I hear all the time people saying that it is an attempt to eliminated physical money to track us down. I remember reading somewhere that one of the requisites was to work offline, also for what I see is that the only thing that this is threatening to replace are things like Bizum and small payments with credit and debit cards.
a proposed electronic version of the physical euro that has banks and right-leaning politicians fuming.
That should tell you enough about why we need it.
TL;DR the digital euro isn’t stored in a bank, but in a digital ledger, making it impossible for banks to use it as they wish for investments, mortgages or trading.
Never again do banks need to be saved by governments from their own bad and risky investment decisions because they are “too big to fail”.
From what I’ve read in other news, the digital euro wallet will have a hard limit on the amount you can store in it, something like 1000 euros for example. Also, it needs to be linked to a physical euro bank account. Those features combined prevent fraud and speculation. It’s mostly to be used as an online payment method to circumvent the Visa/Mastercard american payment duopoly.
I can confirm European banks are actively participating in the definition and implementation of the ‘digital euro’. So the ‘banks are fuming’ thing is bullshit.
Crypto-scam ‘companies’, on the other hand…
That doesn’t mean bank accounts disappear. Banks will still hold your digital euros for you and pay you interest so that they can invest your money and make more money.
Nothing changes.
Banks dont pay me interest any more, lol. I have to pay account fees. So that they might be so courteous as to take my money and enrich themselves with it
What?
Either you have a lot of capital so you actually do get some returns from the bank for parking it with them, or you are very fortunate.
My german, bog standard account with a 100€ overdraft limit pays me like, 2 cents a year for having my account there. While billing me 10€ or so per financial quarter for the account. Granted i’m poor, so they cant make that much money with my “capital”, but still.
That’s… crazy.
Here in the UK I get a 4.25% APR savings account. It’s completely free and I’ve already got about £20 in 2 months off just putting a little bit of money away each month. Up to £20k this is tax free as well, though I’m nowhere near that haha.
If you’re saving for a home you can also open a special savings account from which you can only withdraw for a downpayment on a first home where you get a 25% bonus on your deposits from the govt, up to £1k for £4k deposited per year, all that is of course also tax free. I got about £700 from £3k of deposits.
My day to day bank account and one I get paid into by work (also free ofc), I just empty right away and plug into savings so it sits there accumulating interests, then I live off a credit card for the rest of the month, which is interest free as long as you pay it off every month, and for every purchase over £50 you can split it across three months, without interest or fees too.
Real shocker to me Germany has it so expensive.
All depends on how its implemented tbh. If its not regulated correctly it’ll turn into what any digital currency is: a shitshow.
Im all for, if its done right.Granted, i have yet to look into the proposal so no idea what they have in mind! Its on my todo list!
Other than banks in Iceland, any other European banks were affected by the subprime crisis?
In Spain, almost all of the Cajas de Ahorros (it is not the same but to not go in details, imagine a some sort of credit union) went under due the financial crisis.
They were merged and transformed into a bank that then was rescued with lot of public money from taxpayers and it never repay to the society (either by returning the money or lowering fees and mortgage interest, in fact it almost erased people savings while the board of directors increased their bonuses.
Now the bank no longer exists, it was purchased by another bank, the one with most egregious fees in the country.
That tracks. Most European banks appear to be risk averse, unlike their American counterparts. I had assumed most of them either stayed away or lightly dealt with subprime bullshit.
All the major British banks were.
UBS and Credit Suisse in Switzerland both. UBS required a bail out at the time.
Portugal as well. Off the top of my head, BES, Banif and BPP were the most seriously affected, such that they no longer exist.
No. Those portuguese banks failed in different years because of internal corruption. It had nothing to do to the failed investment assets that caused the subprime crisis. The Icelandic banks failed because they invested heavily in toxic assets.
It is true that their failure was due to internal corruption and not the issues that led to the subprime crisis. I misunderstood the question and concede the point.
But the subprime crisis (or the financial landscape after it) did expose the frailties (and in those cases I mentioned, corruption) of the Portuguese banks and was a non-insignificant factor in their demise. But I suppose you can say the same for a lot of other banks in other countries.
Wow. I always thought European banks were more risk-averse than American ones.
But isn’t the bank lending out your money and charging interest… which they pay back (some) to you?
If that doesn’t happen and the digital euro just sits under your bed, then how do savings work vs inflation?
I don’t know if it’s different in Europe, but where I live bank savings account interest has been so low as to be a joke my entire adult life. If your goal is to have an investment or even just beat inflation, a bank account ain’t it.
It’s not high exactly but here in the UK you basically can’t beat compound interest in returns and predictability over time. The alternatives are investing in businesses of which none succeed or really grow and has a high barrier to entry or the gambling with 4x leverage CFDs which is closer to horse betting than any kind of investment strategy.
The digital euro doesn’t stop you from keeping doing it. It only replaces cash. Instead of withdrawing cash from the ATM to keep it in your wallet, you withdraw digital cash and keep it in your phone.
True, but that would be a phone app which has to come from an official (US) app store on a phone that is using offical (US) firmware…
I’m all for having a financial system that we can use 100% disconnected from the US, but it’s the details that makes this hard, not the initial concept of e-Money.
But, back to the original point, I don’t know how interest would work on money in an eWallet. I’d want to keep all my funds earning for me, which means loaning to others and then getting something back… so I don’t want those transactions sitting in a 0% “safe” place… I’m either saving or spending.
So, if we can just have a EU version of Visa / Mastercard as step 1 that would be best. I think that’s just arriving…
So the right is against it: good
The banks are against it: probably still good
It might stifle innovation: okay… where has that been up until now?
The ECB has already made concessions to appease banks, the digital euro will have a 0% intrest rate for example so banks should still be more appealing to store money in… Not that i’ve seen an intrest rate at a bank above 2% since 2008, but hey… Room to innovate…
Germany doesnt like the idea of potential snooping… So i guess they trust big american corporations more than an institution they have an actual say over?
I dont see a real downside to trying it, other than upseting american companies and special interest groups, and i’d much prefer this to some crypto bullshit
Why not simply mandate all banks to support immediate payments? And to support webhooks for all payments? That would make it extremely easy to not rely on Visa/MasterCard.
Instant payments have already been mandated through SEPA. It will come into force quite soon.
Even for non-Eurozone countries?
Just SEPA afaik. But that makes sense for Brussels to dictate, the rest of the world is a little beyond their jurisdiction.
Well, Eurozone != EU. And if I’m not mistaken, it either was or will be mandatory for Eurozone, but not the whole EU. Though I might be mistaken.
The only reason why eurozone and EU are not the same (bar the countries with exceptions) is that multiple countries still fail to adhere to the criteria needed to join the euro - and some, like Poland, fail on purpose.
I do know that, I live in country which fails on purpose. Not sure why the lecture?
Nothing against you personally. It is just a bit annoying when people from EU countries who refuse to join the Euro then complain about their currencies/financial market getting treated differently than the Euro zone.
How can you pay using webhooks?
Step 1. You pay using an immediate bank transfer
Step 2. Bank sends a webhook to the merchant letting him know in real time the money were received
Step 3. There’s no step 3, you paid, merchant has got the money immediately and knows about it and you avoided using foreign card companies.
Don’t bank transfers have problems with buyer protection?Do suppose crypto does, actually…
Will there be a fixed supply or will the ECB be able to creat more like with fiat and devalue everyone’s money?
What are “Politco.eu” political and billionaire ties? Just out of curiosity.
Politico was bought bei conservative German publisher Axel Springer SE some years ago. Their tabloid Bild is populist to right-wing. They have ties to German car manufacturers and other uber rich. CEO Döpfner is for example friends with Peter Thiel afaik.
Okay, so politico then can be discarded as reliable. I mean, it’s soort of independent ish still, but I don’t trust it to be that forever.
Going to stick with the Jacobin and Freedom (the British journal).
Euobserver and Euractiv are the leading media for EU developments and news, especially scoops from Brussels
Not sure what’s wrong, since I seem to be unable to edit the comment, so here’s an addition.
The main sources of revenue are advertising, event sponsorship and paid subscriptions with nearly half coming from the subscription business.[10]
from Wikipedia
‘event sponsorship’ is where you probably want to dig into to see where the money is being funneled
Does it mean that half of Brussels is either in a bank’s pocket or believes in some conspiracy theory lingering over any technology more evolved than a FM/AM radio?
Well, they kinda did. They always do. Otherwise they’re not really a bank are they? That’s fine of course though as long as they’re taking money to fulfill their job as a bank, not as a bailout because they failed to do so yet remain privatized for some reason (we all know why).
I know, i was just making a humourous addition to the whole “digital euro will steal your money” conspiracy theory :D
Heh I get it now!
Ah yes, the reduction to luddism. Advanced tech can be implemented in an user-respecting way or make a great tool for totalitarian governments to come. With this and Chat Control, the EU went on a very worrying course of total invigilation.
Does it make me afraid of this new technology? Sure. Do I keep paying with cash because I like coins clinking in my pocket? No, I hate carrying coins but the alternative of giving the oppressor information about my every step is so much worse.
Probably a combination of older people, bankers (all of the big banks are headquartered in Brussels and payment processors like Bancontact, also Euroclear (people also forget about silent CSDs holding enormous power) which all together have a ridiculous amount of employees in Brussels as well as a separatist movement in Flanders that is like brexit but with even more racism and strawmen.
Then there is also the fact that here in Belgium, there is still quite a cash culture in some places. International payment processors have huge fees, so a lot of places only take Bancontact or cash still, which isn’t a bad thing since most payment processors exist to transfer wealth from the working class to the owning class doing as little as possible to meet that goal with ridiculous fees.
there is still quite a cash culture in some places
The Digital Euro will be like gay marriages: if you don’t like it, just don’t have one 😉
The opposition, as you said, comes essentially from lobbies.
Will it still be relevant once Wero has spread throughout the continent?
Is Wero a private corporation? If yes, it can be bought by bigger corporations (such as ones from the US or China).
I see. Looks like a precursor to digital euro.
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If this is correct, and I am not expert or well enough informed, then I’m all for it and will move over ASAP when available. Like many, I will rely upon trusted and unbiased sources for guidance.
