I lived there for about three years in total from 2013-2020. I’m not Chinese and I’m also so I hung out with queer Chinese people and went to queer events but felt like a double outsider so I’m not confident in my response…
I’d say queerness is accepted (or at least ‘tolerated’) in China but not advocated. There’s progress in some areas but sliding in others.
cw queerphobia/patsoc
spoiler
(western LGBTQ+ ‘pride’ is unfortunately sometimes seen as bourgeois decadence… I’ve seen an uptick in stuff on WeChat and bilibili specifically deriding the west for its collapse with the title/comments 男人守国门，女人守血脉 Men protect the country, women protect the bloodline’). This extends to a dislike for the ‘soft’ idol culture of 娘炮 ‘sissy’ men from south korea and japan, based on China’s historical and recent animosity. The french Olympics opening ceremony was a huge flashpoint for that, same as it was here)
I’m not in the country right now so I can’t say if this has translated into the lives of queer comrades being harder over there (I would be surprised if it hadn’t, but, not sure to what degree)
China’s also a huge place so, while Shanghai and Beijing may have prominent gay bars, clubs and districts, a third-tier or smaller city may have just a bar in a given district that’s known to the locals as ‘that place’. A lot of young queer people will be closeted until university or they start working, and move out of the home and to a different city, even a different province or across the country (and the country js huge). During this time, it’s kinda their window to be themselves, until they graduate or get to their late 20s when there’s an expectation from parents/grandparents that they pull their head in and have child(ren).
Despite the above, there are still people who have a live and let live mentality, which I’d say is pretty common. China’s a huge place with lots of people living different kinds of lives, it’s surprisingly tolerant in a kind of way that people can just do their own thing.
I maintain that capitalist imperialism is using rainbow capitalism as part of a larger effort to scapegoat the failings of capitalism onto minority groups.
western LGBTQ+ ‘pride’ is unfortunately sometimes seen as bourgeois decadence
I’m curious, is the US currently funding pro-LGBTQ+ groups/rhetoric inside of China? I imagine if Xi passed a serious LGBTQ+ rights law (perhaps on a similar level to Cuba’s recent law), would such funding from the US quickly switch to anti-LGBT groups?
I can imagine US dissent funding to skip LGBTQ+ entirely to focus on “underground churches”. A lot of us in the west grew up being told Christianity was illegal in China, despite there being millions of Christians in China openly attending openly Christian churches. I wonder if anyone has done a video essay on that kind of topic.
Groups no, not to any large degree. The Foreign NGO law that came into effect in 2017 saw a contraction or closure of many groups across different sectors. Incidentally, a number of WeChat groups I was in/accounts I followed also closed over that time. The foreign NGOs definitely funded smaller local NGOs and when that money and support dried up, they shut up shop.
As for rhetoric, I would posit yes. s don’t look
spoiler
Short form video content is the main vehicle I’ve seen because it’s so easy to set up a douyin (tiktok) or WeChat ‘channel’ and subtitle western anti-LGBTQ+ content. I’ve seen JBP content under supposed ‘English learning’ channels (their channel name will be something like ‘English Everyday’. They have few followers but there are so many that I’m almost certain they’re O/S funded/supported. I’ve also seen way too much Andrew Tate and a surprising number of Christian Ministers being reupped. I block the JBP, religious stuff and block and report the Tate stuff but it comes back. I also use WeChat to learn Chinese so I usually try to avoid the English-language content but it still comes through.
Then there’s the overseas Chinese who film their lives and share on WeChat, and be like ‘oh look how life is over here in Ontario/Adelaide/Bristol’. Usually it’s like ‘heres a supermarket, here’s a hospital, here’s a school’ but occasionally I’ve seen these vloggers go to pride parades, or protests and their coverage is usually negative and the comments tend that way too. I’m guessing that’s because expats tend to be wealthier/more conservative so this is likely incidental, but this content is usually better received than the JBP stuff because it’s Chinese language, is presented as objective slice of life. If there were overseas funding of anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric, this would be an effective vehicle. Hasbara is already onto it within and outside China in turning people against the Palestinian cause but they’re absolutely hopeless at it and get called out 99% of the time, thankfully.
It’s hard to give a full picture because of the nature of these apps and the tailored fyp, but I want to get across as someone who actively avoids that content, I still get it. Just as bad as YouTube I’d say.
In my assessment, both pro/anti narratives are already there and are being pushed in equal measure, they’re two sides of the same coin, and dirt_owl is on the money that rainbow capitalism as a deliberate effect is shifting the ills of capitalism onto minority groups. The anti-LGBTQ+ narrative is almost directly being imported from the west too. Capitalism gets you on the swings and the roundabouts.
I lived there for about three years in total from 2013-2020. I’m not Chinese and I’m also
so I hung out with queer Chinese people and went to queer events but felt like a double outsider so I’m not confident in my response…
I’d say queerness is accepted (or at least ‘tolerated’) in China but not advocated. There’s progress in some areas but sliding in others.
cw queerphobia/patsoc
spoiler
(western LGBTQ+ ‘pride’ is unfortunately sometimes seen as bourgeois decadence… I’ve seen an uptick in stuff on WeChat and bilibili specifically deriding the west for its collapse with the title/comments 男人守国门，女人守血脉 Men protect the country, women protect the bloodline’). This extends to a dislike for the ‘soft’ idol culture of 娘炮 ‘sissy’ men from south korea and japan, based on China’s historical and recent animosity. The french Olympics opening ceremony was a huge flashpoint for that, same as it was here)
I’m not in the country right now so I can’t say if this has translated into the lives of queer comrades being harder over there (I would be surprised if it hadn’t, but, not sure to what degree)
China’s also a huge place so, while Shanghai and Beijing may have prominent gay bars, clubs and districts, a third-tier or smaller city may have just a bar in a given district that’s known to the locals as ‘that place’. A lot of young queer people will be closeted until university or they start working, and move out of the home and to a different city, even a different province or across the country (and the country js huge). During this time, it’s kinda their window to be themselves, until they graduate or get to their late 20s when there’s an expectation from parents/grandparents that they pull their head in and have child(ren).
Despite the above, there are still people who have a live and let live mentality, which I’d say is pretty common. China’s a huge place with lots of people living different kinds of lives, it’s surprisingly tolerant in a kind of way that people can just do their own thing.
I maintain that capitalist imperialism is using rainbow capitalism as part of a larger effort to scapegoat the failings of capitalism onto minority groups.
Frighteningly I think it’s working to a significant extent.
I’m curious, is the US currently funding pro-LGBTQ+ groups/rhetoric inside of China? I imagine if Xi passed a serious LGBTQ+ rights law (perhaps on a similar level to Cuba’s recent law), would such funding from the US quickly switch to anti-LGBT groups?
I can imagine US dissent funding to skip LGBTQ+ entirely to focus on “underground churches”. A lot of us in the west grew up being told Christianity was illegal in China, despite there being millions of Christians in China openly attending openly Christian churches. I wonder if anyone has done a video essay on that kind of topic.
Groups no, not to any large degree. The Foreign NGO law that came into effect in 2017 saw a contraction or closure of many groups across different sectors. Incidentally, a number of WeChat groups I was in/accounts I followed also closed over that time. The foreign NGOs definitely funded smaller local NGOs and when that money and support dried up, they shut up shop.
As for rhetoric, I would posit yes.
s don’t look
spoiler
Short form video content is the main vehicle I’ve seen because it’s so easy to set up a douyin (tiktok) or WeChat ‘channel’ and subtitle western anti-LGBTQ+ content. I’ve seen JBP content under supposed ‘English learning’ channels (their channel name will be something like ‘English Everyday’. They have few followers but there are so many that I’m almost certain they’re O/S funded/supported. I’ve also seen way too much Andrew Tate and a surprising number of Christian Ministers being reupped. I block the JBP, religious stuff and block and report the Tate stuff but it comes back. I also use WeChat to learn Chinese so I usually try to avoid the English-language content but it still comes through.
Then there’s the overseas Chinese who film their lives and share on WeChat, and be like ‘oh look how life is over here in Ontario/Adelaide/Bristol’. Usually it’s like ‘heres a supermarket, here’s a hospital, here’s a school’ but occasionally I’ve seen these vloggers go to pride parades, or protests and their coverage is usually negative and the comments tend that way too. I’m guessing that’s because expats tend to be wealthier/more conservative so this is likely incidental, but this content is usually better received than the JBP stuff because it’s Chinese language, is presented as objective slice of life. If there were overseas funding of anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric, this would be an effective vehicle. Hasbara is already onto it within and outside China in turning people against the Palestinian cause but they’re absolutely hopeless at it and get called out 99% of the time, thankfully.
It’s hard to give a full picture because of the nature of these apps and the tailored fyp, but I want to get across as someone who actively avoids that content, I still get it. Just as bad as YouTube I’d say.
In my assessment, both pro/anti narratives are already there and are being pushed in equal measure, they’re two sides of the same coin, and dirt_owl is on the money that rainbow capitalism as a deliberate effect is shifting the ills of capitalism onto minority groups. The anti-LGBTQ+ narrative is almost directly being imported from the west too. Capitalism gets you on the swings and the roundabouts.