For anyone wondering, this is an actual photo of Israeli soldiers posing with a Palestinian female prisoner.
For context, here is a link to a France 24 news article from 2010 that references this same photo
I was hoping they’d mention in the article but they didn’t, what the hell is that orange propane tank looking thing with wires sticking out of the top right in front of her?
I’m Iranian, I know those. Many years ago, before gas lines were widespread we bought gas for cooking and heating in those kinds of canisters. You can still find them in use in many places, especially if used with a cooking valve top it is a great portable cooking station for vacations
https://demotywatory.pl/uploads/201802/1517690074_tj5ypg_fb_plus.jpg
This is the biggest copy of this image I could find online, I’m familiar with similar camping stoves, and the bit coming out of the top doesn’t look like the attachment for cooking. Possibly for refilling? What an odd thing to pose with though, they look like that meme of US cops standing around that table with a bowl, like 3.5g of weed, and like $24.
We used to hook something like this to those, back in the old days
There are also these, which hook directly intp the canister valve:
There are also other utilities for these, like heating and even gas powered lamps! Very useful for camping, even tho they’re pretty heavy
This is widespread culture in the IDF.
Container color is typically decided by the manufacturer, but in this case, it is probably medical and is most likely oxygen. Or it’s none of those and it’s just a regular propane tank and they thought it would be cool or something.
Googling “orange compressed gas cylinder” gave me results for both oxygen cylinders and propane canisters, so in this case probably propane. The implication is probably meant to be that it’s a bomb, but it’s hard to tell anything conclusively from this photo. The extra bits on top could just be an apparatus for refilling smaller containers, like for camp stoves or something.
Oh like they “caught them with a bomb” or something? That makes sense.
Sprinkle a little
crackhastily manufactured fake ‘IED’ on them and call it a day.Seems about as plausible as the FSB planting and showcasing the Sims 3 in a staged Ukrainian ‘bust’ rather than SIMs x3.
Interesting, it doesn’t look like any o2 tanks I’m familiar with nor does it appear to have any masks or anything that would indicate to me it is for medical use. Whatever it is it looks really out of place, is this in a medical facility? It almost looks like a school or something.
Canisters vary by country, use and manufacturer. And it could be a school indeed. But, medical supplies would realistically be around military and hostages. I’m just guessing at this point, it’s a strange item to see on the floor in front of a hostage. 🤷♂️
Let’s say it is an IED
Does that now make the photo acceptable?
If the woman is a terrorist then yes, by quite a huge lot. They’d be smarter not to act like frat boys in this situation perhaps, but young people are often idiots. Especially when in high pressure situations like a war.
If captured terrorist = PoW then it can be argued that this photo is against the Geneva convention
"prisoners or war must be treated with dignity, and not exposed to public curiosity – like circulating images on social media”.
I don’t claim to be anything close to an expert in international law, but I think there’s some controversy around the question of whether captured Hamas soldiers are prisoners of war.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu constantly refers to the “the war”. Therefore Hamas soldiers are PoWs. He can’t have it both ways.
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If the child* you mean.
The goddamn fucking CHILD.
Good old France 24. Protecting the soldiers right to privacy while representing their government.
Bro got banned for this classic ledddit
Oof, the confrontation of cognitive dissonance was a little too strong, I guess.
To be fair, they did make a post with an intentionally incorrect title
Don’t even know why that should be relevant, the sub is MadeMeCry and it’s just as sad either way.
The actual rules say “titles should be descriptive” and, well, this one certainly does describe something.
I don’t think “ham thoroughly soaked in rum being eaten by a fat drunk man, and a short, bald drunk man” is appropriate either, despite also being similarly descriptive.
Rumham!!
It should’ve been you!!!
No need to be fair. Mods choose which rules they enforce based on perceived harm. They’re not robots.
from the sub or from Reddit as a whole?
Whole leddit
wow seriously ? epic leddit moment
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i swear I cannot comprehend how dense those guys are for thinking that taking a frail girl captive is something to be proud of
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I doubted it because of the poster in the back being in Hebrew rather than cyrillic.
It could be a Full Metal Jacket female sniper -kind of situation. Being physically frail-looking doesn’t mean much these days when it comes to causing harm.
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This is backwards. The vast majority of people, certainly here on the internet, support the Palestinians. Especially young people, even when you are looking outside of the internet.
Meanwhile, almost everybody seems to have forgotten about the plight of the Ukrainians.
Bitch I’m just tired. What the fuck am I supposed to do?
Generally speaking, be upset when super shitty things happen to people regardless of nationality.
I’m running out of upset. I’m just kind of getting numb to it all. I hate it.
I’ve been upset since the moment I saw the people in Yemen starve. They’re not in a good position but I can’t do shit so worrying about it only hurts me.
Worrying isn’t about hurting other people. It’s about being emotionally invested in the world around you, a process that requires negative emotions.
What does that accomplish?
It doesn’t have to accomplish anything. Emotions don’t have to be productive to be justified. They’re a part of life and a part of being human, and you’d do well to accept that.
It does have to accomplish something otherwise I’m worrying for no reason which is self-harm at that point.
no, you are supposed to see the bad guys as lower than animals, the reason i don’t shed as many tears for the Russians is that those on the front have a chance to flee and surrender, and many people do take it
Or, we could just not see any person as lower than animals, and it’ll lead to way less bloodshed than anyone having to flee and surrender would.
surrendering literally leads to less bloodshed, but many Russian soldiers are of the opinion that Russia uber alles
The people who claim Lemmy users aren’t assholes like Reddit users are the ones downvoting this comment.
Eta. When I made this comment the one above was at -5 and that’s confusing to me.
Be upset. Always. It’s what good people do!Never allow yourself to be happy because you have peace, for there are others who have no such opportunity for peace. People are always suffering, so why choose to be a discompassionate monster by just being okay with what is going on in your own life, when you could scroll past images of other people’s misery and do the virtuous thing of getting upset.
Yeah, let’s strawman everyone who expects emotional investment from you instead, because the only thing that matters in this world is you and your feelings, and fuck everyone else’s.
I’m not sure if you’re right: https://www.reuters.com/world/us-public-support-israel-drops-majority-backs-ceasefire-reutersipsos-2023-11-15/ – and that’s almost 2 months old, support for Israel has probably not gone up.
Ukraine is getting way too little support though from everyone, that’s true. I think what they need is weapons and additional financial pressure against Russia, not like angry retweets and memes. Those are pretty much the modern equivalent of thoughts and prayers.
True. I think that sending your representative(s) a letter/email about an issue can increase pressure or at leat awareness of it. Much more than social media posts at least. What do you think? 🤔
I do that sometimes and don’t know if it’s for nothing. Might depend on the country?
I don’t think support of the Palestinians was that clear even a few weeks ago. At least in relation to current events. Opinions were in a lot of flux
Eh not sure about that
I think they’re talking about the tankies, who love Russia and think Ukraine had it coming.
Those can’t be recent posts on Reddit. Reddit got rid of its award system recently. Not that I don’t believe these things happen, I do.
This is why the “4 days ago” type of timestamp is garbage.
2010
2010 is the age of the photo, the post was between the start of the invasion of Ukraine and the removal of awards.
Remember the US government and congress are okay with this organization and send them billions of dollars every year.
Correction, Biden dont even have to ask congress to sell Israel „emergency” aid.
What do you expect when your army is a bunch of 18 year olds doing national service. Ridiculous really. Also how did Hans get into the IDF, amazing.
Isn’t that most armies?
Grew up in a city in the US with a massive military presence, like a giant frat party constantly going off.
18-year-olds yeah, national service no
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It was just the full quote
What do you expect when your army is a bunch of 18 year olds doing national service.
National service=mandatory draft
As for most, I wouldn’t think so, and definitely not most of the good (as in competent) militaries.
This image is like 20 years old
You mean this didn’t start on October 7?
Yes, gaza has been terrorist attacking israel for about 70+ years now
Anything else been going on in Palestine during that time…?
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Guys, imagine being THIS out to lunch.
I try, but it’s beyond the realm of reason.
Yes, gaza has been defending itself against israel for about 70+ years now
FTFY.
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the Nazis in WW1
I think we can stop reading there, if that’s the extend of your historic literacy (the rest is not much better)
The Ottomans sided with the Nazis in WWI.
You are a liar. The Nazi Party wasn’t even in power during WW1.
The Nazi Party,[b] officially the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei[c] or NSDAP), was a far-right[10][11][12] political party in Germany active between 1920 and 1945 Source
World War I or the First World War[j] (28 July 1914 – 11 November 1918) Source
11 November 1918 < 1920
It would have been a lie even if he meant WWII, because the Ottoman Empire was ended by then with the sultanate gone (year 1922 to be precise).
World War II or the Second World War[b] was a global conflict that lasted from 1939 to 1945. Source
Defeated in World War I, the Ottoman Empire signed the Armistice of Mudros on 30 October 1918. Istanbul was occupied by combined British, French, Italian, and Greek forces. In May 1919, Greece also took control of the area around Smyrna (now İzmir).
The partition of the Ottoman Empire was finalized under the terms of the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres. Source
Never. Trust. A. Zionist.
I think what they meant was german nationalists not actually the nazi party. Its like how people call american nationalists nazis even though they arent the same.
Ottomans were on an allience with Germany in ww1 and collectively were on board with the nazi uprising for ww2.
No, the Ottoman Empire was not supporting Nazis, and your far fetched attempt at making that claim is outrageous. During the reign of Hitler, Turkey was under secular anti-Islam (very much not Ottoman) rule. Quit your bullshit. In fact, arguably, the Ottoman Empire has historically provided a safe haven for the jews during their persecution.
The experience of Jews in the Ottoman Empire is particularly significant because the region “provided a principal place of refuge for Jews driven out of Western Europe by massacres and persecution.” Source
The establishment of Israel with the help of the Brits is the repayment for that.
Watch Israeli documentary Tantura.
D I and a P
People would support the girl regardless. What circumstances could possibly justify that?
🤔 Maybe if she was, in fact, a 35 year old serial rapist disguising herself as a teenager, and those men were the fathers of her victims. But that’s a pretty damn far stretch.
Quite frankly, the dishonest bait and switch makes me less sympathetic to his cause, for a just cause doesn’t require lies to bolster it up.
You’d be surprised at how far people go to justify this stuff. Like when idf soldiers shoot children in the west bank, people justify it by blaming the kids for throwing rocks. Racism is a huge part of this.
They should just be honest and say that genocide is in their best interests as a society if that’s what they truly believe. Which in and of itself is horrible but at least would be honest.
I think those soldiers are just rapists exploiting the war to rape without consequence and they’d do it regardless of what side they’re fighting on. There are paid mercenaries that do that, you know.
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This photo is from 2010.
I don’t get the switch. Either way it doesn’t seem right?
Yeah it takes some real manhood and bravery to hold a blindfolded teen girl as a captive. Way to go, scumbags. Just more proof that all human beings are intrinsically evil and small minded.
That’s quite the extrapolation!
But it’s true, I only need a photo such as that one to demonstrate that humans are essentially evil and terrible. All the evidence I need to prove it is right there.
By the same logic, if I were to show you a photo of a child kissing a puppy, you’d be able to “demonstrate” that all humans are children and essentially loving and caring creatures? That logic is not logic-ing, friend
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, so I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. But if not, that is almost a textbook example of spurious reasoning, and I’d ask you to really consider your logical process.
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Just more proof that all human beings are intrinsically evil and small minded.
Hey hey hey, wtf did I do to get lumped in with these assholes?? I just chill at home with my dog, my cat, and my Steam Deck!
I meant to say all human beings are evil except vegantomato and sigmaklimgrindset who is at home chilling his dog, cat, and his steam deck. I’m not sure what a steam deck is, it sounds nice and warm though. And anyone who has a cat is number one in my book.
Just more proof that all human beings are intrinsically evil and small minded.
Don’t lump me in with these criminals.
My bad, I meant to say that all human beings except vegantomato are evil and small minded. And no one has a nice and tomatoey of a texture either.
Not intrinsically evil, it’s just the Milgrams experiment with a sprinkling of religious brainwashing and thrown through a cultural hate machine.
Still not a excuse. Israel is exterminating the residents of Gaza because they want the land. They are leveling every structure so they can move in with the pretense of reconstruction.
I know, it’s utterly disgusting what Israel is doing. I wasn’t on any particular side until Israel launched its genocidal blood bath, now I hate almost all Jews universally and I doubt that will ever get better. The more Israel wages war, the more I am on the side of everyone else BUT them.
I’d argue a majority of Jewish people do not condone what Israel is doing.
I understand that totally but this does show that Jews can be as bloodthirsty as the worst of the world’s murderers.
Only prejudiced people (including racists) would think an entire group of people defined by etnicity, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation or similar are all good or all bad.
(Notice how the racists claim “Palestinians are violent” and use Hamas’ actions as “proof”, as if all Palestinians were the same)
All large groups of people have the full range from good people to bad people in them.
Splitting people in groups on anything but their action and then making general claims about the behaviour of their members is always prejudiced, even when the claims are positive.
What really makes the Evil as in here is not the etnicity of the oppressors, it’s the power structures that allow and even incentivises those with a capability for the evil amongst them to transform it into action with no reprecursions.
Members of the Jewish Religion include the whole range from great people to total assholes, but the State of Israel enables, condones and even incentivises the worst to act in their evil ways so long asnit’s directed against a different etnic group.
Now now, none of this would be the case if not for imaginary sky friends making everyone FUCKING RETARDED.
You’re the only one still believing that
That religion makes you stupid? No that’s true and it’s why both groups don’t just fuck off somewhere else.
Maybe the Palestinians lived there before.
Jews don’t accept Zionists as Jews. If anything the Zionists are people who don’t follow their religion.
Hmm, imaginary sky friends? Like the flying spaghetti monster, I suppose you’re going to tell me IT’S ALL IMAGINARY! :/
I think there’s a higher probability that Russian soldiers would rape a female prisoner than there is for IDF soldiers to rape a prisoner. So that factors into people’s feeling on this little “switcharoo” exercise.
It’s not actually hypocrisy to have awareness of a military’s track record in regards to sexually assaulting their prisoners.
There’s also a significantly higher probability that Hamas would rape a female prisoner than basically anyone in the world.
But I suppose people who look the other way when their allies call for genocide, look the other way when they intentionally murder over a thousand people, they’re probably also going to look the other way about them raping their prisoners too. I guess that’s consistent and therefore not “hypocritical.”
Can I see the equation you’re using to calculate these probabilities?
I’m afraid you would have to look up his ass, where those probabilities were pulled from.
If you’re pretending to be ignorant of the rapes committed by the Russian military and the rapes committed by Hamas, then you’re just someone that’s only here to push narratives to support some fascist cause.
You’re the one here pushing the fascist israeli cause.
Nah fam, Israel is a democracy. Meanwhile, there hasn’t been an election in Gaza since Hamas took power.
You see fascists often make efforts to de-legitimize democracies. Accuse the other side of that which you’re guilty, right?
How many thousands
civiliansoops, pardon, “terrorists” did IDF kill until now exactly? Not a single person in their right mind would complain if IDF targeted only terrorists. But at a certain point, when civilian casualties from the retaliation far outweigh the casualties from the initial attack we need to ask ourselves “What is even the point of this?”When the French Resistance attacked the Nazis during the occuption of France, the Nazis would at times go to a village and kill 10 random people for every German that had been killed.
Israel has already passed the 20-to-1 ratio and counting. In fact the 10-to-1 ratio is just of the killed Palestinian children to killed Israelis. The previous bunch of Nazis didn’t children in those they murdered as reprisal.
Well the terrorists don’t wear uniforms, do they?
Which means that A) we can’t know how many of the casualties are terrorists and B) the difficulty in identifying who’s a terrorist and who’s a civilian leads to greater civilian casualties.
If the Hamas terrorists all wore uniforms (and maybe put civilians in their underground bunkers instead of their “brave” leaders) there would be far fewer civilian casualties. Did you ever consider the possibility that Hamas actually wants there to be more Palestinian civilian casualties because it makes people like you hate Israel?
In most countries the military prioritizes protecting their civilian population. Do you really think Hamas is prioritizing protecting the civilian population of Gaza? If the government of a country doesn’t prioritize protecting it’s civilian population (and may actually want there to be civilian casualties since it helps their cause) shouldn’t you expect there to be more civilian causalities than seen in other conflicts?
How do you react when you see people cosplaying as actual genocidal terrorists at “Free Palestine” protests? Do you ever stop and think “are we the baddies?”
Did anything I say imply I’m pro-Hamas? Or anti-Jewish? No, I clearly wrote that I’m anti-IDF and anti-Netanyahu government. The government that shortly before the war started was facing massive protests due to its authoritarian policies, and that is rumoured by Israeli citizen to be using the war to distract the public from its aforementioned scandals.
You should also consider the fact that Israeli authorities propped up Hamas as a counterweight to PLO, which they feared would be able to successfully win Palestinian independence. And similarly to how Pakistan propped up the Taliban, now that the radical Islamists got into power, they begun conducting terror attacks on the territory of the country that helped them.
“Do you ever stop to think ‘Are we the baddies?’” says the person unironically supporting a government that calls its civilian victims “animals”
Ah so you only hate the
cosmopolitianzionist Jews then?And I see you’re onboard with the “scheming Jews” narrative. So you’re already on step 2 of the antisemitism treadmill.
You probably also look the other way when your political allies talk openly of committing genocide on Jews. Just like the socialists in the National Socialist party right? You know what happened to those useful idiot socialists back then on the night of the long knives?
You need to read a history book if you think that the purity of your ideology keeps you safe from your genocidal “friends”.
So what you’re saying is that because terrorists did horrible things, IDF committing genocide is a-okay? Because Russians are worse, we should not heavily criticize the Israeli army and government?
Great points to make!
The war in Gaza is the most documented war in history. What you’re seeing is war, not genocide. A war that was started by Hamas.
In most wars you don’t see the death and destruction it causes. The civilian deaths are just a number. Sudan, Yemen, Ukraine, etc. are just numbers to you so don’t have the emotional impact that actually seeing it has. But civilian deaths are a byproduct of war.
And once again Hamas started this war.
What happened on October 7 was genocide. The attempt to kill as many people as possible of a particular ethnic group.
There’s indication that support for Hamas has increased after October 7 in the Palestinian population. Probably why they did it. Fascist movements need to create hatred to maintain power after all.
I see you trying hard to “both sides” this, attempting to push a narrative that “Israel is just as bad as Hamas because they do genocide too” but that comes with the admission that Hamas is evil. So why are you allied with the evil genocidal maniacs in Hamas? Is it that when the genocide is against Jews it’s acceptable to you?
haven’t you been around long enough to realize that this isn’t a “pick one side” situation? surely you realize it goes far beyond oct 7 by now. because it really doesn’t sound like you understand this at all.
no. their screed indicates the lack the capacity for nuance or criticism of Israel or even introspection.
cut bait.
No but I’ve been around long enough to recognize the signs people are being coerced into a fascist cause, which is what the Free Palestine movement is.
If the Palestinian movement was about non-violent resistance, then sure I’d be onboard with that. But it’s the exact opposite of a non-violent resistance movement. You have people doing dog whistles like “from the River to the Sea.” You have people cosplaying as Hamas genocidal terrorists at rallies. Synagogue are being attacked, Jewish businesses are being burned down with with “Free Palestine” spray painted on them. Hamas calls for protest and people show up to those protests. What little effort was made (there was barely any effort at all I could see) to separate the “Free Palestine” movement from Hamas has clearly failed.
All of the fascist tactics are being used to further a cause which is ultimately about blood and soil.
Everyone just looks the other way and makes excuses for obvious antisemitic behavior because they don’t want to admit they’re a part of a violent and genocidal movement. Nobody will even consider the question of “are we the baddies?” even when the person going to the same protest they are is calling for extermination of Jews.
sounds like you could use a jump to conclusions mat.
you talk like you are some expert who has access to incredibly specific and impossible data. in reality you’ve clearly picked the israeli side and don’t care that they have slaughtered a ratio of 10 to 1, have reduced gaza to completely unlivable conditions and show no signs of stopping.
who the fuck cares about whether protests are a mix of racists and not? how is that the thing to be focused on in this crisis? innocent human beings are being unreasonably killed. fuck right off trying to muddy up this issue to support that.
A war started by Hamas
An organisation formed in 1987 started a war in 1967? Did they utilise Delorean-propelled grenades?
Do you actually think you’re making a compelling argument by pretending to be incredibly stupid?
“Durrrr… what war are you talking about? I don’t understand anything that’s happening right now!”
How is it stupid to understand that recent events are a continuation of a decades long conflict begun with the Six Day War of 1967?
Anyone with a modicum of knowledge on the conflict in general would see that I threw you an easy pitch for the sake of a joke. If you had knowledge of the issue, rather than what news outlets deigned to tell you, you could have retorted by asking who initiated the Six Day War. You could have even made the very valid point that this whole conflict is all caused by British imperialism stemming from the Balfour Declaration of 1917, an act appeasement by the British Government brought about by decades of anti-semitism in British politics; this is my actual stance. The reason you did none of this is because all of these terms like Six Day War and Balfour Declaration are completely new to you, as you have no actual knowledge of the subject.
How many people that Hamas is sending out to “martyr” themselves were even alive in 1967?
It’s a typical fascist tactic to make people upset about something that happened in a history book. The word fascist literally comes from Mussolini making a callback to the Roman Empire to make Italians upset over not ruling over lands that their long dead ancestors ruled over.
Obviously I’m talking about the hostilities that began on October 7. But you just can’t pass up an opportunity to spread grievances over some historical wrongs that happened before any of us were born.
So 56 years is so long ago as to be ancient history that has no impact on the politics of today? Everyone involved in the conflict is less than 56 years old? Learn to actually form an argument, instead of calling fascist at the first opportunity, especially when you’re arguing on the side of Likud.
It’s impossible to view the October attack in isolation when it is a direct consequence of the chain of events and continuous prolonged period of hostility described in my previous comment. Pull a different one.
