“marital duties”

My male perspective, from that phrase alone, is that he’s an asshole.

and asked how I would react if he just stopped paying the mortgage because he was “too tired.” (For context, I cover about 45% of it

And that just further supports my initial assessment.

But I didn’t think saying no when I’m sleep-deprived and emotionally drained was unreasonable.

It wasn’t.

And the fact that you said no should be sufficient all by itself, and not even just as a sign of respect. From a selfish position it should still be sufficient, since nobody with any measure of concern for their partner should be able to enjoy sex they know to be unwilling.

do most guys feel this way?

That I don’t know. I can say that not all do, but especially at this point in time, more than I’d think reasonably possible do.

That’s sort of immaterial though, since they’re wrong, and remain wrong no matter how many other assholes agree with them.

Even if a change in circumstances is temporary, does a wife have an obligation to always meet her husband’s needs?

Categorically no.

Now that said, a wife should feel some desire to at least try to accommodate her husband, since that’s the nature of partnership, and depending on ones personality, one might treat that as an “obligation.” I’m not sure that that’s healthy, but i see no intrinsic problem with it. But an obligation in the externalized sense - something another might reasonably demand of you rather than something you might demand of yourself? Absolutely not, under any circumstances.

What’s actually a “good” reason to say no?

I want to say any reason, but I don’t think that’s quite true.

I’d say any reason that’s internally valid is okay, which is to say, because you’re tired/emotionally drained/physically ill/just not in the mood/etc - anything that’s an honest expression of your emotional/physical/psychological state and the simple degree of desire you feel.

The bad reasons to say no are things that are other-directed - things like the desire to belittle/punish/torment/manipulate/etc. ones partner.

A good reason to say no is when you don’t feel up to it, period. I’ve had similar issues with my partner, so I understand his frustration. However, it stemmed from repeatedly having to initiate and being turned down. So our work around was if I get turned down a couple times in a row, the expectation is that she will then initiate as soon as she’s up for it. I have a high libido too but you still have to understand that your partner may be going through stuff and not take it personal when they say no. Why burn a long term relationship because your partner is having a rough time in the short term?

Also, phrasing it as “wifely duties” just feels sorta weird to ick for me.

He told me that “marital duties” aren’t something you can just neglect based on how you feel in the moment and asked how I would react if he just stopped paying the mortgage because he was “too tired.”

Yeah just, borderline inappropriate imo.

I’ve been a husband for almost 20 years now. “I don’t feel like it” is plenty of fucking reason for not having sex. Full stop.

You are under no obligation to provide him with your body whenever he wants it. There are plenty of ways for couples to foster intimacy that aren’t sex.

What would he do if you had cancer and just couldn’t because of treatment?

What would he do if you were in a parasailing accident and in a full body cast?

This behavior is gross, I get having a drive etc. But that’s his problem, not yours.

Remind him he’s got a hand (or he can buy a fleshlight) and the internet if he’s feeling that frustrated.

It is always okay to say no.

If that means you and your partner are sexually incompatible, you should talk it out and consider what that means for the future of your relationship.

You are completely valid for not wanting to have sex when exhausted, just as your partner’s desire is valid.

Based solely on your side of the story, your partner saying you aren’t fulfilling your marital duties is kind of a red flag. Conservatives tend to make poor partners in general.

Anyway, some couples therapy might help if you can afford it and are at an impasse. But I’d keep an eye out for other red flags you might be subconsciously ignoring/suppressing if I were you.

“when is it reasonable to say no to sex?”

Whenever you don’t feel like it.

He’s not entitled to sex, but that goes both ways. You’re not entitled to a relationship.

I’ve been in a dead bedroom situation, and it messes with your mind. You begin to believe you’re not attractive, and you’re just a room mate or worse, a free source of money and labor. Easy way for depression to sink in.

Now it’s just one day, sure, it’s fine. But if it goes on for a while, like for six months or so, I wouldn’t expect to be in a relationship anymore.

HOWEVER, four times a week is a far cry from a dead bedroom. Dude needs to get over it. If it bothers him that much, if he really needs sex every day, there’s porn. And if not, there’s the door.

If he compares sex to paying the mortgage as a “marital duty”, then kindly remind him that the reason you’re tired is because you’re working more difficult shifts to financially contribute to the “marital duties”. He’s welcome to pick up more slack himself, sounds like he has plenty of energy.

Nevermind how goddamn icky that phrasing feels…that is highly manipulative language that does not come from a place where your best interests are at heart.

It is always reasonable to say no to sex when you don’t want to have sex. If you aren’t in the mood, you aren’t in the mood.

“Martial duties?” Dude. Ewwww. You are never obligated to have sex.

The short answer to the post title is: always.

Nobody’s ever entitled to sex, married or otherwise. To me, any other position is a slippery slope into coercion or domestic abuse. A relationship is based on trust if nothing else, and there are some red lines that should never be crossed.

That said, I hate binary arguments as much as the next person, and the key element to navigate the grey area is communication. I’ve worked shifts in the past and gotten home to a partner with the horn, and as much as I love intimacy, it was a case of “sure crack on, but you’re doing all the work”. That said, there’s been times when I’ve been like “absolutely not”, I’m in no position to ride a bus let alone a partner.

Whatever answer you give is the answer that should be respected. Yes, it’s frustrating sometimes but life gets in the way - kids, appointments, longer-than-expected shifts, bereavements, financial pressures (including the conscious decision to work extra), or even mental or physical health in general. It doesn’t affect the answer of whether it’s right to say “no” or not though.

Even if a change in circumstances is temporary, does a wife have an obligation to always meet her husband’s needs? What’s actually a “good” reason to say no?

I’m so sorry to barge in here and answer, because I’m not a man. However, I wanted to chime in because I was once in your position for far too long.

Sex should be a mutual thing between partners. You are not EVER “”“obligated”“” to give it, nor do you “”“owe it”“” to your partner. Sex is NOT a transactional thing. And if you are being told that is it, you are being lied to. Currently, it seems that it is being weaponized to force you to ignore your needs, simply to fulfill the physical lust of someone else, robbing you of much-needed recovery.

He is not entitled to you. You do not owe him. You can say “no” for ANY reason and it is absolutely valid.

My opinion would just be a rehash of the comments you’ve already gotten, so I’ll spare you that.

Do you have children with this guy? If not, good. He seems to have the outdated idea that you “owe” him sex on demand. It’s especially worrying that he made that mortgage remark the morning after you’d both had time to think (AND after he’d already gotten what he wanted). You’re not his sex slave. He’s conveniently ignoring the fact that you’re tired because you’re working extra shifts to help his sister. I’m guessing that he’d have a similar attitude after expecting you to raise the children all day, which is why I asked if you had children.

What is his parent’s marriage like? Does your father-in-law seem like the dominant one, while your mother-in-law is more passive and submissive? Maybe he just wasn’t raised in an environment where equality mattered.

If you plan on spending the rest of your life with this man, a frank discussion of expectations and boundaries may be uncomfortable, but will ultimately be good for you both.

Sex is not owed and, between romantic partners, is usually not transactional. Either partner should be free to turn it down for any reason whatsoever. Pressuring someone isn’t cool, guilting someone into it is manipulative. I can’t even imagine following through on doing it with someone who wasn’t into it from the start, that’s a total turn off for me and I would feel disgusting afterwards.

“marital duties”

Ew. Talk about inciting “the ick”.

[…] asked how I would react if he just stopped paying the mortgage because he was “too tired.”

It was wildly inappropriate to bring this up at all. Personally, I see this as a huge red flag for manipulative behavior. I probably would have answered by saying that everybody gets down and needs help from time to time, and that in that situation I would find a way to be financially supportive through that difficult time. Followed by asking what the fuck that has to do with sex.

Your husband presumably has hands. If he needs something with a different texture, there are plenty of products on the market for that.

Making sex into an obligation/chore/work is a great way to sap the fun out of it and fasttrack to a dead bedroom.

Sex isn’t something he’s entitled to at any frequency. Full stop. If it’s something you both want, and your exhaustion is the only barrier, it might be helpful to have a conversation about how to lower your workload so you have more energy. But any reason is a perfectly valid reason to say no. Of course, there’s the nuance of not holding sex over someone’s head, but it sounds like that’s not what’s happening here.

For context, I’m a man in my late 20s married to a therapist for survivors of domestic violence. My wife frequently gets home exhausted and worn down by the horrible stories she hears. Needless to say, our sex life is quite variable. So I figured out other ways to meet my needs (and I would suggest your husband is capable of the same kind of innovation).

Dude wants to talk about marital duties but you still have to have a job? Shouldn’t his “marital duty” be acting as a provider? If you’re going to follow outdated and sexist rules they go both ways.

That’s a dumb and bullshit excuse, if he’s horny and you don’t want to fuck then he should jerk off. Guilt tripping you into sex isn’t cool.