- cross-posted to:
- stuffandsuch@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- stuffandsuch@lemmy.world
This article does a great job of explaining people’s frustration with having to vote for Biden again. It’s long, so here are some quotes. They’re totally cherry-picked, I’d recommend reading the whole thing (especially if you think the problem started with Biden, and that Clinton and Obama were ever good choices).
during the 1980s and early 1990s, fears of a relentless Republican juggernaut pressured those left of center to take a defensive stance, focusing on the immediate goal of electing Democrats to stem or slow the rightward tide.
Today, the labor movement has been largely subdued, and social activists have made their peace with neoliberalism and adjusted their horizons accordingly. Within the women’s movement, goals have shifted from practical objectives such as comparable worth and universal child care in the 1980s to celebrating appointments of individual women to public office and challenging the corporate glass ceiling.
Each election now becomes a moment of life-or-death urgency that precludes dissent or even reflection. For liberals, there is only one option in an election year, and that is to elect, at whatever cost, whichever Democrat is running. This modus operandi has tethered what remains of the left to a Democratic Party that has long since renounced its commitment to any sort of redistributive vision and imposes a willed amnesia on political debate.
I mean, you probably should vote Biden this time, because he’s not all that bad, he’s done some good things. And trump is so terrible, it probably will be the end of democracy and the victory of fascism if he wins. Right? But what about in two years time, or four years, or eight years?
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Letting it all burn down won’t usher in an utopic constitutional convention of the people where we right all the wrongs.
Sitting out the election process is exactly what the pro-status-quo representatives and governors want, because that makes it easier to manipulate a desired election result. We’ve seen quite plainly over the decades that low voter turnout does not motivate the parties themselves to push electoral reform or different candidates. Those will only come with high turnout in the party primaries to get progressives nominated and elected at the state level where the authority lies to set the election rules (such as getting away from first-past-the-post). It may even require voting in Republican primaries depending on the district.
I wish we would make voting mandatory, but that’ll never happen for the reasons you pointed out.
I would love that. But only if it comes along with other things like all races have a “none of the above” option, some variety of ranked choice, and the winner must get 50%+1 of the eligible voters to win.
But during the 1980s and early 1990s, fears of a relentless Republican juggernaut pressured those left of center to take a defensive stance, focusing on the immediate goal of electing Democrats to stem or slow the rightward tide.
I wonder what might have happened between 1968 and 1992 that might have led them to do that
In those 24 years there was one Democratic president, who actually was pretty left wing (esp in American politics), who only served one term because he was widely unpopular with the electorate because the electorate in America at the time was a bunch of central-America-bombing Israel-supporting proto Nazis. Remember 1972, when Nixon of all fucking people got 520 electoral votes and McGovern of all fucking people got 17?
I don’t think it was just some weird Democratic-party plot to tack to the right. I think it was survival. I actually do think that there’s a golden opportunity now, with the way the electorate has shifted, for real lefty candidates to gain much more traction than the neoliberal crap, and I think most of the DNC hasn’t figured that out and just gets mad at it instead. Cf Bernie Sanders. But still, that doesn’t mean that even back in 1992 they were doing it on purpose to betray the electorate; I think it was the opposite.
True, the last Democrat was really unsatisfying, but this one is better; true, the last Republican didn’t bring destruction on the universe, but this one certainly will. And, of course, each of the “pivotal” Supreme Court justices is four years older than he or she was the last time.
This is about the point where I stopped reading. I was searching for some sort of concrete indication of why they’re saying that the Democrats are continuing to tack steadily to the right, when to me the arc of Clinton -> Obama -> Biden looks like exactly the opposite (quick rundown of why: tons of NATO bombing -> some drone strikes -> weak verbal-only opposition to Israel and sanctions on settlers) (or: welfare-to-work -> income inequality is flat at least -> big wage growth at the bottom end and massive increases in corporate tax). But no, they’re just repeating the assertion and the narrative, over and over, without explaining (anywhere that I saw) why they are asserting it’s that way.
I think what you’re saying really explains the struggle with the current Israeli government too. There were significant consequences for not being pro Israel enough and there are multiple past obligations that we are still beholden to as well. But for so long, that survival needed such obeisance toward Israel that to change that behavior is a massive challenge.
Yeah. All this generation of elderly statesmen thinks we’re still in the days of AIPAC and questioning Israel being political suicide. Now I think (at least for Democrats) it’s starting to become the opposite.
(Not that that excuses supporting Israel in the meantime. Biden had every opportunity to have this “come to Jesus” conversation with Netanyahu and back it up by withholding aid when Netanyahu inevitably laughed in his face, 6 months ago. Even that would have been well, well short of what in a moral world he should be doing, but it would have been a hell of a lot better than what happened.)
when to me the arc of Clinton -> Obama -> Biden looks like exactly the opposite
This is where I rolled my eyes and quit reading your comment.
In a few different places including the part of that sentence you chose not to quote, I gave some concrete reasons for my statement. You can, of course, loftily refuse to acknowledge them, if that’s your preference.
Bullshit is bullshit is bullshit.
Eh. The two parties used to be a lot more similar, never with Clinton or Obama was the dem-or-else mentality particularly strong. Swing voters have gotten rarer, but they used to be quite common. That’s a person that will vote for either party, depending on the individual. This was sensible because they weren’t as far apart from each other.
I mean, particularly with Obama vs Romney. Obama’s signature achievement? Obamacare. Romney’s signature achievement from his time as governor? Romneycare. And they were extremely similar, policy-wise. These folks tended to get called “moderates”, and it didn’t really much matter which party they were a “moderate” of.
Now the choice is between one of those old moderates, same as we’ve had, and a wannabe dictator. So, Trump makes things special.
And the major reason it was based on Romneycare was because it was feasible they would get some support from the conservatives that way and be able to sell it better to the country as a whole for being bipartisan, and for a while they actually played along. But the GOP decided that they couldn’t be seen to help a black man and in an unprecedented manner went full obstructionism in a direct line that leads us to today.
The labor movement is stronger today than any time in my life of forty years. It’s not what it was a century ago, but what is?
It’s honestly tiresome. I was caught up in the fervor of the Trump era, when it felt like the Democrats would finally, once it was their turn, start enacting fundamental changes to fix this mess of a country, but now that the combination of the pandemic stresses and the opportunity that results from chaos has died off, I more clearly remember the Obama administration and can watch the Biden administration affirm, they have no desire to make any changes necessary to truly help people or right the incredible wrongs of this nation.
I’m tired of liberal scolds who like to pretend Biden didn’t write the Clinton Crime Bill, hasn’t routinely granted more funding to police when possible, hasn’t increased the military budget and so on.
Tired of them acting like Biden will ever even attempt to fix the fundamental problems with this nation, like FPTP voting, lack of single payer healthcare, overly mitarized police and wanton expansion of civilian surveillance.
I know he’s one of the best President’s to date on climate and that people in the bottom quartile of income in the US have seen pay rises. It’s good, but it’s not enough. The Democrat’s method of incremental change feels like platitudes in the face of wanton use of power by the Republicans. As if they feel they need to be cautious and careful in their use of power to seem more legitimate in the public instead of wielding the office in a way that makes sweeping benefits to Americans.
I don’t think Biden is all that great, I have zero faith he’ll ever do anything to truly prevent this country from sliding to fascism in the future, he’ll just maintain the status quo and kick the ball to the next guy, just how every other Democrat does it and his successor surely will too.
So vote blue, whoopty doo, what else is there to do?
Student loan forgiveness, 15% minimum corporate tax, 40% emissions reductions by 2030, 7% increase in wages at the bottom end as compared with inflation even when inflation is at historic levels, NLRB providing legal backing for union activity for the first time in quite a while
And that’s only the shit they got done; what they passed as bills / orders but then the Republicans blocked was actually quite a lot more (much more aggressive versions of most of the above + marijuana legalization as a start)
Also, “democracy might end if Trump gets elected” is not some weird bogeyman; they already stormed the capitol with plans to kill the vice president and progressive congresspeople. The liberal press didn’t make that shit up to scare you; I can send you the videos if you want
Heck, right now, in this same Lemmy: https://lemmy.world/post/14467149
All about how Biden’s administration is expanding the Federal TItle IX protections:
The Biden administration on Friday will announce changes to Title IX, expanding protections for LGBTQ+ and pregnant students while overhauling controversial Trump-era guidance around how schools handled sexual assault cases.
And here people are acting like they do nothing.
Did we magically become a far left utopia? Of course fucking not. But Biden has been far more effective and progressive than I ever expected of him having grown up watching him. Does everything take far longer than it should? Yep, welcome to politics where one side is trying to tear down everything (quite literally) as it’s being built. Are things as progressive as I’d like? No of course not, but they’re frequently more progressive than I expected. That’s the unfortunate truth of how things get done.
And for all the people who are basically saying “I voted once and all my dreams failed to come true”, welcome to your civic duty. Vote the best way you can every election, especially local ones, and realize you’re trying to guide things through your entire lifetime not just 4 years and done.
Don’t send me shit.
What part of my last sentence didn’t get through? Fuck, the whole point of this article is that voters feel like they must vote for the DNC candidate despite not liking them, but they still vote for them.
Fuck, it doesn’t even matter how I vote because of where I live and how our broken ass voting system works. It goes Blue regardless. Y’all keep acting like the popular vote matters. If you aren’t convincing majorities of people in particular counties of swing states to vote, it doesn’t matter.
I’m sick and tired of people acting like it’s the people’s job to vote for whoever the Party puts forth instead of the Party being responsible for putting forth a likable candidate. That the onus lies on the voting block, whose job it is to simply cast their ballots for the DNC, instead of the DNC being any fucking bit responsible for selecting a candidate people want to vote for.
Don’t send me shit.
Did you misspell “factual information”? I gave concrete reasons for what I was saying. If that’s offensive to your narrative, that’s not my problem.
voters feel like they must vote for the DNC candidate despite not liking them
I think that’s pretty accurate, yes. I think that’s the result of the voters, by and large, having no idea what Biden actually tried to get done and got done. Are you interested in a factual discussion of, what’s his record look like? Or just wanting to repeat the narrative and get mad and curse at me when it’s questioned?
Fuck, it doesn’t even matter how I vote because of where I live and how our broken ass voting system works.
Yeah, pretty much. If instead of shitting on the Democrats in general you’d been talking about how bad we need to reform the voting system I’d be 100% agreeing with you.
I’m sick and tired of people acting like it’s the people’s job to vote for whoever the Party puts forth instead of the Party being responsible for putting forth a likable candidate. That the onus lies on the voting block, whose job it is to simply cast their ballots for the DNC, instead of the DNC being any fucking bit responsible for selecting a candidate people want to vote for.
Yeah, I feel you on this. I actually do think a lot of this criticism as applied against the DNC in general is 100% accurate in terms of their neoliberal crap and not listening to the ever-growing left in this country.
On the other hand, I think that’s kind of the nature of the beast – any large, wealthy country with a lot of levers of power is going to attract a whole bunch of rich people to try to grab those levers and not do real good things with them. That applies to the Democratic establishment as it does to the Republican establishment (though not to the same degree). I don’t think the answer to that though is to sit back and wait until some force comes from outside and resolves that situation and puts forth another Bernie Sanders just on its own initiative – I think it takes people putting affirmative pressure on the system to move to the left (including yes reforming the voting system and yes a lot of activism outside of the voting system).
I honestly agree with a lot of what I think is the core of what you’re saying, in terms of how badly the political machine in general in the US has betrayed the people. No one who lives in the US and looks around once in a while could think any different. I just think less engagement with the system and more cynicism about elements of it that seem to be doing good things is not the answer.
For what it’s worth, the swearing ain’t at you in particular, some people just curse like sailors. And I ain’t doubting the death threats, “shit” in that instance refers to “anything”. And I don’t wanna see it because I’ve seen it before. I clearly understand the existential threat that Trump and the RNC as a whole poses.
I don’t think Biden is doing enough to combat that. And I think the general attitude of trying to convince the utterly insignificant number of internet leftists that Biden is good is putting a lot of effort into things that bear little fruit. I don’t think there’s some majority of leftist voters in any single county that could make a difference in a federal election. Many of them live in liberal strongholds and their vote for a 3rd party or a write in for Mickey Mouse won’t move the needle.
I don’t think there’s some majority of leftist voters in any single county that could make a difference in a federal election.
The federal election in 2000 was decided by 537 Florida voters. That, to me, is within the realm of theoretically being possible for one single person (one volunteer doing consistent aggressive get-out-the-vote drives for example) to achieve.
Most of the time, it doesn’t happen that way (and there was a ton of standard-American-system corruption that put it in the realm of being that close when Gore was by any honest standard the clear winner). But in the aggregate, those single actions can make a difference, and at least in that one example yes it was very literally that up-for-grabs. And I think in hindsight, the 2000 election was a major decision point in what the future of America was going to be in terms of response to climate change, the growth of the fascist state apparatus, economic justice for the working class, killing brown people in the middle east, things like that. I think a large amount of the suffering we’re going through now – taking all the energy away from any positive progress and forcing us to focus on just stopping the bleeding and getting back to where we were – is continued follow-on impacts from getting Bush instead of Gore.
And, I think the 2024 election will have a much bigger impact than 2000, regardless of how hard the OP article tries to sarcastically poo poo that idea.
instead of the DNC being any fucking bit responsible for selecting a candidate people want to vote for.
That’s very apt…and they’re about to throw away Democracy as we know it due to their apathy.
So vote blue, whoopty doo, what else is there to do?
Treating this as an actual question and not rhetorical. There’s organizing for specific candidates and raising/donating money, ESPECIALLY down ballot. I 100% get being frustrated with the presidential choice, but they are only one part, and honestly a more minor part in your day to day.
Volunteering time for local races has a bigger impact for the amount of time one can put in. Could be letter writing, texting, or phone banking. Could be working for outreach in a local parade, table at a county fair, or door-to-door. I know people that ran for local races like school board where helping them raise $500 is a massive windfall and makes a huge difference.
Sure, keep Biden in to elect judges and sign legislation. Work to elect people locally to change the party.
And also, be aggressive as fuck in the primaries. Hillary Clinton called for “a show of unity” in her primary race and she can get fucked for that… I still voted for her in the general but during that primary I advocated strongly for Bernie.
Absolutely, primaries are for exactly that, the actual November election is about damage control.
