Armed troops and tanks made their way to the square on the night of June 3 and into the morning hours of June 4. They soon shot those who stood in their way and crushed those who wouldn’t move out of it.
Once again, that’s not out of line with what he and I said. There were barricades and fighting in the streets of Beijing and the army killed whoever got in their way to the square, but the people occupying the square were negotiated with and peacefully dispersed. They then once again took all the ammo from the soldiers.
I don’t understand why you think it’s important to insist that nothing happened precisely inside Tiananmen Square, but you are perfectly happy for a massacre to have occurred in, say, Changan Avenue.
Anyway, to respond to the original challenge rather than argue your questionable morals.
Because it’s what happened. It’s not a point of morals or anything else. The other poster is making a value argument that I don’t particularly agree with, but when it comes to the reality of what happened, they’re grounded. Go read the Wikipedia article.
A handful of protesters killing cops and soldiers does not justify indiscriminate murder, particularly when you consider it the government’s responsibility to make sure protesters never get to the point that they feel the need to lynch and burn cops to achieve their aims. I didn’t think I needed to spell that out.
Nobody is happy that a massacre happened, there’s a huge difference between “10,000 unarmed protesters were murdered by tanks in cold blood because they wanted freedom, that’s how you know that China is a totalitarian police state that murders anyone who protests” and a more complex situation where ~300 protesters were killed after lynching a couple dozon cops and soldiers.
The Chinese government didn’t handle the situation correctly, even by their own evaluation, evidenced by the president of China resigning, and future protests being met with much more compromise, even in cases where the protesters were absolutely in the wrong, (such as anti-covid protesters or NIMBYs opposing the expansion of the shanghai maglev)
it’s only 300 people so it’s not a massacre argument
That’s not what I’m saying at all.
Combined with the above photos, this seems closer to the truth than the official 300 Chinese story.
The photo of students filling the square is from days before the massacre, the square had been evacuated peacefully, as evidenced by the Tank Man video showing the tanks leaving the empty square, with no piles of burning bodies and “tank pie” as the UK alleges.
300 people getting killed by cops due to the government’s failure to compromise and meet their demands is a tragedy, the fact that the protesters felt they needed to resort to violence to achieve their aims is a part of that.
You don’t need to make up shit about tanks murdering 30x more people and then liquefying their corpses.
Once again, that’s not out of line with what he and I said. There were barricades and fighting in the streets of Beijing and the army killed whoever got in their way to the square, but the people occupying the square were negotiated with and peacefully dispersed. They then once again took all the ammo from the soldiers.
I don’t understand why you think it’s important to insist that nothing happened precisely inside Tiananmen Square, but you are perfectly happy for a massacre to have occurred in, say, Changan Avenue.
Anyway, to respond to the original challenge rather than argue your questionable morals.
A tank set ablaze by protesters burns in Tiananmen Square on June 3.
A Chinese armored personnel carrier, with crushed bicycles stuck to its side, sits in Tiananmen Square on June 4.
Because it’s what happened. It’s not a point of morals or anything else. The other poster is making a value argument that I don’t particularly agree with, but when it comes to the reality of what happened, they’re grounded. Go read the Wikipedia article.
The other poster is trying to claim nothing bad happened inside Tiananmen Square itself, and it was the protestors that were the real aggressors.
This is bullshit.
The situation escalated because reserves from outside Beijing were drafted in, who had no friends or relatives protesting.
A handful of protesters killing cops and soldiers does not justify indiscriminate murder, particularly when you consider it the government’s responsibility to make sure protesters never get to the point that they feel the need to lynch and burn cops to achieve their aims. I didn’t think I needed to spell that out.
Nobody is happy that a massacre happened, there’s a huge difference between “10,000 unarmed protesters were murdered by tanks in cold blood because they wanted freedom, that’s how you know that China is a totalitarian police state that murders anyone who protests” and a more complex situation where ~300 protesters were killed after lynching a couple dozon cops and soldiers.
The Chinese government didn’t handle the situation correctly, even by their own evaluation, evidenced by the president of China resigning, and future protests being met with much more compromise, even in cases where the protesters were absolutely in the wrong, (such as anti-covid protesters or NIMBYs opposing the expansion of the shanghai maglev)
So we are now trying the, it’s only 300 people so it’s not a massacre argument. Seeing as you bring up the 10,000 number, let’s look at the source.
The Chinese army crackdown on the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests killed at least 10,000 people, according to newly released UK documents.
Combined with the above photos, this seems closer to the truth than the official 300 Chinese story.
That’s not what I’m saying at all.
The photo of students filling the square is from days before the massacre, the square had been evacuated peacefully, as evidenced by the Tank Man video showing the tanks leaving the empty square, with no piles of burning bodies and “tank pie” as the UK alleges.
300 people getting killed by cops due to the government’s failure to compromise and meet their demands is a tragedy, the fact that the protesters felt they needed to resort to violence to achieve their aims is a part of that.
You don’t need to make up shit about tanks murdering 30x more people and then liquefying their corpses.