Some indigenous cultures never invented writing and are hunter gathers. They don’t have time to engage in any sort of philosophy. There’s no basis for them to even describe these ideas.
It’s not better. It’s not different. It’s underdeveloped.
Frankly if argue that grouping all the different varied cultures under the simple term “western culture” is equally reductive and unproductive. There is no single “Western Culture” just as there’s no single “indigenous culture”
Europe’s culture has developed from Christian Roman culture after the Roman Empire conquered most of the continent. The indiginous cultures and religions of mainland Europe were destroyed by the Romans and the Roman-influenced kingdoms springing up after Romes demise.
The culture resulting from that was exported to Britain with the Norman conquest, and that new British culture was exported to the US and other “Western” nations through colonialism.
The indiginous “western” culture doesn’t exist anymore.
The indiginous cultures and religions of mainland Europe were destroyed by the Romans and the Roman-influenced kingdoms springing up after Romes demise.
Okay, by that reasoning then the indigenous cultures of Australia, the Americas, the Caribbean, Pacific islands, etc were destroyed by European empires/colonization and thus also don’t exist anymore.
You give the Romans way too much credit. They didn’t even manage to export their style of music and had their tradition supplanted by the rest of Europe: Previously they were part of the Mediterranean tradition (which nowadays people recognise as oriental, definitely a misnomer), have a listen. Nowadays they have just as much as an allergy to flourishes as much of the rest of the continent (modulo Greece but also Spain, also at least parts of the Balkan)
“Western culture” isn’t even universal in Europe. Sami and several peoples around Russia are quite distinct from anything rooted in the Roman empire. Many of them don’t subscribe to any of the Abrahamic faiths, while others only converted to Christianity in the last few hundred years.
Is it underdeveloped though? They’re certainly not the ones driving us toward the 6th mass extinction and potentially an uninhabitable earth (for humans)
Thinking about the language needed to express philosophical ideas and how language can impact your ability to form complex arguments is probably not the best use of my time. It’s pretty interesting though and I enjoy it so it’s not exactly a waste.
Thanks! Yeah I see a lot of people acting like impoverished tribal cultures are as cultured and complex as ancient and beautiful cultures like the middle east, Persia, China, Greece, etc. It’s simply not true.
Their validity, or even their level of quality as a culture, is not necessarily measured by their ability to invent writing. We are not automatically better than them just because of that, and we certainly don’t have the right to pass them off as savages.
They don’t have time to engage in any sort of philosophy.
They did. Columbus made contact with a very sophisticated culture that was soon wiped out by disease, and effectively entered a dark age from which it never recovered.
We normally divide human philosophy into Western and Eastern types. There’s some evidence that on the American continents, there was a third independently developed branch of philosophy. It was all but lost, with only oral retellings remaining.
Read up on Boasian anthropology and it states that no cultures are inherently better or worse than another. How is the culture of Christian Europeans killing and enslaving hunter gatherers, who haven’t made written records, better? Many oral records also turned out to be just as accurate, provided they have been corroborated by scientific evidence. Many tribes have knowledge and wisdom unknown or unthought of by arrogant civilised and pampered individuals. An American Christian missionary was de-converted when a Praha tribe member from Brazil asked him if he had seen Jesus. When he replied “no”, the tribe member quipped why would he believe Jesus is god if the missionary had not even seen him? The tribe’s philosophy live in the moment, unlike the Western society always thinking of the future and past, striving for status symbol and material wealth. The Praha tribe may not have running water or huge houses, but they live their life carefree.
You think playing Civilizations game with its oversimplified digirtal cartoon tech tree makes you an expert on anthropology to judge others. No, it just makes you a donkey’s cunt for doing so.
The Western capitalist and individualistic value of material consumption is totally not destroying the collective humanity by the result of environmental destruction in pursuit of profit. A totally superior culture indeed. Amirite?
Yea fr, the only species that can even entertain the idea of “just being” are humans, it’s not part of the natural world whatsoever, it also comes at the expense of other humans who are actually supporting the society.
I am quite confused on the people here on lemmy. On the one hand, the consensus is ‘capitalism bad’ (presumably because people work themselves to death with little to show for it). On the other hand, this post seems to be somewhat populated by people that are against the whole idea of ‘just being’ vs ‘doing’. So, what would one conclude from this?
I hate capitalism but I do feel like people get carried away blaming everything bad on capitalism, slavery and authoritarianism were present in pretty much all the cultures around before capitalism even existed and the indigenous cultures of pretty much everywhere had class and caste systems often based on religious power which itself was based on violence.
It’s so reductive to say ‘oh these people weren’t building factories so their lives were just sitting around in the sun doing whatever makes them happy’ but life in a tribe was every bit as rich and complex as modern life - generally without the luxury of being able to choose your life path, certainly for women and minorities.
Some indigenous cultures never invented writing and are hunter gathers. They don’t have time to engage in any sort of philosophy. There’s no basis for them to even describe these ideas.
It’s not better. It’s not different. It’s underdeveloped.
I think it’s weird how we use terms like indigenous culture. Western culture is indigenous to the west.
It’s weird how the whole noble savage myth just keeps on trucking
Frankly if argue that grouping all the different varied cultures under the simple term “western culture” is equally reductive and unproductive. There is no single “Western Culture” just as there’s no single “indigenous culture”
And that is fair and correct.
White savior complex is alive and well
So I guess the white savior can stop saving, the noble savage can stop being noble and we can all chill, just like the meme suggests.
Europe’s culture has developed from Christian Roman culture after the Roman Empire conquered most of the continent. The indiginous cultures and religions of mainland Europe were destroyed by the Romans and the Roman-influenced kingdoms springing up after Romes demise.
The culture resulting from that was exported to Britain with the Norman conquest, and that new British culture was exported to the US and other “Western” nations through colonialism.
The indiginous “western” culture doesn’t exist anymore.
Huh guess my culture doesn’t exist I’ll be sure to tell everyone on the reservation.
Don’t spread bad history. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Okay, by that reasoning then the indigenous cultures of Australia, the Americas, the Caribbean, Pacific islands, etc were destroyed by European empires/colonization and thus also don’t exist anymore.
You give the Romans way too much credit. They didn’t even manage to export their style of music and had their tradition supplanted by the rest of Europe: Previously they were part of the Mediterranean tradition (which nowadays people recognise as oriental, definitely a misnomer), have a listen. Nowadays they have just as much as an allergy to flourishes as much of the rest of the continent (modulo Greece but also Spain, also at least parts of the Balkan)
…and this is just to serve as an example.
“Western culture” isn’t even universal in Europe. Sami and several peoples around Russia are quite distinct from anything rooted in the Roman empire. Many of them don’t subscribe to any of the Abrahamic faiths, while others only converted to Christianity in the last few hundred years.
That’s a group I don’t know much about. I only heard about them more recently.
That’s definitely one of the opinions of all time.
Is it underdeveloped though? They’re certainly not the ones driving us toward the 6th mass extinction and potentially an uninhabitable earth (for humans)
Yes it’s undeveloped
That’s not what you said, you said underdeveloped, two very different things.
Okay sorry I think it’s underdeveloped and undeveloped. Primitive, lesser, inferior, etc.
Ah okay, so you’re bigoted, at least you admit it.
Yes, I admit it. I’m not going to play intellectually dishonest games with you or pretend I’m something I’m not.
That’s good because I think you’re a shitty excuse for a human being.
We are all flawed. Humans are inherently flawed creatures. I’m sorry you feel like this is a personal attack on you.
Imagine behaving like this with the one life you have
Thinking about the language needed to express philosophical ideas and how language can impact your ability to form complex arguments is probably not the best use of my time. It’s pretty interesting though and I enjoy it so it’s not exactly a waste.
I bet you’re an authority on things that are underdeveloped…
I like little boobs
Thanks! Yeah I see a lot of people acting like impoverished tribal cultures are as cultured and complex as ancient and beautiful cultures like the middle east, Persia, China, Greece, etc. It’s simply not true.
wooooosh
Their validity, or even their level of quality as a culture, is not necessarily measured by their ability to invent writing. We are not automatically better than them just because of that, and we certainly don’t have the right to pass them off as savages.
They did. Columbus made contact with a very sophisticated culture that was soon wiped out by disease, and effectively entered a dark age from which it never recovered.
We normally divide human philosophy into Western and Eastern types. There’s some evidence that on the American continents, there was a third independently developed branch of philosophy. It was all but lost, with only oral retellings remaining.
Wow, least racist comment I have seen. Bravo.
Read up on Boasian anthropology and it states that no cultures are inherently better or worse than another. How is the culture of Christian Europeans killing and enslaving hunter gatherers, who haven’t made written records, better? Many oral records also turned out to be just as accurate, provided they have been corroborated by scientific evidence. Many tribes have knowledge and wisdom unknown or unthought of by arrogant civilised and pampered individuals. An American Christian missionary was de-converted when a Praha tribe member from Brazil asked him if he had seen Jesus. When he replied “no”, the tribe member quipped why would he believe Jesus is god if the missionary had not even seen him? The tribe’s philosophy live in the moment, unlike the Western society always thinking of the future and past, striving for status symbol and material wealth. The Praha tribe may not have running water or huge houses, but they live their life carefree.
You think playing Civilizations game with its oversimplified digirtal cartoon tech tree makes you an expert on anthropology to judge others. No, it just makes you a donkey’s cunt for doing so.
Ok, I disagree. Thanks Franz Boas.
The Western capitalist and individualistic value of material consumption is totally not destroying the collective humanity by the result of environmental destruction in pursuit of profit. A totally superior culture indeed. Amirite?
deleted by creator
Spoken like a true colonist.
Yea fr, the only species that can even entertain the idea of “just being” are humans, it’s not part of the natural world whatsoever, it also comes at the expense of other humans who are actually supporting the society.
What…
I am quite confused on the people here on lemmy. On the one hand, the consensus is ‘capitalism bad’ (presumably because people work themselves to death with little to show for it). On the other hand, this post seems to be somewhat populated by people that are against the whole idea of ‘just being’ vs ‘doing’. So, what would one conclude from this?
I hate capitalism but I do feel like people get carried away blaming everything bad on capitalism, slavery and authoritarianism were present in pretty much all the cultures around before capitalism even existed and the indigenous cultures of pretty much everywhere had class and caste systems often based on religious power which itself was based on violence.
It’s so reductive to say ‘oh these people weren’t building factories so their lives were just sitting around in the sun doing whatever makes them happy’ but life in a tribe was every bit as rich and complex as modern life - generally without the luxury of being able to choose your life path, certainly for women and minorities.
Capitalism and the influence it has over people creates some fucking morons?
A fine assessment, good chap.