• TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    It’s so very capitalist to look at failed attempts to escape capitalism which were sabotaged by capitalists as indication that the need to rebel is the problem.

    • gxgx55@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Failing to account for greed for power some people have is in itself a fatal flaw, to be honest. Anyone who advocates for the exact same actions and glorifies the USSR knows what they are doing, they’re hoping to come out on top after their desired revolution. Unfortunately, there are plenty of those kinds of people on this platform…

      • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Are Leftists advocating for the exact same actions as the USSR, or are Capitalists gaslighting the ignorant into believing they are?

        • gxgx55@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          No, I’m just saying tankie infestations are so widespread and loud that they have a decent amount of leverage on what the average person thinks of communism, and tankie opposing leftists are either not loud enough, or not numerous enough.

      • phobiac@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Out of curiosity, how do you think governments in large capitalist economies (such as the US) properly account for greed for power and keep it in check? Do you think they are doing a good job on that front?

        • gxgx55@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Poorly, but not worse than a dictatorship(such as the USSR).

          What’s your point?

          • phobiac@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You might want to turn that incredibly critical eye you’ve got for communism back in on capitalism, that’s all.

            • gxgx55@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I… am?

              What is this, I am against dictatorial abominations, so that means I am in favor of capitalist abuse? I am literally saying that opposition to capitalism is shooting itself in the foot by tolerating the existence of authoritarian “communists”.

              Unless you’re an actual tankie, your words towards me make no sense.

              • phobiac@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Misunderstanding on my end then, I made some clearly unfair assumptions. I agree with you there and apologize for the mischaracterization.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            That’s objectively false. USSR managed to provide everyone with food, housing, healthcare, education, and jobs. Nobody worried about losing their job and ending up on the street or that they wouldn’t be able to retire in dignity. People had reasonable work hours and enjoyed over 20 days vacation. None of the capitalist regimes around today are able to achieve these things.

            • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              “USSR managed to provide everyone with food, housing, healthcare, education, and jobs”

              the victims of the holodomor would like a word

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                That’s just such an intellectually dishonest comment to make, the fact that you have to go back to 1933 really shows says everything we need to know here. The fact you’ve conveniently omitted is that famines were a common occurrence before the revolution, and one of the major factors driving the revolution. During the 1932 Holodomor Famine, the USSR sent aid to affected regions in an attempt to alleviate the famine. According to Mark Tauger in his article, The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933:

                While the leadership did not stop exports, they did try to alleviate the famine. A 25 February 1933 Central Committee decree allotted seed loans of 320,000 tons to Ukraine and 240,000 tons to the northern Caucasus. Seed loans were also made to the Lower Volga and may have been made to other regions as well. Kul’chyts’kyy cites Ukrainian party archives showing that total aid to Ukraine by April 1933 actually exceeded 560,000 tons, including more than 80,000 tons of food

                Some bring up massive grain exports during the famine to show that the Soviet Union exported food while Ukraine starved. This is fallacious for a number of reasons, but most importantly of all the amount of aid that was sent to Ukraine alone actually exceeded the amount that was exported at the time.

                Aid to Ukraine alone was 60 percent greater than the amount exported during the same period. Total aid to famine regions was more than double exports for the first half of 1933.

                According to Tauger, the reason why more aid was not provided was because of the low harvest

                It appears to have been another consequence of the low 1932 harvest that more aid was not provided: After the low 1931, 1934, and 1936 harvests procured grain was transferred back to peasants at the expense of exports.

                Tauger is not a communist, yet even he is forced to acknowledge that the Soviets really did try to alleviate the famine as best as they could.

                https://www.jstor.org/stable/2500600

                The reality is that USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:

                Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and the last time USSR had a famine was in 1940s. CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 period while having better nutrition:

                Try harder with your trolling.

    • CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      failed attempts

      They didn’t fail. I mean you can criticize the ussr, but it was not capitalist

      which were sabotaged by capitalists

      What a weird thing to say. The USSR had sovereign control over the largest country in the world by far + a lot of allies. The capitalists can’t even get rid of north Korea. Its not the capitalists, the system is just shit

      the need to rebel is the problem

      I mean its fine to rebel, but if your goal is communism I will bet on another case of “tHatS nOT rEaL coMMUnIsM”

      • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Communism doesn’t include a hierarchy of power enforced by violence. The two concepts are antithetical. The USSR was somewhere between capitalism and fascism.

        • CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Communism doesn’t include a hierarchy of power enforced by violence

          Very convenient, since nothing will ever meet this standard, so you will be able to say “that’s not communism” for the rest of your life. Actually sounds like the definition on anarcho capitalism

          The two concepts are antithetical

          Maybe to you, but many of the people in power at the time believed they were on the way to communism

          USSR was somewhere between capitalism and fascism

          I know of two common definitions of capitalism: “a system mostly organized around a profit-motive” and “a system in which individuals are mostly free to enter into consensual contracts”. I don’t see how the USSR is close to either of these. It was closer to fascism, tho there are also large differences

          • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            “Nothing will ever meet this standard” ~CHINESEBOTTROLL

            If CHINESEBOTTROLL says it, then it must be true.

            The two concepts are antithetical, even if the ignorant and corrupt claim it for themselves. Modern Christianity is antithetical to the Gospels of Christ, and that remains the case even as America slides into Christofascism. Fascists have always been steeped in irony because their core beliefs are based in the ignorance of ego.

            You having an ignorant concept of capitalism doesn’t have any bearing on reality, except that it causes you to ignore the atrocities of the system that keeps you fat and happy.

            • CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              the atrocities of the system that keeps you fat and happy.

              You misunderstand. That is not capitalism but CRONY-capitalism. The two concepts are anrithetical. In REAL capitalism everyone respects the non-agression principle and therefore everyone is free. Crony capitalism is actually the LEAST capitalist system and is closer to socialism, because the government does stuff. I am very smart

              • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                I didn’t say that communism hasn’t happened. It happens everywhere there’s more than one person present, until it is stopped by a fascist who starts building a hierarchy, demanding that one person be in control and set the agenda. Fear is the fertile ground in which ignorance blossoms. The reason that all governments are based in fascism is because they all ultimately believe in their own authority to enact violence on individuals. When the ignorance INEVITABLY collapses into violence, communism rises from the ashes in the form of mutual aide, community, schools, and basic infrastructure.

                • CHINESEBOTTROLL@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  communism rises from the ashes in the form of mutual aide, community, schools, and basic infrastructure.

                  This made me realize that you are not worth my time. I hope you have a nice life!