With an average U.S. new-vehicle selling price of just over $45,000 last month, many can’t afford to buy new — even though prices are down more than $2,000 from the peak in December of 2022, according to J.D. Power.
For light or commuter use maybe. Ive had three ford pickup trucks that have spent more time in the dealer shop than on my farm this year. And a waiting list over a month to get them in. Constant problems from day one. Recalls, premature breakages and issues i normally dont see until well past 150k miles. Mid duty or heavy duty use vehicles dont exits anymore. I cant even change brake pads on a new chevy truck without a computer reset at the dealer. It is beyond infuriating.
Hard disagree. Rust is a consequence of the material, not of the vehicle’s vintage. Furthermore, older cars are not only simpler and easier to work on, but also, parts are cheaper. If any 1990s Honda isn’t making it to at least 200k miles, its an anomaly.
What are you talking about? American made cars (majority of historical volume) were notoriously bad until recently. Hondas and Toyotas were the exception. Now the expectation is that every make/model makes it to 200k miles.
And rust was an issue because they used inferior paint on older vintages. I don’t see how blaming it on material deficiencies supports your point.
I think you’re conflating American-made and American-branded. Most of the Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc. vehicles are still made in the USA and are part of the majority market share you mention. These cars lasted 200k easily, and usually past the 300k mark.
That’s the case now, but not historically. The big 3 were making garbage cars until foreign companies expanded their US presence with domestic manufacturing. Widespread foreign makes built in the US is relatively recent.
Older cars for sure did rust faster because the manufacturers didn’t adopt galvanizing until the late 80’s. Then in the 90’s various other spray coatings and sealers became common. Aluminum is also now prevalent to save weight.
Old cars in the south and southwest didn’t have road salt accelerating the oxidation. But if they were brought up north they caught up quickly. Cars in the north prior to galvanizing would be rotted out in 100k miles easily.
Neat, i’m glad we agree. Early 90’s is still very early in perspective to this audience. I’m driving a '92 and that’s 32 years old now. The cars from that decade last much longer than the 100k quoted above. Also, this is beyond 2.5X the average quoted in the OP article. Clearly, these are “old” cars. In sum, the 100k-till-rust-apart claim isn’t anchored in reality.
Except that only started on luxury brands. And the Japanese brands have struggled with it the most.
Hondas were still well known for rusting out too quickly into the early 2000s. They even had recalls on 2007-2011 CR-V.
Toyota in 2016 settled a class action suit for multiple models from 2004-2008. And that was on top of a different recall for rusting that spanned 1995-2003 models.
Nissans still tend to have the transmission blow up before the car can rust out. But did have their own rust issues.
Basically, Japan doesn’t use road salt. And their engineers had much less experience dealing with it. But the issue has persisted way longer than it should have taken them to solve for.
Hell yeah! I love the Geos. My exes dad had a Geo Metro and that was a trip to take on the highway. I heard the drivetrain was easily swappable with a Suzuki Samari for an all-wheel drive conversion too.
My dad had a Geo Metro & was a travel nurse. Had that thing loaded down with all of his stuff and drove it from Baltimore to Phoenix. That little 3 cylinder did work.
Back in the 90s, there was a lady who drove a Geo Metro around my town with a huge bumper sticker that said (paraphrasing) in all caps: MY GEO IS DOWN TO TWO CYLINDERS. BACK OFF.
I had a Geo Prism that got like 40mpg in the city and never broke down, a 5 speed manual, I loved it, so efficient, but the body was awful, the door handles fell off, window handles broke, the steering wheel fell off! Also it was this warm gray color that was the color of the road, the fog, the sky on a cloudy day, had a stealth quality, I could speed right by cops but got rear ended a few times.
But that engine, I wish I could have just transplanted it into my next car.
They also last longer. Cars used to turn into a pile of rust before they hit 100k miles
For light or commuter use maybe. Ive had three ford pickup trucks that have spent more time in the dealer shop than on my farm this year. And a waiting list over a month to get them in. Constant problems from day one. Recalls, premature breakages and issues i normally dont see until well past 150k miles. Mid duty or heavy duty use vehicles dont exits anymore. I cant even change brake pads on a new chevy truck without a computer reset at the dealer. It is beyond infuriating.
Hard disagree. Rust is a consequence of the material, not of the vehicle’s vintage. Furthermore, older cars are not only simpler and easier to work on, but also, parts are cheaper. If any 1990s Honda isn’t making it to at least 200k miles, its an anomaly.
What are you talking about? American made cars (majority of historical volume) were notoriously bad until recently. Hondas and Toyotas were the exception. Now the expectation is that every make/model makes it to 200k miles.
And rust was an issue because they used inferior paint on older vintages. I don’t see how blaming it on material deficiencies supports your point.
I think you’re conflating American-made and American-branded. Most of the Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc. vehicles are still made in the USA and are part of the majority market share you mention. These cars lasted 200k easily, and usually past the 300k mark.
That’s the case now, but not historically. The big 3 were making garbage cars until foreign companies expanded their US presence with domestic manufacturing. Widespread foreign makes built in the US is relatively recent.
Yeah in the 80’s people in the US were freaking out about Japanese cars but in the end the US cars became better in order to compete
Older cars for sure did rust faster because the manufacturers didn’t adopt galvanizing until the late 80’s. Then in the 90’s various other spray coatings and sealers became common. Aluminum is also now prevalent to save weight.
Old cars in the south and southwest didn’t have road salt accelerating the oxidation. But if they were brought up north they caught up quickly. Cars in the north prior to galvanizing would be rotted out in 100k miles easily.
Neat, i’m glad we agree. Early 90’s is still very early in perspective to this audience. I’m driving a '92 and that’s 32 years old now. The cars from that decade last much longer than the 100k quoted above. Also, this is beyond 2.5X the average quoted in the OP article. Clearly, these are “old” cars. In sum, the 100k-till-rust-apart claim isn’t anchored in reality.
Except that only started on luxury brands. And the Japanese brands have struggled with it the most.
Hondas were still well known for rusting out too quickly into the early 2000s. They even had recalls on 2007-2011 CR-V.
Toyota in 2016 settled a class action suit for multiple models from 2004-2008. And that was on top of a different recall for rusting that spanned 1995-2003 models.
Nissans still tend to have the transmission blow up before the car can rust out. But did have their own rust issues.
Basically, Japan doesn’t use road salt. And their engineers had much less experience dealing with it. But the issue has persisted way longer than it should have taken them to solve for.
There’s a guy in my neighborhood who occasionally brings out a neon purple Geo Storm and it makes me smile Everytime I see it.
Hell yeah! I love the Geos. My exes dad had a Geo Metro and that was a trip to take on the highway. I heard the drivetrain was easily swappable with a Suzuki Samari for an all-wheel drive conversion too.
My dad had a Geo Metro & was a travel nurse. Had that thing loaded down with all of his stuff and drove it from Baltimore to Phoenix. That little 3 cylinder did work.
Back in the 90s, there was a lady who drove a Geo Metro around my town with a huge bumper sticker that said (paraphrasing) in all caps: MY GEO IS DOWN TO TWO CYLINDERS. BACK OFF.
I always enjoyed that lady.
I had a Geo Prism that got like 40mpg in the city and never broke down, a 5 speed manual, I loved it, so efficient, but the body was awful, the door handles fell off, window handles broke, the steering wheel fell off! Also it was this warm gray color that was the color of the road, the fog, the sky on a cloudy day, had a stealth quality, I could speed right by cops but got rear ended a few times.
But that engine, I wish I could have just transplanted it into my next car.
Then Chevy bought them & discontinued everything because who wants a budget vehicle that runs forever?
The newer cars aren’t any harder to work on for driving related functionality. Or, at least they’re not any harder than they were 20 years ago.
The electronics are a layer on top of a relatively legacy layer of “car”.