I think the idea of grace is - there are no good works good enough to warrant eternal salvation, right? No human person is really that good, and we live in a temporal world, our works are temporary. So only by grace can you get something so out of proportion to what you can do.
Like, you can’t do something here that really would earn you eternal damnation, even blowing up the earth isn’t as bad as sentencing someone to ETERNAL damnation. But still it is threatened for human level failings.
Yes, grace is to cover for natural human failings (Romans 3: 23-24). But we also need to do our part to show our faith (James 2:14-26). It is the faith that saves you, but it is works that keep that faith alive. Works alone (going through the motions) isn’t sufficient, nor is faith alone, though we are judged based on our faith and not our works, that much seems clear.
you can’t do something here that really would earn you eternal damnation
I don’t think that’s consistent with the majority of religious thought. For example, Judas Iscariot is commonly accepted as having been damned, so surely there is something you can do to earn eternal damnation, according to Protestantism. In fact, the rule here seems to be pretty simple, to earn damnation, you need to not accept Jesus as your savior, and it seems that, given 1 Peter 3:19-20, you have a chance at that after this life (i.e. if you would’ve accepted Jesus in life, you receive salvation even if you didn’t have the opportunity in life). You don’t get damnation for regular sin, only for that denial.
My personal belief here is a bit different than the protestant one. I don’t think the Bible really supports there being one heaven and one hell, but instead something like this:
damnation/hell - completely cut off from God because you never accepted him in the first place
spirit prison - some kind of holding place where you await judgement and are given a chance to accept Jesus if you didn’t have it in life
heaven - reward for your faith in life, and the reward likely includes some form of additional progression/learning (God is truth, so life with God means life w/ truth, i.e. learning)
The Bible isn’t clear on what the next life is actually like, but it does seem to imply there’s something comparable to this life after we die, provided we exercise faith in Jesus (else why would we need a resurrection?). I think the top priority for God is to ensure we’re comfortable in the next life, so putting someone who denied Jesus in his presence for eternity wouldn’t really fit, they’d instead feel more comfortable away from God’s presence, and the “suffering” is probably largely based on knowing what they could have had (i.e. guilt).
That’s my take reading between the lines. But the important part is generally agreeing that faith is the most import and works are merely there to reinforce that faith, and that we’ll be rewarded based on our faith, not our works.
I think the idea of grace is - there are no good works good enough to warrant eternal salvation, right? No human person is really that good, and we live in a temporal world, our works are temporary. So only by grace can you get something so out of proportion to what you can do.
Like, you can’t do something here that really would earn you eternal damnation, even blowing up the earth isn’t as bad as sentencing someone to ETERNAL damnation. But still it is threatened for human level failings.
Yes, grace is to cover for natural human failings (Romans 3: 23-24). But we also need to do our part to show our faith (James 2:14-26). It is the faith that saves you, but it is works that keep that faith alive. Works alone (going through the motions) isn’t sufficient, nor is faith alone, though we are judged based on our faith and not our works, that much seems clear.
I don’t think that’s consistent with the majority of religious thought. For example, Judas Iscariot is commonly accepted as having been damned, so surely there is something you can do to earn eternal damnation, according to Protestantism. In fact, the rule here seems to be pretty simple, to earn damnation, you need to not accept Jesus as your savior, and it seems that, given 1 Peter 3:19-20, you have a chance at that after this life (i.e. if you would’ve accepted Jesus in life, you receive salvation even if you didn’t have the opportunity in life). You don’t get damnation for regular sin, only for that denial.
My personal belief here is a bit different than the protestant one. I don’t think the Bible really supports there being one heaven and one hell, but instead something like this:
The Bible isn’t clear on what the next life is actually like, but it does seem to imply there’s something comparable to this life after we die, provided we exercise faith in Jesus (else why would we need a resurrection?). I think the top priority for God is to ensure we’re comfortable in the next life, so putting someone who denied Jesus in his presence for eternity wouldn’t really fit, they’d instead feel more comfortable away from God’s presence, and the “suffering” is probably largely based on knowing what they could have had (i.e. guilt).
That’s my take reading between the lines. But the important part is generally agreeing that faith is the most import and works are merely there to reinforce that faith, and that we’ll be rewarded based on our faith, not our works.