- cross-posted to:
- trump_watch@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- trump_watch@lemm.ee
On election night, as the results looked to be in Trump’s favor, the baseless conspiracy theories about fraud began tapering off.
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Isn’t that weird?
It’s almost like they didn’t believe in their own claims.
Or they don’t want anyone investigating their victory too closely
They already caught republicans doing shady shit before Tuesday. Who knows how many they didn’t catch.
No, the narrative just changed. Good luck convincing anyone the 2020 election wasn’t stolen ever again.
“I told you. In 2020 we won all 50 states. Voter fraud by the millions. I was saying it all along. But we worked hard, we passed laws for election integrity, we watched the polls and they couldn’t cram their 10, 15 million votes into the boxes again. And look what happened. Instead of winning by 8 million votes, she lost by 6 million votes. Which is what should have happened last time.”
This is the narrative I’ve been hearing. The voters that just stayed home simply never existed in the first place, as far as they’re concerned. He’s going to use this victory as proof of his claim that he should have won last time, voter fraud was rampant, and Democrats are cheaters. And it’s going to work.
And it’s going to work.
Well, let’s face it - the target audience for such stupid narratives are his base, and they are dumb as a box of rocks.
Please don’t insult them. Boxes of rocks can still serve a purpose and don’t deserve to be denigrated like that.
No box of rocks ever called me a ______. Insert a slur!
No box of rocks ever had his picture taken with Jeffrey Epstein!
Remember that half of the population is below average.
I’m assuming that other 2% had other motivations.
That’s honestly now how averages work. Most of the population is roughly average.
If roughly is within one standard deviation from average then most of the population is roughly average and half are below and half are above
Below average? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Should we tell him who was president in 2020 and who was president in 2024? Oh right, it doesn’t matter to them as long as they repeat it a million times.
And used to support the claim to change voting in some way, or do away with it at least for Federal level.
No, not true. They are saying that this time they knew to watch close, so the Democrats couldn’t pull of the same fraud as 2020. They are indeed stating that it is “supisious” that 13 Million Democratic voices where nowhere to be seen this time around, taking that as proof they were right all along.
That’s how this works. You take reality and then make it mean what you want it to mean. So that’s their take in regards to voter fraud.
That’s how this works. You take reality and then make it mean what you want it to mean.
What’s “fun” is when you realize an awful lot of people do this with an awful lot of topics all the fucking time. Probably including yourself.
I would say everyone does it. Confirmation bias isn’t something you can completely avoid. You can try to recognise it in yourself, but most of the time it’s a lot more subtle. As simple as reading something you agree with and not going to check the source. We ALL do that.
Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug
Absolutely. I try to counter it by beeing aware and checking M opinions against facts where possible. But I am sure there are many topics where I don’t fully succeed or I haven’t caught myself doing it yet.
It’s an extremely common aspect of human psychology to make up a story to explain the results of an event or reasoning for your actions after the fact.
It’s even been demonstrated in specific cases in studies of people who’ve received brain hemisphere bifurcation to prevent grand mal seizures.
The side of the brain responsible for speech is not shown information or things the individual must complete, then when asked why they performed such an action, the speech responsible side of the brain will spontaneously make up a resonable sounding story to explain it.
I highly recommend checking it out. It’s an absolutely fascinating look into human psychology
I’m sure I do this same thing all the time subconsiously, and I’ve certainly noticed it in others.
Sounds like free-wil denial pseudo-science
To be fair, this research comes from a limited number of patients and is from the 1950s and 60s, a time not exactly known for its accurate assumptions in the field of neuroscience, lol.
Yeah, much like frontal lobotomy, severing the corpus collosum (sp?) was a popular treatment for a variety of mental issues for a time. But much like doing really elaborate twin studies on nature vs nurture it’s really hard to do a lot in that area without violating ethical rules today.
You really have to be a stupid person to be a Republican these days. Wild.
Given their penchant for projection, has anyone considered that the fraud was coming from inside the house?
I believe we have one of the most secure elections in the world. I don’t believe in conspiratorial bullshit. I’m just saying, anything the Republicans accuse others with is frankly evidence that they are doing it themselves.
They tell me immigrants are eating pets? Yeah I’m going to say there’s definitely a non-zero chance that republicans are out there picking up roadkill cats and dogs. I mean Kennedy has probably done that 100 times himself.
So if the Republicans accuse Democrats of creating millions of fake votes I doubt it’s possible to do, but let’s double check anyway because now they’ve made me suspicious.
They literally had their supporters burn drop-off ballot boxes and destroy ballots. They literally intimidated other voters. They harassed poll workers and volunteers whose entire purpose is to ensure everyone who is eligible to vote has everything they need in order to do so. Yet no one is batting a fucking eye. THESE FUCKERS STOLE THE ELECTION. 15 million less votes than what Biden got and Trump got about the same as he did when he ran before. This stinks of interference.
I don’t think that the physical interference would have been enough to turn this one. The interference in the media/social media however was definitely the root cause to this. Along with Democrats shifting more right than they have in decades
Can we also consider that intentionally making it harder to vote in Democrat leaning counties in otherwise Republican States is electoral fraud? Because it kinda is.
If you remove the word kinda, your comment becomes true
I believe we have one of the most secure elections in the world.
That’s unfortunate.
It’s very true. Voter fraud is statistically non-existent here.
I know this to be true, and I am very angry at the mistakes the Dems made in this campaign. But 15 million less Democrat voters? That seems like a LOT of people deciding to stay home. If you told me Jill Stein got 15 million votes, I’d find that easier to believe than 15 million just stayed home compared to 2020.
With record turnout out early voting. Don’t forget about that. The news were throwing that around a week before.
My co-worker and I were talking about that last night. I told her that it’s amazing that not one fucking republican as uttered those two words, “voters fraud”, since Tuesday night. Isn’t it amazing how that is no longer a problem??? The fucking hypocrites!!!
I told her that it’s amazing that not one fucking republican as uttered those two words, “voters fraud”, since Tuesday night.
Oh, I’ve heard them use those words, mostly in context of claiming that their watchful eyes prevented those evil Democrats from being able to do it this time. You know, because the party that can’t win without voter suppression and gerrymandering believes that they are the party that can’t lose without voter fraud.
It’s always projection. ALWAYS.
And yet I still have Facebook friends posting about how “all the states Kamala won are the ones that don’t require photo ID…”
Of fucking course. These people really should try breathing through their noses.
Those aren’t your friends. Those are Nazis.
We know they’ve tried electoral interference before, what are the chances they did it again this and it worked this time?
The GOP winning at all means it worked, just as it has in the past. Gerrymandering, voter purges, limiting access, corrupt judiciary, prisons, dark money groups, etc. That is how the GOP has won for several decades. They have NEVER been able to win a fair democratic election on a national level.
I know that most progressives are just crying in their beer and looking for someone in their party or an adjacent political group to blame, but why isn’t more attention being brought to the many many efforts by Republicans and their overseas allies to corrupt the election and disenfranchise Democrats? I’m disgusted by the institutionalism that leads our leaders to call and congratulate the fascists rather than holding our own rallies to demand accountability for election irregularities.
It’s really odd to me that they just quietly conceded and moved straight to complaining about the loss. Conservatives have been screaming about election fraud for years and every accusation is a confession with them…I would not be surprised if the numbers are fictional
Because it doesn’t matter anymore. Elections are over and won’t be happening again.
Ye! I hate how many people are talking about trump as if his reign will only be 4 years. They’ll martyr him, and Vance will take the over dictatorship, then before elections happen again, some “emergency” will arise to let him declare martial law and cancel elections.
Folks, we’re living in Nazi Germany now. Go read up on it. The people at the top of maga certainly have.
We need to start being more French about these things.
Now they also control the social media platform that liberals and leftists used for organizing.
And good luck getting most people off of social media controlled by conservatives. Facebook/Twitter is digital heroin to A LOT of people.
It’ll go in waves. Currently both the Fediverse and BlueSky are cozy places, and as they continue to further decay, both are going to gain more and more users. I’m less on these kinds of platforms, but I started to instead doomscroll way less and either watch more videos or are more productive. We maybe even should call this movement “social media detox”.
Half the country not showing up to the polls didn’t help
Absolutely. I place most of the blame here on voters. Even with all those GOP shenanigans in place, a majority of Americans made a choice. I’m well aware the Democratic Party didn’t do itself any favors but the people ultimately decided that this is what they wanted. It wasn’t win or lose, it was a choice between two clear outcomes and they picked authoritarianism.
Traitors, every one of them.
How common was voter purge this time around? Could it have impacted people who voted early?
My grandmother’s doctor was told his mail-in vote wasn’t counted, then he came in person to vote and they arrested him for “fraud”
I mean, if you’re talking about fake ass twitter accounts and grifting, they did that in plain sight.
But these strategies should be well known by the democrats by now and they aren’t invulnerable to counteracting. It’s simply the case that less people showed up to vote this election than previous ones, I guess.
Schrödinger’s voter fraud
Don’t worry, they’ll still have Biden, Clintons, and Kamala to blame for all of Donnie’s mistakes.
Don’t forget Obama!
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Sorry, there was just an orange turd that made a law that made it illegal to not call him that
Thanks adespoton!
Wait so I can’t just tweet, without context anymore just…
RIGGED!
No worries, they’ll claim voter fraud next set of elections and by 2028 there won’t be elections to claim fraud on.
Nah I’m pretty sure this was our last real presidential election. The rest will be pure spectacle and will be used for fund raising and entertainment purposes only.
Does that mean we’re handing candidates swords instead of doing debates?
They’ll use proxies, unfortunately. Hire out of work Democrats to do the actual fighting.
In the last few months, he claimed that “we have all the votes we need”, and his followers didn’t need to vote anymore, they were going to win. I immediately thought he meant they were going to cheat. I can’t find the place he said this, it was at a rally. It’s not the same as his comment that he made to a bunch of christians that said they won’t have to vote again in the future because they were going to “fix it”. This was after that. This guy is a lifelong con man, he lies and cheats. Somehow I believe he did that in this election. I hope they find out he paid for votes because that’s just his style.
My wife literally just told me this today. Apparently he said it multiple times - someone made a supercut. I haven’t seen it yet myself.
Ah, so now it’s time for baseless accusations from our side, yes?
As long as there is no proof this is as much a conspiration theory as the the bullshit the right was spewing about in 2020.
Ah yes, it’s exactly the same with no differences, surely Trump isn’t known to be a cheat and a liar from every single other interaction he’s ever had with a human being. Surely he hasn’t stated publicly his intentions to cheat the election. No, he’s a perfect human being and we’re all just shouting about voter fraud because we’re stupid.
Ah yes, it’s exactly the same with no differences,
Not what I said.
surely Trump isn’t known to be a cheat and a liar
I think it need more than one person to cheat on this scale, no?
Surely he hasn’t stated publicly his intentions to cheat the election.
He hasn’t. He said they need no more votes. You are taking thins one thing he said and pretending it’s “intention to cheat the election.”. Which is simply not true. It could also mean that he is sure he will win, because he thinks he has got all the states he needs on his side. I’m sure there are more interpretations. But that’s all it is.
No, he’s a perfect human being
Never said that.
we’re all just shouting about voter fraud because we’re stupid.
Never said that. Your angry, hurt, what ever. Emotional. And I understand that. I’m absolutely devasted by this shit. And I see how one might jump to conspiracy thinking in such a situation. I just don’t think it helps, so I’ll call it what it is. Not to attack you, as a person, or to call you names. Just because I don’t think it’s helpful.
I think we (as in “the left”) should try to base our opinions on facts and not repeat the shit the right is doing all the time, throwing baseless accusations around.
That’s fair, and I’m sorry to have been an asshole about it. I deserve that. However, conspiracy thinking or no, I think it’s extremely valid to be suspicious of these results. There are quite a lot of factors at play here that can cast what I consider to be reasonable doubt over this whole situation.
Sure, don’t jump right to conspiracy theories off the bat, fair enough. But also don’t be blind to what is in front of us. Things don’t add up here in a way that makes sense to me. In particular, I question the fact that nearly 1 in 2 Latino voters voted to deport themselves and their families, and I find it difficult to believe that 15+ million other voters who showed up to vote for Joe Biden, didn’t show up to vote for Harris. It was all the same threat, magnified, with a much more palatable upside than the first time and a much more clear view of the alternative. These people should have been, and by all accounts were, even more motivated than in 2020. This is the most politicized election we’ve had in over a century, nobody didn’t hear about this.
The whole thing just stinks. It stinks all to hell and I think I’m justified in believing the conservatives pulled off a successful steal this time just like they’ve been promising to, not least of which is because by the time I woke up after election night everyone had already decided none of the Dems showed up and Trump had won, when according to gov websites the final vote tally and certification isn’t even until mid December. I’ve never seen election results get called so early that I can remember. I saw three different news stories about conservatives setting ballot boxes on fire. Our gerrymandering maps are so bad they can be confused for TV static from a distance. Millions of people had their voting registration purged by state level conservatives weeks or days before the election.
I think a little bit of suspicion surrounding the results is beyond justified.
That’s fair, and I’m sorry to have been an asshole about it.
No worries. We all have to cope with this some way or another and sometimes that mean beeing a bit of an asshole. I don’t take it personal, I understand where you are coming from.
I question the fact that nearly 1 in 2 Latino voters voted to deport themselves
Latin are a conservative bunch by nature. Many of the progressiv view the left hold, regarding for example masculinity and feminism, stand in contrast to their culture. (This is a very broad statement that does not aplly to all Lations!) And many think that it’s not going to be them that will be deported, it will he those Mexican drug smugglers. Which is a delusional view to hold, in my opinion. Same fore for queer folk voting red. But it is want it is and the data we have from polling and voting do add up in regards to Lations.
I find it difficult to believe that 15+ million other voters who showed up to vote for Joe Biden, didn’t show up to vote for Harris.
Yes, that’s hard to swallow, I agree. Maybe it’s because the last vote happened with Corona in the backdrop? Maybe Trumps many Errors where much more fresh on the mind of so many. Maybe inflation kept people from trusting the Democrats. Maybe some just won’t vote for a female. Or a black person. Or, god forbid, both. Lots of possible reasons. I do think we should try to understand them and filter them on in the future.
This is the most politicized election we’ve had in over a century, nobody didn’t hear about this.
Yes, but that means you also listen to 2 party’s accusing one another of beeing the devil / literaly Hitler for one year plus. I see how people who are not that interested in politics can get numb to this.
because by the time I woke up after election night everyone had already decided none of the Dems showed up and Trump had won, when according to gov websites the final vote tally and certification isn’t even until mid December.
This realy sound exactly what republicans said in 2020.
I’ve never seen election results get called so early that I can remember.
That’s because they were realy very obvious this time. It didn’t come down to just a couple of votes in swingstates like in 2020.
According to this 2016, 2012 and 2008 where called on simular schedules or earlier. 2020 was an outline because of the amount of mail in votes.
I saw three different news stories about conservatives setting ballot boxes on fire. Our gerrymandering maps are so bad they can be confused for TV static from a distance. Millions of people had their voting registration purged by state level conservatives weeks or days before the election.
All of there are fair points, and they should be handled in two ways: Take evidence to the courts where illegal things happend. And try to change the system where fraud has been made legal.
Regarding both points i think it is a very real possibility that the window to deal with them is past and the Trump administration will solidify and widen them. This might have been our last fair election.
My only hope is that it goes like last time and they are at each other’s throuts for 4 years or just to incompetent to do to much that has lasting damaged. But I’m not betting on that. I think this time they will come prepared. And it will be the end of America as it is now.
You’ve been very reasonable about this in the face of my ranting and I appreciate it. I specifically don’t want to become “blue MAGA” and level heads like yours are what’s going to prevent a lot of us from going there. I’m still mad, and I still think this all needs attention and isn’t getting it, though. I don’t know what to do about that other than crow about it on the internet or show up to the white house. I don’t think either of those are good ideas.
One person is not a conspiracy theory. “I believe…” is what I wrote. Trump is a convicted criminal, proven liar and a deadbeat who stiffs people. It’s quite logical to look negatively on an individual who admires dictators and the worst genocidal person in history (so far).
One person is not a conspiracy theory
Sure, but you are not the only person here, who is taking that narrative.
Sure Trump is a fucking Bastard. But we hit quite hard on the right for speeding their conspiracy “stolen election” shit in 2020. I just don’t think it’s sensible to turn that around. With clear cut evidence: sure thing. But just making the accusation… Na, not so much.
And yet we are comparing one persons speculation against the man who has lied on record over 30+ thousand times while he was pretending to be president. We are all entitled to our opinions. I am not leading the charge to be like maga but blue. If I was, you would be correct in screaming at me because you should tell people they are in a cult. I was bring up a possibility that the nasty orange nazi probably broke the law, again. Because, that’s his actual job.
I honestly don’t see how I am or was screaming at you and u apologise if it came across as such. You are stating your opinion, which you indeed are entitled too. I am stating why I disagree. I am not attacking you as a person, or trying to belittle you for it. I simply don’t think it beneficial (for the left) to hold the view you have stated without evidence.
Trump is a con man and a liar, absolutely. But for pulling of something on this scale it needs way, way more than one person. And all of them would have to hold tight, no leaks what so ever. That just doesn’t sound realistic to me. I do hold the view hat we should base our opinions in fact, not speculation. I don’t mean this as an attack. Ist just my view.
I am also not accusing you or anyone of beeing in cult.
I said it before to another person here, I’ll say it again: I understand how you, how we all are angry, hurt, devasted even after this election. I share those emotions very much.
I still don’t think we should copy the behaviour of the other side. I know you feel justified in your option. So do they. That doesn’t make it more or less true though. Cult like would leave no room for discussion what so ever tough. I think we have that room, and are engaging in it right now. I think indeed the very fact that we are able to exchange opinions on this shows how this is very much not a cult.
Gosh, so they aren’t going to organize a “stop the steal” that is designed to specifically steal an election?
I wonder if the government still controls the weather?
Its almost as if, I don’t know, every single thing out of their mouth is completely fucking bullshit
