer some sort of ceremony or burial, but I really think that’s individual preference and should not be a law. Probably why it’s not a law there already, or most places for that matter.
This was the body of a fetus large enough to clog a toilet. If she had managed to get it flushed down the toilet, it would likely be found by a sanitation worker cleaning out the equipment at a sewage treatment plant. That worker would be expected to inform law enforcement upon discovering any human remains, and law enforcement would be expected to conduct an investigation.
The sewer is not an acceptable method of disposing of intact human remains.
Burying it in her back yard would not have been unreasonable. Burning it in a bonfire would not have been unreasonable. Contacting the doctor’s office or hospital for advice would have been preferable. Flushing it, or throwing it in the trash is not.
The only mitigation is that the laws were shit. A suspended sentence is plenty enough leniency for the piss-poor state of the laws at the time.
So what? Products of miscarriage end up in the toilet sometimes, it’s just facts of life here. It’s kind of a natural place to go when fluids and blood are rushing out of you. Law enforcement discovers it was the product of a miscarriage, and that should have been the end of it. There’s not even a law dictating this, and for good reason. But they decide to stretch some other law to an extreme that shouldn’t apply here, to harass a poor women who suffered a tragedy, exacerbated by a system that failed her multiple times and could have easily resulted in her death. She’s the victim here.
TL;DR her pregnancy was non-viable. She had a miscarriage, into her toilet at home. She tried to plunger the “blockage”, and was subsequently charged with a crime.
The context your tldr is missing is that the hospital she went to ignored her and left her waiting.
Thanks, I skimmed over that.
Her regular doctor told her to go to ER, ER left her waiting while they deliberated over the “legalities” of it, discharging her home just before the legal deadline for a legal medical abortion expired.
Also she was black. For some reason that’s important enough to be mentioned several times.
Didn’t ohio just vote to solidy abortion rights in their constitution? How do you criminally charge someone after having what is essentially a referendum vote on it, and passing it… and then turning around and doing this shit where they just tell the population to get fucked? Is that how I read this?
Unfortunately since it happened in September it happened before the vote took place. Still despicable though
I feel like a good lawyer should be able to work out the situation now that it’s in effect though … no?
It seems absurd to actively pursue a case where the crime is no longer a crime. Like, a reasonable judge would have to dismiss the case … right?
Edit: also worth noting abortion was not actually illegal in Ohio in September, the Ohio Supreme Court had put a stay on laws going into effect/being reactivated post repeal of Roe.
It was passed in November but didn’t take effect until December 7th. This story happened in September.
Soon public bathrooms in America can have birth certificate dispensers for all the miscarriages that are apparently corpses now.
This the Future Republicans want for their Daughters!
Other people’s daughters, their own they think will be magically excused do to circumstance. (Which will match many of the womens circumstance they wished death upon)
It’s an adaptation of the Just World fallacy.
I think it goes like this: "These things happen to people who… well, somehow God knows this is right for them. Probably punishment for something, maybe not. Punishment is less likely if they’re white and church going.
But it happens for a reason. A justifiable one, even if it’s inscrutable."
I think things happen for reasons too. Just not magical ones.
Edits: markdown is more challenging on mobile.
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No. Their own abortions are proper, moral, and necessary. It’s everyone else’s (especially marginal communities) abortions that are a travesty and murder.
For those who may not have read this:
This was a great read
Do you want another civil war… because this is how you get another civil war.
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This is obviously a dumb question, but what the fuck are the legal requirements of a miscarriage? I can imagine her thinking she was glad she didn’t have any more appointments or have to pay a huge hospital bill. What else was she supposed to do, and would she have known?
I once passed a kidney stone and they didn’t say to do anything special with it so I threw it away. Same thing, right?
Yeah that’s the crux of the argument the lawyer is making:
Timko, a former prosecutor, said Ohio’s abuse-of-corpse statute is vague. It prohibits treating “a human corpse” in a way that would “outrage” reasonable family or community sensibilities. “From a legal perspective, there’s no definition of ‘corpse,’” she said. “Can you be a corpse if you never took a breath?”
Howard said clarity on what about Watts’ behavior constituted a crime is essential. “For rights of people with the capacity for pregnancy, this is huge,” she said. “Her miscarriage was entirely ordinary. So I just want to know what (the prosecutor) thinks she should have done. If we are going to require people to collect and bring used menstrual products to hospitals so that they can make sure it is indeed a miscarriage, it’s as ridiculous and invasive as it is cruel.”
She’d already been in and out of the hospital, and so when she got home I’m sure she was so traumatized and confused that she probably thought she just had to release whatever was left and move on. Kinda like what happens in a period. The blood comes out, you flush it and clean up, end of story.
I would imagine the “proper” protocol would be for the doctor to “perform” the procedure in a hospital and dispose of it the same way they do of all biological waste. There is absolutely no way she would have an intimate knowledge of Ohio’s corpse desecration laws. I buried my cat in the back yard and that was that. She should be afforded the same dignity here, since the fetus died in utero.
If it cost but a penny, republicans wouldn’t afford dignity for their own mothers.
And they couldn’t afford it without a bailout from California.
The legal requirement seems to be not to have one.
Stuff like that if people who have not a single clue about pregnancy make laws regarding pregnancy.
This has nothing to do with the case above, but it’s a really bad idea to just throw away a kidney stone. It needs to be analyzed so you can come up with a treatment plan with your doctor to help you avoid future problems.
I’ve had several. I guess they figured they’d analyzed enough of them.
I missed the part where you said they didn’t say to do anything special with it. Sorry.
In fairness they asked every other time. They might’ve just forgotten, but in any event I had nothing to do with it. No little bottle or anything. Which I’d guess they didn’t give her one either since she wasn’t sent home to pass it. So anyway it went down the toilet in both cases. Maybe I left too much originally unsaid in that parallel.
I just hope you haven’t had to deal with them too often. I had one kidney stone last year, not even a huge one, and they gave me fentanyl in the hospital to deal with the pain, so I definitely sympathize.
Four times confirmed, I think with a fifth that passed without needing to go to the hospital (had leftover Vicodin at home thankfully from back in the days they weren’t quite as stingy with it - for good reasons I understand but I always used my meds responsibly and stopped taking them as soon as I could to save the leftovers for when they were really needed). Thankfully none have needed surgery but they were all nearly that size. I appreciate the empathy and send some of my own. It’s the worst and they just send you home with pain meds and well wishes.
Oh man and that’s free?
Not in America. But we have insurance, so our medical bills are only… nearing $10,000?
Only $10,000? Why such a discount???
We have “good” insurance and I haven’t had my latest surgery yet (it’s next week), which will bring it up to about $12,000.
This is horrific on so many levels. I can’t imagine how much trauma this is all causing. 😭
My first step-mother miscarried my half brother’s twin (without knowing she was even pregnant let alone with twins), and the only reason she knew to dig it out of the toilet to be tested was because she was a nurse.
Expecting a traumatized non-medically trained woman to know the same is stupid at best.
Also though, if it’s your first or even second miscarriage in a row, they won’t test it anyway. That’s an optional thing you spend a lot of money on. They straight told me there’s nothing we can do for you and there’s no point in testing after 2, because it’s so common that it’s just normal.
If you go to pass it in the hospital that’s thousands of dollars, and only makes sense if you fear for your life. Dealing with the major period at home on the toilet and with adult diapers is way cheaper and much more comfortable in your grief.
Indeed. And now normal is illegal, apparently.
All true. But this was almost 50 years ago and in Canada.
Although our politicians have swallowed the same cold fruit drink your’s have, we can still count on universal healthcare (and soon universal dental care) to keep us out of that kind of medical debt.
Oh they’ll test it now, and they’ll charge you for it.
Good grief. 🥺
And yes to the comment. 😔
