I mean, it gives deference to rich people, but when it was legal to discriminate against POC, they had a massive disadvantage in pretty much every aspect of their lives. Not perfect, but much improved now…
Capitalism is the Sociopath’s Ideology and hence it will always promote the use of any power advantages to exploit the less powerful, with no consideration for the fellings of others or harm done to them, for fairness or for morality.
Which is why it had to be something outside Capitalism to push for fairer treatment of POC and even then every single day in America it’s an uphill fight for those amongst them who remain disadvantaged: that previous exploitation of them as powerless due to their ethnicity meant that when the discriminatory treatment on the color of their skin was reduced (not eliminated, but certainly comparativelly much reduced), they ended up poor people and hence still the victims of discrimination and exploitation, because the poor too are less powerful than most and hence exploited to the max under Capitalism, and as an overexploited group it’s incredibly harder for them to pull themselves out of poverty or help their children do so, which means that situation is entrenched.
Why not? Capitalism is private control over the factors of production - it’s not “equal freedom” or anything like that. The American South was capitalist during chattel slavery.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.
An economic system based on predominantly private (individual or corporate) investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods and wealth; contrasted with socialism or especially communism, in which the state has the predominant role in the economy.
A socio-economic system based on private property rights, including the private ownership of resources or capital, with economic decisions made largely through the operation of a market unregulated by the state.
A socio-economic system based on the abstraction of resources into the form of privately-owned capital, with economic decisions made largely through the operation of a market unregulated by the state.
A specific variation or implementation of either such socio-economic system.
An economic system based on private ownership of capital.
This isn’t necessary for all of them, but from Wikipedia:
A state is a political entity that regulates society and the population within a territory.
Slave masters are regulators of population, so they are an actor of the state.
If I tell you to get the fuck out of my way I also regulate population but I’m not the state. Note that even your definition says ‘a’, not ‘the’.
Also, and more importantly, enslaved people are seen as property (and thus also as means of production) instead of population. IIRC this goes back to the definition of populace back in Ancient Greece but I can’t be arsed to look it up.
If I tell you to get the fuck out of my way I also regulate population but I’m not the state.
Regulate would mean a legal basis to dictate/legislate to.
Note that even your definition says ‘a’, not ‘the’.
You’re going to have to be a bit more specific than that, there are a lot of "a"s
Also, and more importantly, enslaved people are seen as property (and thus also as means of production) instead of population.
Yes, that is how they were seen by some people. And those people were wrong. If I become a tyrant and declare I’m the only real person and everyone else is my property, then seize all their property- is that capitalism? Because 1 person just owns all the property? No, its because the definition of person is wrong. Enslaved people were still people, so they could not be property, even though the law claimed they could be.
Controlling yourself means you have monopoly on force on yourself, meaning you are a state consisting of just yourself? Sounds like a pretty chill state.
Africans enslaved and sold other Africans by the millions for centuries before white people arrived on the continent. Though they certainly made it worse when they did.
People enslaved their opponents in war for essentially as long as humans have existed, until we decided slavery was an evil we should avoid. However, this was not generally chattel slavery. Usually their offspring were not slaves and they were not bread to create more slaves, like livestock.
I’m not sure you have enough of a historical framework on population to make the claim you’re mindlessly repeating, but I appreciate that you “people” out yourselves so readily so normal humans can avoid you. Good luck on truth social or Facebook or x I guess.
It matters a lot. Chattel slavery is what Europe brought to Africa. It’s a particularly violent and cruel form of slavery. The “Africans also had slaves” argument is a fallacious one as the systems of slavery were very different. We could say the same thing for “wage slavery” today to demonize that or to lessen the hatred of chattel slavery. The intent of the message was to dismiss the harm, which should not be done.
Classical slavery was practiced for a time in Europe as well, and chattel slavery was not exclusive to European diaspora; It was also practiced by Imperial Japan on Koreans and Chinese, for instance.
You usually see this sort of comment when people are trying to dismiss the harm done by Europeans during the slave trade. It’s usually done to say the Africans were already participating, so the Europeans did nothing wrong and were just willful participants. The Africans were barbarians naturally. They created the system and not the Europeans, who just happened to end up capitalizing on it. This isn’t true. It’s white suprimist apologism and should be countered whenever it’s seen, not indulged.
White capitalism is what made black people slaves and pushed them into poverty.
Perhaps we need new ideas that help everyone.
This is just called capitalism.
I mean, it gives deference to rich people, but when it was legal to discriminate against POC, they had a massive disadvantage in pretty much every aspect of their lives. Not perfect, but much improved now…
Also Black Wall Street got hate crimed off the face of the earth, so I’d say “white capitalism” is fair enough.
Capitalism is the Sociopath’s Ideology and hence it will always promote the use of any power advantages to exploit the less powerful, with no consideration for the fellings of others or harm done to them, for fairness or for morality.
Which is why it had to be something outside Capitalism to push for fairer treatment of POC and even then every single day in America it’s an uphill fight for those amongst them who remain disadvantaged: that previous exploitation of them as powerless due to their ethnicity meant that when the discriminatory treatment on the color of their skin was reduced (not eliminated, but certainly comparativelly much reduced), they ended up poor people and hence still the victims of discrimination and exploitation, because the poor too are less powerful than most and hence exploited to the max under Capitalism, and as an overexploited group it’s incredibly harder for them to pull themselves out of poverty or help their children do so, which means that situation is entrenched.
Technically Capitalism isn’t an ideology, but a state in development of the productive forces. Liberalism is the ideology of Capitalism.
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Capitalism and slavery are incompatible.
Why not? Capitalism is private control over the factors of production - it’s not “equal freedom” or anything like that. The American South was capitalist during chattel slavery.
And that’s not even getting into wage slavery.
If someone is legally exercising force over someone else, they are a de facto entity of the state.
Are you just making up phrases at this point? Show us where in the definition of capitalism that human rights exist.
From DuckDuckGo:
This isn’t necessary for all of them, but from Wikipedia:
Slave masters are regulators of population, so they are an actor of the state.
If I tell you to get the fuck out of my way I also regulate population but I’m not the state. Note that even your definition says ‘a’, not ‘the’.
Also, and more importantly, enslaved people are seen as property (and thus also as means of production) instead of population. IIRC this goes back to the definition of populace back in Ancient Greece but I can’t be arsed to look it up.
Regulate would mean a legal basis to dictate/legislate to.
You’re going to have to be a bit more specific than that, there are a lot of "a"s
Yes, that is how they were seen by some people. And those people were wrong. If I become a tyrant and declare I’m the only real person and everyone else is my property, then seize all their property- is that capitalism? Because 1 person just owns all the property? No, its because the definition of person is wrong. Enslaved people were still people, so they could not be property, even though the law claimed they could be.
Yep, capitalism is inherently statist. Ancapistan is just a bunch of little states.
Controlling yourself means you have monopoly on force on yourself, meaning you are a state consisting of just yourself? Sounds like a pretty chill state.
🤡
https://lemmy.world/comment/12834412
already addressed
I don’t know who stole your history book, but you should probably go look for it.
It was Marx, Marx stole it.
What on Earth does that mean?
Dumb joke because I was just responding to an insult
I’m just going to assume this is sarcastic, because I refuse to believe that anyone actually believes this, even eager capitalists, themselves.
If it’s somehow not sarcastic, you are either ridiculously ignorant about the world and it’s history, or blatantly lying.
It is not sarcastic
Africans enslaved and sold other Africans by the millions for centuries before white people arrived on the continent. Though they certainly made it worse when they did.
People enslaved their opponents in war for essentially as long as humans have existed, until we decided slavery was an evil we should avoid. However, this was not generally chattel slavery. Usually their offspring were not slaves and they were not bread to create more slaves, like livestock.
This is a good read if you want to learn more.
I’m not sure you have enough of a historical framework on population to make the claim you’re mindlessly repeating, but I appreciate that you “people” out yourselves so readily so normal humans can avoid you. Good luck on truth social or Facebook or x I guess.
I think their point was fair, Rome had slavery unrelated to color, as did many other places.
They did not have chattel slavery.
Why does that distinction matter?
It matters a lot. Chattel slavery is what Europe brought to Africa. It’s a particularly violent and cruel form of slavery. The “Africans also had slaves” argument is a fallacious one as the systems of slavery were very different. We could say the same thing for “wage slavery” today to demonize that or to lessen the hatred of chattel slavery. The intent of the message was to dismiss the harm, which should not be done.
Ah of course, European exceptionalism.
Classical slavery was practiced for a time in Europe as well, and chattel slavery was not exclusive to European diaspora; It was also practiced by Imperial Japan on Koreans and Chinese, for instance.
It’s still exploiting them. I don’t think it was intended to dismiss the harm at all.
You usually see this sort of comment when people are trying to dismiss the harm done by Europeans during the slave trade. It’s usually done to say the Africans were already participating, so the Europeans did nothing wrong and were just willful participants. The Africans were barbarians naturally. They created the system and not the Europeans, who just happened to end up capitalizing on it. This isn’t true. It’s white suprimist apologism and should be countered whenever it’s seen, not indulged.