- cross-posted to:
- futurology@futurology.today
- cross-posted to:
- futurology@futurology.today
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The headline overreaches as the article doesn’t support the passport dying as much as some early exploration into potential digital variants, and some convenience efforts to not have to show the passport.
Dying would be “most people use the digital variant, it’s accepted everywhere and we’re phasing out the paper variant”… which sounds like it might happen on the same timeline as large scale fusion energy
Clickbait/Ragebait Journalism in a nutshell.
I don’t have a mobile phone. How is that supposed to work? Will owning a specific object and attached subscription to a private entity be mandated by law?
More and more not complying with digitalization will get you into trouble. I don’t think it will be mandatory but expect to run into delays, similar to how you technically have the right to refuse the x-ray-like machine at airport security, but doing so is time consuming, everyone will hate you for it, and cause you significant delays, on top of making you look suspicious.
And it sucks.
I quit flying (domestically, at least) over the x-rays and TSA bullshit. I’m driving 13 hours today in order to avoid that particular security theater.
Can’t wait for high speed rail to be common and cheaper in Europe. I just hate everything about airports and flying. I already only fly if I have time constraints. I’ll gladly take a train for 10 hours instead of a 1 hour flight (which requires more than 1 hour commuting, being 2 hours early, waiting for luggage, then commuting back, so that 1 hour is more like 4).
Trains in the US are starting to have some of the same security measures as airlines… :(
I heard Luigi shot the paper passport as a warmup.
Literally shoot me if this becomes a reality. I don’t want my ability to travel to be dependent on something with a steadily dying battery.
Not just a dying battery, but a fragile screen, malware, and a tendency to get stolen.
If anything, I wish they made passports into the size of a regular ID so it fits in a wallet/cardholder and you don’t have to worry about it getting folded or wet. Make visas and stamps digital so a chip scan of the card provides all the info, instead of eye/face recognition/tracking.
That would be great, sure- but all I really want is boarding passes to be the same size as the passport. They go together, so why don’t they make them so they actually go together?
Angrily tries again to read seat number, obscured by the rumpled creases from the bit that sticks out from the passport getting folded in a pocket
If you are in America, you can get a passport card!
The card is for U.S. citizens who travel by land and sea from Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and some Caribbean countries.
The link also mentions you can use it in place of other id cards in domestic flights, but I’ve heard some TSA agents don’t believe it exists.
Certainly not as useful as a full blown passport, but it is a thing. I am hoping it gets more usage over time.
I think the problem with a digital passport is that while that’s fine in very developed countries, you’ll alwadys need a physical human readible stamp to show authorities when they don’t have a digital reader.
For many years now whenever I travel within EU I use my EU identity card and it’s very convenient. Would indeed be great if I could use something like it outside EU as well.
You probably can, not just in non-EU Schengen countries (i.e. EFTA) but also a couple of other select places. E.g. Egypt will let you in with a German ID card if you have two extra images with you so they can issue you a small cardboard visa. Wouldn’t recommend it in Egypt though, banks, hotels etc. might not recognise ID cards.
But that’s really the main issue: The country will have to issue a visa and that has to be recorded in some way. It could, in principle, be completely electronic and online, but that requires that their IT systems can actually use the electronic features of your ID card and that everyone who might have to check your visa has to have a card reader and a connection to the state’s servers.
Rationally I agree, but at the same time I actually really like the passport booklet. I don’t know, it feels so much more official.
Yeah. The fact that our my country’s primary ID document is an easily-damageable paper booklet is very annoying, especially given the fact that in 99% of cases, only one page - the laminated one with the name and photo - is needed! That page could easily be a plastic card.
In my passport that page is basically a plastic card, same as my ID card, just a bigger format
I only recently learned that English word for “Passport” refers to the document needed for travelling - and yeah, ours also have a plastic card like this. But weirdly, the actual internal ID which is used a lot more just has a laminated paper page in this place.
Before they made the ID a plastic card we also used to have a laminated piece of paper as ID. I agree, it’s not very convenient!
They do in the US if you live in a border state, but it’s only valid for Mexico/Canada. Think the idea is having space for physical visa stamps, but I don’t see why they’d prefer that to a digital visa tied to something unique in the passport.
The passport card is good for boats and driving, not for flying.
Right, which is likely why they’re only offered in border states.
As the other commenter said, any US citizen can get a passport card. They also double as a Real ID for federal identification.
Nope - they’re available nationally
You can get a US passport card. It only works for Canada Mexico and some Caribbean islands though. The tech is already there.
Passports have already been like that for a few decades (minus the card part. Some countries still need and/or use the paper pages.)
From the article, it sounds more like they’re using shared databases and facial recognition more than smartphones or similar. So they’d presumably have the requisite devices at customs.
That doesn’t sound better. I get the shared databases, though it does introduce security issues. But the facial recognition that’s been proven flaked and flawed and based on biometric data that can be leaked and never changed… no thank you.
Fantastic, because we all know facial ID has no problems identifying non-white people.
I can see it now: Idris Elba getting picked up by the feds because O’Hare fired this thing up and recorded 700 Idris Elba’s All boarding different flights using different names.
Agreed. And even if there are devices plugged in and always running and (miraculously) always functional, what do you do in a disaster situation where all infrastructure is knocked out? That is the exact time you’d want to make sure there are no impediments to foreign support being able to enter the country. But with nothing physical to fall back on for identification, what would you do?
I’m all for digitizing currency and the like, I really never carry cash anymore. But ID documents are still crucial to have physical copies of, and the passport remains the only internationally recognized standard.
I am very much against digitizing currency as well. Not every place has connectivity, financial apps might have a problem running on custom ROMs like Graphene (which would probably be getting worse now), and most importantly - having ALL your transactions surveilled and agregated makes one uneasy.
I say don’t worry. There’s no way they will be able to change this system anytime soon. Even if airports are able to accommodate the change, it will be extremely hard for all borders and other checkpoints to do the same. We know how slow progress is for stuff like this. If this is implemented, it will not mean passports won’t still be required for a long time. My guess is a minimum of 20 years at the least before seeing any change.
New film plot: the airport’s facial recognition system can’t tell the difference between the intended copilot and their identical twin, a terrorist. Question is, is it a comedy about bureaucracy or an edge-of-your-seat thriller?
“Starring Dwayne Johnson and Kevin Hart”
¿por qué no los dos?
Hard to do well—too much tone whiplash. I suppose it could work as very black comedy, with the right script and director. 🤔
Globally, this is becoming a thing. Many states have digital IDs already.
Realistically, both paper with a chip or QR code should be valid for a while.
Your passport is already machine readable and contains biometric data. It doesn’t really make much of a difference.
Just charge your phone then?!?
“You’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy”
I mean, you never owned your passport, ever.
If you look at the very first page, it says “ property of the US government” and then there’s some blurb about tampering being a felony.
Same thing for a diver’s license. You don’t own it, your state does.
I do agree that moving to digital identification is a huge mistake. It’s too easy to lose access to a digital device or account. Or have it spoofed in some way. I’d much rather have a physical ID that won’t run out of battery or have a glitch that makes accessing it impossible for an unknown length of time.
Thats a bit tame, first page of the British passport is:
“His Britannic Majesty’s Secretary of State requests and requires in the name of His Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary”
Oi you, this is my mate and you’re going to look after him, alright.
lol a passport should come with a TOS agreement 300 pages long.
I mean it kinda does, except the TOS agreement is literally the law.
Plus the republicans would lose their damn minds over this prospect. E-ID for elections? Never.
If you look at the very first page, it says " property of the US government"
I’m pretty sure the USA does not own my South American and European passports nor my driving licences
No, but your government probably does.
Or is this too abstract a concept to extrapolate.
I think the previous person was just giving a shitpost style reply
I’ll add this to the list of things that were working just fine that we’re about to break along with using a passport to board a plane.
There is no way EU will go along with this passport alternative, no matter how much google and apple lobby them
Germany will be thst last country to allow such level of digitalization.
Hard pass
“One day there will be no borders, no boundaries, no flags and no countries and the only passport will be the heart” - Carlos Santana
But also we’ll track everyone everywhere they go, with facial recognition.
We’ll go extinct eventually so that’s true.
What if I told you the idea of a passport was invented about 600 years ago and nobody needed permission to travel before that
I’d say that’s a neat factoid.
no paywall https://archive.ph/pKO54
No it’s not? Literally just got a new passport and they didn’t say anything about digital passport
This is called manufacturing consent. News media tells you what future the elites want so it seems inevitable and desired when they force it through. Alternative futures can never be considered.
This is called manufacturing consent.
No, the proper term is “clickbait”. If there’s no drive to make this a reality, don’t invent one and attribute it to shadowy forces.
The headline says dying, not dead. And the article is about new methods of ID verification, some of which are already in place. I fly for work a lot, and I rarely have to show any ID nowadays. Clear gets my ID from an eye scan and gives that to TSA. Delta and Air France use my face scan at the gate instead of checking my passport when I fly internationally. The only check for my passport now is when I drop off my bags.
That new passport of yours most likely has a chip in it already so you can just swipe it a a border on one of those big machines with cameras… most new passports do… yay.
I have 3 passports, how does it know which one I want to use?
The “solution” to this will be that you’ll only be allowed to have one at a time. Choose and choose wisely. Changing will mean a huge amount of paperwork each and every time.
Inconvenient? Tough. Unless you’re rich.
There’ll be a tier of “known persons” who will be allowed travel without needing a passport, a bit like how it already works for the British monarch (and probably others I don’t know for sure about).
