I’m not very informed on modern China and there’s a ton of sources accusing China of killing and even harvesting organs from Uyghurs and Falun Gong believers.

Is there any truth to those claims or is it all pigpoop ?

  • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Another whole angle of this I was thinking about the other day - you actually CANNOT just genocide a group of people without them responding in some way. People can tell when the atmosphere of the state they’re living in is turning towards genocide against them (and a culture preparing for a genocide to the point of ordinary citizens accepting it generates a HUGE amount of propaganda, which there is obviously no evidence of in China). Before WW2 there were millions of Jewish refugees, and during it there were Jewish militias and partizans fighting back. Colonized countries rose up again and again to throw out the colonists who were exploiting and killing them. And now Israel is showing exactly what happens in the modern day if you try to annihilate an entire population: absolutely intractable guerilla warfare. Israel would love to just send in the army and gun down all 2 million people in Gaza, but they CAN’T because their army would be torn to shreds.

    So to suggest the people of Xinjiang - which shares hundreds of miles of desert-mountain borders with Afghanistan and Pakistan - would just meekly accept a million people (literally 1/20th of the population!) disappearing without fighting back using the enormous amount of weaponry and guerilla warfare expertise within a trivial distance of them, or even just trying to escape with their lives, is outright infantilizing. WW2 shows they would fight back, the history of decolonial movements shows they would fight back, Gaza shows they would fight back, and the total lack of such a violent conflict in Xinjiang shows that whatever is happening there is not a genocide.

  • Rod_Blagojevic [none/use name]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    You can dig into the details, but you don’t need to. The holocaust has tons of physical evidence. It takes a lot of stuff to commit a genocide. For this genocide there isn’t even a photo. Also, the politician most invested in the genocide accusations was Joe Biden. His only response was to cancel a diplomatic delegation going to the olympics in China. The delegation wasn’t even real. These aren’t the actions of someone who actually thought there was a genocide happening.

  • volcel_olive_oil [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    (not a historian)

    in pretty much every case, sources for the “uyghur genocide” trace back to zenz Adrian Zenz, a guy who can’t read chinese who deliberately makes shit up to support his “holy crusade against china”

    the thing that actually happened is that China had to fight CIA-funded terrorism in Xinjiang; they did so with prison sentences and re-education instead of ultraviolence - it worked, so they stopped doing it (much to the dismay of china watchers)

    Falun Gong is banned because they are a death cult

  • SocialistWombat [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    1 year ago

    Falun Gong is the Chinese equivalent of Scientology. Shen Yun, the dance show, and the Epoch Times are both arms of the church.

    It’s absolutely in their interests to make up anything smearing a government that doesn’t tolerate their shit.

      • allnaturalanthrax [none/use name]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        If you were to list the top ten cults in the United States by harm done, Scientology wouldn’t make the top ten. It would mostly be Protestant churches who will do another Waco if forced which honestly isn’t something anyone should want.

        Scientology is bad, but they have one thing going for it that most cults don’t. Sexual abuse is not common, like obviously it happens but probably to a lesser extent than the Church. Scientology is much more focused on exploiting the labor of its practitioners and covering up the occasional death caused by lack of medical care than getting horny. Like legitimately the reason why Scientology still exists is that it is not a sex cult.

  • Huldra [they/them, it/its]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    1 year ago

    Pretty much, the organ harvesting claim in particular originally was based in the falun gong belief that(Disclaimer: This is not a bit) their spiritual practices literally made their internal organs superior in quality and impervious to disease or physical ailments(This leads into their belief that modern medicine is unnecessary and a satanic communist tool) and therefore the Communist Party harvests those organs to make their party elite live longer.

    This was later transplanted basically wholesale into the idea of “halal organs”, the claim that there are muslim elites who refuse to receive organs from anyone who has not adhered to halal requirements in their lifestyle, and therefore the Communist Party are systematically harvesting organs from the Uighur muslim population to sell on the black market, presumably to the muslim nations that stand with China.

    There has as far as I have read never been any evidence to support either claim that isnt either a claim of personal experience or a “whistleblower” statement that also is exclusively a personal claim of experience, unless China also is running a whole black market supply system of immunosuppressants and other post-transplant support medical care, you would see very obvious signs such as consumption of those medical supplies being obviously higher than recorded transplants.

    The only signs like that that has been pointed to is that China has a notably short waiting list for organ transplants from what I have heard, but thats basically where the supporting evidence begins and ends, no further investigation has borne fruit.

      • RenownedBalloonThief@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        “Atheism and evolution are deadly ideas. Modern trends destroy what makes us human.” - quote from a Shen Yun performance. I’m half tempted to go to one just to snap a pic of the giant Karl Marx head tsunami wave.

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        specifically they believe that communism is a satanic plot by ghosts

        When you don’t understand what a metaphor is and you read “a specter is haunting Europe”.

      • echognomics [he/him]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Wait that makes communism sound cool and metal as fuck.

        Part of me kinda wish we lived in the fantasy world these people say they believe in, where instead of reading theory and attending party meetings, communists are actually mighty wizard-shamans who gain esoteric mystical powers through constantly doing gay orgiastic rituals, and then use it to summon spirits of the ancestral dead in order to perform crazy magical feats like making entire nation-spanning train networks appear out of mid-air or transmuting arid deserts into dense forests.