Oh hell yes I have been wanting to rant about this
So my main reasons for saying cats should be kept inside at all times do not apply to large dogs:
dangerous to wildlife – dogs are loud, oafish and slow. My dog couldn’t catch an animal if her life depended on it
vulnerable to predation – again nothing around here could take down a large dog except maybe a bear, but they tend to stay away from people and dogs
can get run over by a car – only an issue if dog goes in the road
All 3 of these issues are negated if the dog is properly contained by a fence. Unlike cats, dogs aren’t climbers and so can be easily confined.
As long as the weather is good, and the enclosure is large… Say a tenth of an acre back yard, or maybe larger, a dog would be perfectly fine outside and maybe even beneficial by keeping pests away, particularly deer. And likely would be happier and more stimulated than they would be trapped inside as long as they have access to shelter, food and water, and frequent contact with people.
The whole “dogs are social animals and need to be kept in your house and allowed to sleep in your bed and eat out of your plates” attitude in a lot of dog specific spaces is nuts imo and a uniquely American phenomenon. They are not people, they are dogs.
I would feel the same way about cats except as we have outlined many times cats allowed to free roam are a danger to themselves and unlike dogs can’t be reliably confined, except with something like a catio.
Under no circumstances should an animal be allowed to wander off of its owner’s property, not only because it’s disrespectful but also people are more dangerous than wildlife, putting out poison and stuff.
The whole “dogs are social animals and need to be kept in your house and allowed to sleep in your bed and eat out of your plates” attitude in a lot of dog specific spaces is nuts imo and a uniquely American phenomenon. They are not people, they are dogs.
💯
It fucks me up when I meet someone with a border Collie or a husky or any other kind of working dog and the owner treats it like an indoor cat. They’ll say shit like “oh he’s just a little crazy” when the poor thing inevitably acts out because it gets nowhere near the attention and exercise it literally needs.
If you’re not taking your working dog for 5 mile runs every day then you better have a fuckton of open space they can play on. Otherwise it’s just cruel
The whole “dogs are social animals and need to be kept in your house and allowed to sleep in your bed and eat out of your plates” attitude in a lot of dog specific spaces is nuts imo and a uniquely American phenomenon
Same. Or if you have a vegetable garden you have to high fence it. They’re dumb as hell so if they manage to make their way into a fenced in area they’re going to bust out the side.
I like looking at them, they’re cute, but they are super destructive and overpopulated. They need predation. Bring back wolves, unironically
I feel like arguing both it isn’t dangerous to wildlife and also it keeps pests away is at contradiction to each other here. Like it’s still fucking with whatever is left of it’s nature, even if it’s not actively killing it.
This is a good point and I’m glad you brought it up. A dog will frighten wildlife but won’t kill it. Like a dog will never be able to actually catch and kill a deer. So they’ll scare it away but won’t actually harm it. This is in the context of being in a fenced in area, as opposed to like a wildlife preserve where maybe a single off leash dog isn’t a problem but hundreds of them are
Livestock and rodents though. My sister found out her dog had a monstrous prey drive the hard way. Took it on holiday out in the country side and it killed a rabbit, attacked a sheep, and tried to fight a fox. An otherwise very normal and even timid city raised dog.
Wow interesting. I am surprised a dog could catch a rabbit, seriously. I didn’t think they’d be fast enough but clearly I am mistaken.
Maybe it’s a breed thing. Anyway clearly I shouldn’t generalize the way I did, clearly it’s a call that has to be made on a case by case basis. At any rate I think there are some instances where it’s ok to let a dog spend most of its time outside, but definitely not for cats
It is surprising, yeah, considering it was not a specialised hunting breed. Could’ve been a dozy old rabbit I suppose.
I’d be less surprised if a whippet or a borsoi caught one. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a Jack Russell came back with any sort of rodent in its maw.
But yeah, otherwise true. But then isn’t it cruel to make a cat live a life indoors? Once upon a time they were wild and free to catch as many birds as they liked.
Surely there are different areas cats could roam free - rats and cats from colonist ships destroyed flightless bird populations. But where were cats and rats native in the first place? What’s a safe place to be for them to exist as a non-invasive species?
I don’t really have a strong opinion considering I don’t, never have, and never will own a cat.
Dogs on the other hand of course get to rule the roost. I think they can be domesticated much further away from their wild side, unlike cats.
A dogsitter of my dogs now trusts them to hang out unsupervised with their uncaged guinea pigs and rabbits. One of my dogs is completely unbothered by their existence. The other approached a gerbil - the room went silent in anticipation of an urgent gerbil rescue mission - only for the dog to give it a huge lick and then wander off, uninterested.
In fact, that dog once brought back a baby squirrel in his mouth. I was anticipating a bloody cleanup, but no, it was completely alive and well, and he set it down in front of me and stayed by it, licking it every now and again. The local wild animal rescue team came by and said it had probably fallen out of its tree and been left to die. They said it was fine but in a shocked state, and took it away, presumably nursed it and released it.
I was shocked. Up to that point, given his overall demeanor as a scrappy squirrel chaser, who often didn’t quite understand the boundaries of play fighting, I thought he would’ve ripped that thing to pieces.
I’m not going to blame the state of things on like your dog or a dog specifically, but it kind of gets into “no drop of water feels responsible for the wave” thing as per frightening wildlife. Like that’s still bad for the wildlife, just less bad. It seems to draw the line at “anything that isn’t actually shooting them is not somewhat bad”, but I don’t think that works out, because you can apply it to pretty much anything that is detrimental to nature.
The whole “dogs are social animals and need to be kept in your house and allowed to sleep in your bed and eat out of your plates” attitude in a lot of dog specific spaces is nuts imo and a uniquely American phenomenon. They are not people, they are dogs.
dogs are much less likely to be fed table scraps & waste in the US, yankees invented the industrial food waste rebranded into ‘pet food’ and many dog owners i’ve met refuse to feed them ‘people food’. which is sort of fraught because on the one hand a lot of shitty sugary yankee food can make a dog upset like it will make an unaccustomed human upset, but normal food is fine
Oh hell yes I have been wanting to rant about this
So my main reasons for saying cats should be kept inside at all times do not apply to large dogs:
dangerous to wildlife – dogs are loud, oafish and slow. My dog couldn’t catch an animal if her life depended on it
vulnerable to predation – again nothing around here could take down a large dog except maybe a bear, but they tend to stay away from people and dogs
can get run over by a car – only an issue if dog goes in the road
All 3 of these issues are negated if the dog is properly contained by a fence. Unlike cats, dogs aren’t climbers and so can be easily confined.
As long as the weather is good, and the enclosure is large… Say a tenth of an acre back yard, or maybe larger, a dog would be perfectly fine outside and maybe even beneficial by keeping pests away, particularly deer. And likely would be happier and more stimulated than they would be trapped inside as long as they have access to shelter, food and water, and frequent contact with people.
The whole “dogs are social animals and need to be kept in your house and allowed to sleep in your bed and eat out of your plates” attitude in a lot of dog specific spaces is nuts imo and a uniquely American phenomenon. They are not people, they are dogs.
I would feel the same way about cats except as we have outlined many times cats allowed to free roam are a danger to themselves and unlike dogs can’t be reliably confined, except with something like a catio.
Under no circumstances should an animal be allowed to wander off of its owner’s property, not only because it’s disrespectful but also people are more dangerous than wildlife, putting out poison and stuff.
💯
It fucks me up when I meet someone with a border Collie or a husky or any other kind of working dog and the owner treats it like an indoor cat. They’ll say shit like “oh he’s just a little crazy” when the poor thing inevitably acts out because it gets nowhere near the attention and exercise it literally needs.
If you’re not taking your working dog for 5 mile runs every day then you better have a fuckton of open space they can play on. Otherwise it’s just cruel
Lapdogs generally were not bred in America
I’m specifically talking about large dogs here I wouldn’t stick a Chihuahua outside
Your post implied you considered deer to be pests, which makes me think you must be fifty feet tall
Ha no I am normal height but I assure you deer are absolutely pests for anyone who lives in the country
They do so much damage to my young fruit trees.
I’ll be happy to share with them when we get fruit, but the trees need to survive to the point where the deer snacking on some leaves won’t kill them!
I’ve taken to installing small fences around the trees that the deer can easily reach over but discourage the fawns from stripping my saplings.
Same. Or if you have a vegetable garden you have to high fence it. They’re dumb as hell so if they manage to make their way into a fenced in area they’re going to bust out the side.
I like looking at them, they’re cute, but they are super destructive and overpopulated. They need predation. Bring back wolves, unironically
I feel like arguing both it isn’t dangerous to wildlife and also it keeps pests away is at contradiction to each other here. Like it’s still fucking with whatever is left of it’s nature, even if it’s not actively killing it.
This is a good point and I’m glad you brought it up. A dog will frighten wildlife but won’t kill it. Like a dog will never be able to actually catch and kill a deer. So they’ll scare it away but won’t actually harm it. This is in the context of being in a fenced in area, as opposed to like a wildlife preserve where maybe a single off leash dog isn’t a problem but hundreds of them are
Livestock and rodents though. My sister found out her dog had a monstrous prey drive the hard way. Took it on holiday out in the country side and it killed a rabbit, attacked a sheep, and tried to fight a fox. An otherwise very normal and even timid city raised dog.
Wow interesting. I am surprised a dog could catch a rabbit, seriously. I didn’t think they’d be fast enough but clearly I am mistaken.
Maybe it’s a breed thing. Anyway clearly I shouldn’t generalize the way I did, clearly it’s a call that has to be made on a case by case basis. At any rate I think there are some instances where it’s ok to let a dog spend most of its time outside, but definitely not for cats
It is surprising, yeah, considering it was not a specialised hunting breed. Could’ve been a dozy old rabbit I suppose.
I’d be less surprised if a whippet or a borsoi caught one. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a Jack Russell came back with any sort of rodent in its maw.
But yeah, otherwise true. But then isn’t it cruel to make a cat live a life indoors? Once upon a time they were wild and free to catch as many birds as they liked.
Surely there are different areas cats could roam free - rats and cats from colonist ships destroyed flightless bird populations. But where were cats and rats native in the first place? What’s a safe place to be for them to exist as a non-invasive species?
I don’t really have a strong opinion considering I don’t, never have, and never will own a cat.
Dogs on the other hand of course get to rule the roost. I think they can be domesticated much further away from their wild side, unlike cats.
A dogsitter of my dogs now trusts them to hang out unsupervised with their uncaged guinea pigs and rabbits. One of my dogs is completely unbothered by their existence. The other approached a gerbil - the room went silent in anticipation of an urgent gerbil rescue mission - only for the dog to give it a huge lick and then wander off, uninterested.
In fact, that dog once brought back a baby squirrel in his mouth. I was anticipating a bloody cleanup, but no, it was completely alive and well, and he set it down in front of me and stayed by it, licking it every now and again. The local wild animal rescue team came by and said it had probably fallen out of its tree and been left to die. They said it was fine but in a shocked state, and took it away, presumably nursed it and released it.
I was shocked. Up to that point, given his overall demeanor as a scrappy squirrel chaser, who often didn’t quite understand the boundaries of play fighting, I thought he would’ve ripped that thing to pieces.
I’m not going to blame the state of things on like your dog or a dog specifically, but it kind of gets into “no drop of water feels responsible for the wave” thing as per frightening wildlife. Like that’s still bad for the wildlife, just less bad. It seems to draw the line at “anything that isn’t actually shooting them is not somewhat bad”, but I don’t think that works out, because you can apply it to pretty much anything that is detrimental to nature.
dogs are much less likely to be fed table scraps & waste in the US, yankees invented the industrial food waste rebranded into ‘pet food’ and many dog owners i’ve met refuse to feed them ‘people food’. which is sort of fraught because on the one hand a lot of shitty sugary yankee food can make a dog upset like it will make an unaccustomed human upset, but normal food is fine