• jeffw@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Sanctions disproportionately hurt innocent civilians. Sanctioning individuals is one thing but entire nations shouldn’t be sanctioned. I thought we learned our lesson from Cuba but apparently not

      Edit: for all the neolibs and righties downvoting me, this probably won’t do much to convince you. For anyone else, here’s an explanation on why sanctions are a terrible idea:

      https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/sanctions-economy-foreign-policy/tnamp/

      Here’s an in depth look at why sanctions fail:

      https://www.jstor.org/stable/2539368

      Basically, the entire point of sanctions if to hurt civilians. The logic is supposed to be that they will rise up and force a political change due to being angry and, often, starving to death. But that rarely happens. We just end up torturing poor people while wealthy elites get by just fine.

      • woop_woop@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Isn’t that part of the point? If the populace suffers, government changes are more likely

            • njm1314@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              You’re suggesting that the end of Apartheid was caused solely by the US sanctions causing a popular revolt in South africa?

          • woop_woop@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Arguably any revolution comes from a critical mass of the population being unhappy…

            • njm1314@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              History shows it’s never quite that clear cut. However that’s rather irrelevant. I’m asking when have US sanctions sparked a popular revolution that overthrew a government that was sanctioned?

        • jeffw@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          It’s still inhumane. It’s fine to starve people out via sanctions but not via bombings? There’s a reason people like Sanders continue to oppose sanctions

          • EchoCT@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            That’s the inhumane condition you care about? Not the 34000 dead? Murdering journalists, doctors, food workers? None of that?

            • jeffw@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Sanctions don’t stop that. So you have a genocide and a starving populace in a second country. JFC when did Lemmy turn into a bunch of neolibs?

                • jeffw@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Neoliberals love sanctions. Leftists typically oppose suffering.

                  • beardown@lemm.ee
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                    2 months ago

                    Israel is a democracy, or so we have been told.

                    Which means sanctions would motivate the voters to elect a new government that opposes genocide. Which is the result we want.

                    Therefore, sanctions are justified because they would stop Israel’s genocide of Gaza by forcing Israeli voters to face the consequence of voting for genocidal fascists

          • woop_woop@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Which would be better to you? You’re a civilian somewhere - do you prefer to watch your livelyhood slowly being destroyed by your government or do you want a boom?

            I’d assume the former gives you a chance to recognize it and do something, the latter is just boom.

            • jeffw@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              False dichotomy. Sanctions don’t stop genocidal maniacs. They just ADD suffering to the world. Would I rather have 1 million people suffer or 2 million? I know the answer!

                • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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                  2 months ago

                  The Palestinian populace is made to suffer in an attempt to produce a regime change.

                  • Psychodelic@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    Yea, it’s unfortunate how ignorant, and intellectually dishonest this conversation is, so far.

                    When I think of sanctions today, I think of Trump putting sanctions on Venezuela, tons of leftists saying that will disproportionately hurt the people living there, the country’s finances going belly up, then thousands of Venezuelan refugees looking for a new home, and then of course the US denying its involvement and refusing to help and acrually choosing to spend ridiculous amounts of money to make the situation worse for literally everyone.

      • SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Sanctions have been used many times since Cuba with varying success.

        I’d say this situation calls for them to protect other innocent civilians.

        • wurzelgummidge@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Yes, also; Afghanistan, The Balkans, Belarus, Central African Republic, China, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia, Hong Kong, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Mali, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Somalia, Sudan, South Sudan, Syria, Ukraine, Venezuela, Yemen, Zimbabwe and countless individuals

        • jeffw@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Great examples of suffering people! Especially North Korea.

          Edit: and also cases where the sanctions did literally nothing to change those governments’ actions