Evidence has finally surfaced from Vaush's own stream that makes it clear that his secret proclivities are just as bad as had previously been implied.Support...
Also it turns out the wanting to fuck horses thing wasn’t just a bit.
We have this whole culture around consuming simulated CSA material and we aren’t supposed to talk about it because ‘its just a drawing bro’
I am genuinely repulsed by the prevalence of Loli in anime. Every anime show someone tries to get me into has a little girl character. Even if she’s not overly sexualised it skeeves me out.
I am going to have to ask you not to conflate Anime with CSA and CSA material. While I my self do not watch Anime, I think it is ridiculous to think anyone here would get upset about you raising concerns about CSA if it where just a photo. However, from a thread here, there is compelling reason to see that Anime is not equivalent to CSA. For example Pokemon, is considered Anime, and from what I understand is a children’s show.
The highest grossing and most watched anime in any given year are probably that year’s release of Pokemon, Detective Conan or Ghibli movie so I think your perception is warped by the filter of Westoid anime fans who hyperfixate on the kind of anime that can only air after midnight on Japanese broadcast TV.
Pokemon is anime now? Anyway another mystifying pile of shite. Never understood it.
I never heard of Detective Conan but it’s apparently a minuscule little 4 year old girl dressed in a suit and shorts? This is not helping any cases here. This is children’s programming, I mean for very young children.
Ghibli Never hear of either but I’m thinking that the definition of Anime is not just “any cartoon that is made in Asia.”
I just bought an expensive keyboard. Not a children’s toy, a serious mechanical keyboard for adults. It came with this set of stickers. Sexualised children with impossibly enormous tits. How is this normal? This is not “after midnight on Japanese broadcast TV.”
In case it was unclear, Im making fun of you for stuff like this
I just bought an expensive keyboard. Not a children’s toy, a serious mechanical keyboard for adults.
and not knowing what chibi artstyle is, thinking that those stickers are supposed to be children and getting big mad about that, as opposed to any of the real issues with anime and Japanese pop culture
not defending japans fucked up pedo shit, if thats what your comment is supposed to imply
You know how to use a search engine, right? “Anime” is literally “animation originating from Japan”. When the style is used outside of Japan it’s “Animesque”. Pokemon is a “Japanese media franchise”.
The Japanese use the term for any animation, though, so these are mostly labels from westerners.
I gave two definitions, the English one and the one for アニメ. The second definition is for context, it’s not like we’re speaking Japanese. Animesque isn’t a definition of anime, it’s very explicitly not anime, and includes a wide variety of cartoons from The Boondocks to Teen Titans.
I’m annoyed because you’re wrong. Take for example The Rose of Versailles, who’s main character I have as my name, pfp, and banner on this site. For the majority of the show, she’s an adult. She takes part in the French Revolution while she’s in her 30’s.
Or lets look at the 10 highest grossing Anime films. It has two teen romances, two fantasy actions films, a sports film, a fantasy film with anti-war themes, two fantasy adventure films, and two Ghibli films that are a bit harder to classify, Pony and Spirited Away. Only three of them have romantic overtones, and none have any sexual characteristics.
Adjusted for inflation, the highest grossing live action film is Gone with the Wind, which features a 16 year old about to get married, marital rape, civil war myths, and black stereotypes.
Give Howl’s Moving Castle a watch, it’s in that top 10 (it’s the anti-war one!), and it’s quite good.
“Anime” as the Japanese understand and use it is any sort of animated media. Pokemon is anime, SpongeBob is Anime, Pixar is digital anime. As most English speakers use the term, it’s just any animation made in Japan (or sometimes in the Japanese style).
I never heard of Detective Conan but it’s apparently a minuscule little 4 year old girl dressed in a suit and shorts? This is not helping any cases here.
Conan is a boy and what exactly is the sexualization here? He’s wearing shorts? I hate to break it to you but if you see a drawing of a young boy wearing shorts and think sexual thoughts about it then that says something about you, not the drawing or boys or shorts.
I mean look, I’m not saying that there isn’t a problem with sexualizing minors in anime, but it’s not really fair to tar an art from because some people use it to depict questionable things. America seems to put out a shit load of live action incest porn but it doesn’t make sense to lump all American live action media in with the sister fucking porn, right?
Only if you’re Japanese, by your own definition. Nobody else would call Spongebob anime, come on now. Why are so many here so over the top freaked out by criticism of sexualized cartoons of children?
it’s a champagne vs sparkling wine situation. taking the weeaboos seriously is a mistake.
Why are people on a discussion forum for adults familiar with children’s cartoons?
for the same reason they’re familiar with Spongebob. some art transcends age and it can be appreciated on it’s own merits.
People here are obviously very triggered due to an insecurity about their liking of a specific art form that they know, very shallow down, is dodgy as fuck.
as someone with several very specific trauma triggers, please don’t do this. it’s reactionary to refer to triggers as if the term means “mildly upset”. moreover, I’ve read this thread several times, and I think you’re projecting emotions onto others, moreso than anyone else getting worked up here.
as for myself, there’s generally more queer expression in anime than in western art so that’s what draws me to it. I feel more seen there. western depictions of queerness tend to be more pandering than what I find there, where there’s a lot more art that introspects on the queer experience. I’ve never sobbed so hard at art before seeing the ending to Revolutionary Girl Utena (because of how it mirrored an extremely specific personal experience I’m not going to share here) and that particular show is a favorite among trans women. I can’t pretend to understand why they tend to produce more of that kind of art (Japanese culture makes it fairly taboo – maybe it’s because of the taboo and the lack of corporate/public awareness about the queer subtext of these stories) but it’s hard to deny that they do.
if you want an example of a story that isn’t merely allegorically or subtextually trans, here’s an analysis of a cartoon that’s textually and unequivocally about a trans person coming to terms with their gender, using a framing device that trans people share with each other as a thought experiment to help them decide whether or not they’re really trans. and, as it’s discussed at the end of that video, the author isn’t merely some cis person writing about the trans experience. it’s very likely that they themselves are trans and are struggling to come to grips with that fact.
the shallow shit that panders to men is a complete non-starter for me, especially because I’m not attracted to women, so I can’t really comment on the artistic value of it.
I know this is off topic from both the OP and even more from OOP, and this thread is not really a good place for this, but I’m watching Utena right now and I’m loving it. I’m only half way through, but it has been amazing so far, all the way from the silly to the serious moments.
I’ve never sobbed so hard at art before seeing the ending to Revolutionary Girl Utena (because of how it mirrored an extremely specific personal experience I’m not going to share here) and that particular show is a favorite among trans women.
I hope it ends up touching me someway too, it’s been a while since a show made me really feel something, and that’s one of the reasons I love this medium so much. I’m gonna be honest, I’ve been really questioning my gender lately and I don’t know what I am right now, but it’s great knowing trans people love Utena so much!
Also, I agree with your statement about queer expression on anime. I only saw a few things, but it feels very different. Though I’m still new into looking for queer representation in general.
Do you have any recommendations be it anime or not? I really do want to continue exploring this after I finish Utena.
there’s a lot of stuff out there that’s “this character is trans but haha they’re actually not… but what if?”. like so, so much of it. like reddit regularly gets up in arms over “femboys” that live as women full time and will look into the camera and tell the audience “I wish I’d been born a woman” but the characters + marketing material misgenders them so reddit dies on the hill of “this character is actually a man”. Luka in Steins; Gate is such a prototypical example of this that I can probably just start calling this the Luka Theorem. don’t watch that show unless you want your heart to get broken and feel legitimate rage at a TV show over how much she gives up for the sake of a main character who’s straight up abusive towards her.
but I’m gonna be honest. I mentioned Utena because it’s the pinnacle of queer, animated art, at least from what I’ve seen, in terms of it’s deeply queer themes, it’s exploration of queer sexuality and gender. so many shows, from the Witch from Mars, to Steven Universe have paid homage to it, because it touches everyone who watches it so deeply. I suggest watching Kunihiko Ikuhara’s other, less well-known shows. I swear to god, he has to be trans because his works are invariably made for women and fembies – even the one that looks like it’s about sexualizing gay women is a direct attack on the rest of the anime industry for it’s treatment of gay characters and it’s well received by lesbians. Penguindrum is less obviously queer but it’s peak Ikuhara. I highly recommend it.
other suggestions:
the Rose of Versailles is the show Utena pays homage to, both in characterization and themes.
if you can get past a strong heaping of anime bullshit, Kill la Kill is both leftist and gay. the first 3 episodes make it out to be a typical shonen, down to the sexualization of teenagers, only for the camera to stop leering the second the main character starts to embrace her sexuality and starts wielding it as a source of power. I thought I was going to hate it but it ended up becoming one of my favorites. I will die on the hill of “it’s actually about left unity”. the men also get just as naked as the women and, once the revolution is done, they have a huge, nonsexual cuddle pile, which is really cute.
Madoka Magicka is extremely difficult to read as anything but a gay love story. and this is worth a watch if you’ve already seen the show, as an analysis of why the show isn’t merely anticapitalist but, rather, revolutionary.
Sailor Moon is beloved for a good reason. Ikuhara wrote the third season and the studio’s unwillingness to let him allow the women to kiss is what led directly to Utena. don’t watch the dub - they tried to retcon how gay the characters are. also don’t watch the new show. they tried to only tell the story, which is insane because the story is not why anyone watched the show. the result is that they turned a slice of life show into some kind of weird shonen and sucked all the humanity out of it.
Ouran High School Host Club is fantastic trans rep right up until they undo it all in the ending.
Land of the Lustrous has nothing but non-binary characters. it’s beautiful but gender doesn’t play a huge role.
there’s also a lot of stuff that reads extremely queer if you’re familiar with queer culture (I cannot begin to express how many times I’ve yelled “now kiss” or “bitch just transition” at my screen) but none of it was memorable enough to recommend right now. I’m slowly working through Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure right now and it’s fun from the perspective that it’s hot, buff dudes posing at each other and punching each other when they clearly want to kiss instead, but I can’t recommend it, at least so far, cause the politics started fairly reactionary.
From your other comments here, you’re overreacting.
Sexualized depiction of minors in anime is a HUGE issue, alongside hypersexualization of women in general too, but it’s not what the whole medium of anime is. The same way there’s a lot of bad stuff in the shonen genre (basically the category of anime whose target audience is teenage boys), there’s plenty of stuff that don’t do that, and there’s also stuff that actually criticizes that practice.
Anime movies from Ghibli and other works like Perfect Blue, for example, don’t rely on this this type of stuff. For anime series, Wonder Egg Priority is very pro-LGBT and criticizes Japan’s issues with sexual assault, all while having a cast of only girls without sexualizing them. There’s other works too like Trigun and The Promised Neverland that, as far as I remember, don’t rely on this type of sexualization at all, and these are not small niche anime, they are well known works.
Only if you’re Japanese, by your own definition. Nobody else would call Spongebob anime, come on now. Why are so many here so over the top freaked out by criticism of sexualised cartoons of children?
The point of what they said is that the Japanese call every type of cartoon Anime, but everyone else in the world only calls Anime specifically the animated media that comes from Japan, or in some cases animated media that uses the same style as the Japanese, for example, Avatar: The Last Airbender sometimes being called an anime.
Also, no one is freaking out about the criticism you’re giving, everyone agrees with you on this front, but you’re clearly uninformed enough to lump everything together as the same thing, without giving it a gram of nuance and material thought. Japan have a pretty big problem with these practices that are still unresolved, it is clearly gonna show up on some of the stuff they produce and they SHOULD be criticized for it, but this is not the type of stuff that is gonna change tomorrow, it takes time.
No, Detective Conan isn’t a “miniscule little 4 year old girl”, the main characters name is literally Jimmy. He’s a detective that got shrunk.
Also, none of the chibi versions of that girl have any tits, just the one that is obviously an adult. Chibi is generally used for over-exaggerated emotions or comedic relief, just look at RWBY Chibi or even Disney Chibiverse.
This is why I never got into Anime lol, so many fucking people like this who are into Loli shit, makes me physically repulsed to see
We have this whole culture around consuming simulated CSA material and we aren’t supposed to talk about it because ‘its just a drawing bro’
I am genuinely repulsed by the prevalence of Loli in anime. Every anime show someone tries to get me into has a little girl character. Even if she’s not overly sexualised it skeeves me out.
I am going to have to ask you not to conflate Anime with CSA and CSA material. While I my self do not watch Anime, I think it is ridiculous to think anyone here would get upset about you raising concerns about CSA if it where just a photo. However, from a thread here, there is compelling reason to see that Anime is not equivalent to CSA. For example Pokemon, is considered Anime, and from what I understand is a children’s show.
Anime is literally just Japanese cartoons. Comes in all varieties. Just demonstrates the speakers ignorance. Lots of them in this comment section
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The highest grossing and most watched anime in any given year are probably that year’s release of Pokemon, Detective Conan or Ghibli movie so I think your perception is warped by the filter of Westoid anime fans who hyperfixate on the kind of anime that can only air after midnight on Japanese broadcast TV.
Pokemon is anime now? Anyway another mystifying pile of shite. Never understood it.
I never heard of Detective Conan but it’s apparently a minuscule little 4 year old girl dressed in a suit and shorts? This is not helping any cases here. This is children’s programming, I mean for very young children.
Ghibli Never hear of either but I’m thinking that the definition of Anime is not just “any cartoon that is made in Asia.”
I just bought an expensive keyboard. Not a children’s toy, a serious mechanical keyboard for adults. It came with this set of stickers. Sexualised children with impossibly enormous tits. How is this normal? This is not “after midnight on Japanese broadcast TV.”
old person yells at clouds lmao
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what does that mean?
In case it was unclear, Im making fun of you for stuff like this
and not knowing what chibi artstyle is, thinking that those stickers are supposed to be children and getting big mad about that, as opposed to any of the real issues with anime and Japanese pop culture
not defending japans fucked up pedo shit, if thats what your comment is supposed to imply
Pokemon has been an anime for decades mate.
What isn’t anime? Just non Asian cartoons?
You know how to use a search engine, right? “Anime” is literally “animation originating from Japan”. When the style is used outside of Japan it’s “Animesque”. Pokemon is a “Japanese media franchise”.
The Japanese use the term for any animation, though, so these are mostly labels from westerners.
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I gave two definitions, the English one and the one for アニメ. The second definition is for context, it’s not like we’re speaking Japanese. Animesque isn’t a definition of anime, it’s very explicitly not anime, and includes a wide variety of cartoons from The Boondocks to Teen Titans.
I’m annoyed because you’re wrong. Take for example The Rose of Versailles, who’s main character I have as my name, pfp, and banner on this site. For the majority of the show, she’s an adult. She takes part in the French Revolution while she’s in her 30’s.
Or lets look at the 10 highest grossing Anime films. It has two teen romances, two fantasy actions films, a sports film, a fantasy film with anti-war themes, two fantasy adventure films, and two Ghibli films that are a bit harder to classify, Pony and Spirited Away. Only three of them have romantic overtones, and none have any sexual characteristics.
Adjusted for inflation, the highest grossing live action film is Gone with the Wind, which features a 16 year old about to get married, marital rape, civil war myths, and black stereotypes.
Give Howl’s Moving Castle a watch, it’s in that top 10 (it’s the anti-war one!), and it’s quite good.
Yeah I was just told that all cartoons are Anime so fair enough.
“Anime” as the Japanese understand and use it is any sort of animated media. Pokemon is anime, SpongeBob is Anime, Pixar is digital anime. As most English speakers use the term, it’s just any animation made in Japan (or sometimes in the Japanese style).
Conan is a boy and what exactly is the sexualization here? He’s wearing shorts? I hate to break it to you but if you see a drawing of a young boy wearing shorts and think sexual thoughts about it then that says something about you, not the drawing or boys or shorts.
I mean look, I’m not saying that there isn’t a problem with sexualizing minors in anime, but it’s not really fair to tar an art from because some people use it to depict questionable things. America seems to put out a shit load of live action incest porn but it doesn’t make sense to lump all American live action media in with the sister fucking porn, right?
Beat me to the punch by just a few minutes, knew I shouldn’t gotten distracted while writing my comment.
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it’s a champagne vs sparkling wine situation. taking the weeaboos seriously is a mistake.
for the same reason they’re familiar with Spongebob. some art transcends age and it can be appreciated on it’s own merits.
as someone with several very specific trauma triggers, please don’t do this. it’s reactionary to refer to triggers as if the term means “mildly upset”. moreover, I’ve read this thread several times, and I think you’re projecting emotions onto others, moreso than anyone else getting worked up here.
as for myself, there’s generally more queer expression in anime than in western art so that’s what draws me to it. I feel more seen there. western depictions of queerness tend to be more pandering than what I find there, where there’s a lot more art that introspects on the queer experience. I’ve never sobbed so hard at art before seeing the ending to Revolutionary Girl Utena (because of how it mirrored an extremely specific personal experience I’m not going to share here) and that particular show is a favorite among trans women. I can’t pretend to understand why they tend to produce more of that kind of art (Japanese culture makes it fairly taboo – maybe it’s because of the taboo and the lack of corporate/public awareness about the queer subtext of these stories) but it’s hard to deny that they do.
if you want an example of a story that isn’t merely allegorically or subtextually trans, here’s an analysis of a cartoon that’s textually and unequivocally about a trans person coming to terms with their gender, using a framing device that trans people share with each other as a thought experiment to help them decide whether or not they’re really trans. and, as it’s discussed at the end of that video, the author isn’t merely some cis person writing about the trans experience. it’s very likely that they themselves are trans and are struggling to come to grips with that fact.
the shallow shit that panders to men is a complete non-starter for me, especially because I’m not attracted to women, so I can’t really comment on the artistic value of it.
I know this is off topic from both the OP and even more from OOP, and this thread is not really a good place for this, but I’m watching Utena right now and I’m loving it. I’m only half way through, but it has been amazing so far, all the way from the silly to the serious moments.
I hope it ends up touching me someway too, it’s been a while since a show made me really feel something, and that’s one of the reasons I love this medium so much. I’m gonna be honest, I’ve been really questioning my gender lately and I don’t know what I am right now, but it’s great knowing trans people love Utena so much!
Also, I agree with your statement about queer expression on anime. I only saw a few things, but it feels very different. Though I’m still new into looking for queer representation in general.
Do you have any recommendations be it anime or not? I really do want to continue exploring this after I finish Utena.
there’s a lot of stuff out there that’s “this character is trans but haha they’re actually not… but what if?”. like so, so much of it. like reddit regularly gets up in arms over “femboys” that live as women full time and will look into the camera and tell the audience “I wish I’d been born a woman” but the characters + marketing material misgenders them so reddit dies on the hill of “this character is actually a man”. Luka in Steins; Gate is such a prototypical example of this that I can probably just start calling this the Luka Theorem. don’t watch that show unless you want your heart to get broken and feel legitimate rage at a TV show over how much she gives up for the sake of a main character who’s straight up abusive towards her.
but I’m gonna be honest. I mentioned Utena because it’s the pinnacle of queer, animated art, at least from what I’ve seen, in terms of it’s deeply queer themes, it’s exploration of queer sexuality and gender. so many shows, from the Witch from Mars, to Steven Universe have paid homage to it, because it touches everyone who watches it so deeply. I suggest watching Kunihiko Ikuhara’s other, less well-known shows. I swear to god, he has to be trans because his works are invariably made for women and fembies – even the one that looks like it’s about sexualizing gay women is a direct attack on the rest of the anime industry for it’s treatment of gay characters and it’s well received by lesbians. Penguindrum is less obviously queer but it’s peak Ikuhara. I highly recommend it.
other suggestions:
there’s also a lot of stuff that reads extremely queer if you’re familiar with queer culture (I cannot begin to express how many times I’ve yelled “now kiss” or “bitch just transition” at my screen) but none of it was memorable enough to recommend right now. I’m slowly working through Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure right now and it’s fun from the perspective that it’s hot, buff dudes posing at each other and punching each other when they clearly want to kiss instead, but I can’t recommend it, at least so far, cause the politics started fairly reactionary.
From your other comments here, you’re overreacting.
Sexualized depiction of minors in anime is a HUGE issue, alongside hypersexualization of women in general too, but it’s not what the whole medium of anime is. The same way there’s a lot of bad stuff in the shonen genre (basically the category of anime whose target audience is teenage boys), there’s plenty of stuff that don’t do that, and there’s also stuff that actually criticizes that practice.
Anime movies from Ghibli and other works like Perfect Blue, for example, don’t rely on this this type of stuff. For anime series, Wonder Egg Priority is very pro-LGBT and criticizes Japan’s issues with sexual assault, all while having a cast of only girls without sexualizing them. There’s other works too like Trigun and The Promised Neverland that, as far as I remember, don’t rely on this type of sexualization at all, and these are not small niche anime, they are well known works.
The point of what they said is that the Japanese call every type of cartoon Anime, but everyone else in the world only calls Anime specifically the animated media that comes from Japan, or in some cases animated media that uses the same style as the Japanese, for example, Avatar: The Last Airbender sometimes being called an anime.
Also, no one is freaking out about the criticism you’re giving, everyone agrees with you on this front, but you’re clearly uninformed enough to lump everything together as the same thing, without giving it a gram of nuance and material thought. Japan have a pretty big problem with these practices that are still unresolved, it is clearly gonna show up on some of the stuff they produce and they SHOULD be criticized for it, but this is not the type of stuff that is gonna change tomorrow, it takes time.
No, Detective Conan isn’t a “miniscule little 4 year old girl”, the main characters name is literally Jimmy. He’s a detective that got shrunk.
Also, none of the chibi versions of that girl have any tits, just the one that is obviously an adult. Chibi is generally used for over-exaggerated emotions or comedic relief, just look at RWBY Chibi or even Disney Chibiverse.
Anime is literally just the Japanese word for “animation” so… yes
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this is a very funny bit
this is a bit right?
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I just never found it interesting, but it’s insane people actually become attracted to such inhuman animations.