Something is wrong with this split-screen picture. On one side, former president Donald Trump rants about mass deportations and claims to have stopped “wars with France,” after being described by his longest-serving White House chief of staff as a literal fascist. On the other side, commentators debate whether Vice President Kamala Harris performed well enough at a CNN town hall to “close the deal.”
…
Let’s review: First, Harris was criticized for not doing enough interviews — so she did multiple interviews, including with nontraditional media. She was criticized for not doing hostile interviews — so she went toe to toe with Bret Baier of Fox News. She was criticized as being comfortable only at scripted rallies — so she did unscripted events, such as the town hall on Wednesday. Along the way, she wiped the floor with Trump during their one televised debate.
Trump, meanwhile, stands before his MAGA crowds and spews nonstop lies, ominous threats, impossible promises and utter gibberish. His rhetoric is dismissed, or looked past, without first being interrogated.
Can we stop putting up articles stuck behind paywalls please?
This is a feature not a bug in a slaver’s system.
It’s the image that each candidate has crafted. Harris is running as an ultra-competent bureaucrat who will follow all the rules. Trump is running as an angry old fart who will break them.
Fascists in the media lionize Trump because they love the idea of a Rebel Billionaire breaking all the rules to MAGA.
And because so much of the media is owned and operated by fascists, you get a stark Trump bias.
But what are Dems going to do about it? Break up these mega-corp news conglomerates? Prosecute flagrant violations of election law by billionaire media magnets? Threaten these oligarchs in any conceivable way?
No. They’re just going to get strung around by the nose, then complain that The Low Information Voter didn’t see through the bullshit filling up their screens and airwaves.
The FTC is just starting to go after oligopolies. So yes, institutions supported by Democratic bureaucrats are going after powerful conglomerates. Results can be seen in the denial of the Capri tapestry merger and the language used by the judge in the case.
The FTC is just starting to go after oligopolies.
Will Harris replace Lina Khan once she gets into Biden’s seat?
Depends if she goes behind Israeli lobby.
sigh
Laughing out loud bruh… A next level one liner burn… ʘ‿ʘ
Anyone who equates “not perfect” with supporting a genocide is not worth being read and taken seriously.
It’s not about being perfect. It’s about not regressing to a 2004 republican. That doesn’t appealt to Republicans who have moved further right and not to the left who refuse to budge.
It’s willful ignorance to complain that she needs to be perfect when the people complaining are often specific about the things they care about that are being ignored.
And if those are being ignored you can be shocked they won’t vote for her and you must admit she’s clearly not courting those voters either.
This is either a non-issue cause she is going for exactly the voters she wants or she’s willingly creating a flaw by deciding to court votes that won’t be enough to win.
I don’t get how this is still an argument. It’s happening exactly as participants are making it happen.Democrats credentials for presidency - they are not Trump.
Edit - In any other election cycle this is a legitimate question.
What are you bringing to the table? What is your policy position?
For both the parties.
Just because this election only party is eligible to represent doesnt mean that the questions shouldn’t be asked. Browbeating undecided voters for the questions is wrong and might give the result no one wants.
they are not… a sexist, traitorous sellout and that’s scratching the surface
In a two party system this is always true. But what do you mean by “Trump”. What does it mean to not be like him?
What does it mean to not be like him?
That is the rhetoric that is prevalent on lemmy.
Centrists look on Trump’s base and wonder why they can’t have a mindless cult too.
Micheal Bloomberg hates Donald Trump because he ain’t Donald Trump.
And yet you spineless fucking cowards didn’t endorse, so your words mean nothing
“You criticized her for not being good at X so she did X a bunch!”
Yeah but she’s bad at it and it went really poorly for her and hurt her numbers.
These people are fucking idiots.
I’d love nothing more than to see her just spend an hour straight laying into Trump and Vance with f-bomb strewn attacks and continuous heavy-handed insults. I think she’d probably convert some Republicans if she did that.
Yes, that’s the advantage of leading a cult.
Weird that this has to be explained this late into the game but…
Trump is running on the promise of enacting fascism and using state power to mete out retribution to the ‘undesirables’ that his voters blame for their lack of power. To this end there is nothing he can say or do that will make them not vote for him. He is promising power and as long as he wins his promise is kept.
Kamala is running on a platform of ‘not fascism’ and to that end she does need to provide a coherent alternate worldview to mindless retribution. It’s not enough for her to walk the middle of the road and say as little as possible. She needs to give people a diametrically opposed worldview. She needs to be capable of explaining why fascist retribution isn’t good or helpful. She can not just be a diet Republican. She needs to have coherent answers to their obvious bullshit.
Hope this helps. Horrifying that the people who are a decade into Trumpism and ostensibly responsible for stopping it don’t seem to have the slightest clue what motivates it or how to counter it.
It sounds like you’re coming at this from the perspective that Trump voters like Trump because his fascist talk makes them feel like he’ll wield Presidential power to “fight the evils of the people at the top of society”, but I disagree. I think for a lot of Trump voters it boils down to at least one of a few feelings:
a) abortion is murder, I’ll vote against the side that clearly supports abortion more
b) Immigrants and LGBTQ+ people are the devil
c) I want to afford the stuff I wish I had, and Trump will help me do that.
d) Every left-leaning person of power of any kind is a demon and should get what’s coming to them
IMO only the MAGA voters care about d). The average non-MAGA-but-still-Trump voter doesn’t care really care about “shadowy figures” “getting what’s coming to them”, they just want better lives for themselves as in c).
To sway those people, she doesn’t have to provide a “diametrically opposed worldview” to fascism - that makes it sound like what you think she needs is to run on creating a completely different way of living. It just means appealing to those in the camp of a), b) and/or c). Swaying believers of a) or b) without actually appealing to anti-abortion, anti-immigrant, or anti-LGBTQ+ reform is tricky, and tackling c) comes down to her positioning herself as the better candidate economically, but people in that camp have varied ideas on what’s best for the economy, so that’s tricky too.
But regardless, everyone who cares about the election and isn’t already in any of those camps isn’t gonna vote for Trump anyway, no matter how Harris campaigns.
She has been talking about a different way of doing things though, I got the feeling she talked about many policies in the debate that people have ignored.
Non American here, but it really feels like there is nothing she can do to shake the non-trump thing. Lemmy is full of “Trump bad”, but I’m missing the “Kamala good”. Its as though no one wants to say it, and it feels like it always comes back to Israel. That is understandable too, however she is not a one policy candidate, however it feels like that is how its reduced.
Honestly I get the feeling that its either:
- People being very opposed to one policy enough that its blinding them
- Literal trolls trying to make enough noise to make it a trump vs. Non-trump to disenfranchise the voters
I want to see the “Kamala stands good on policy X” posts here. They should exist but where are they?
No I dont condone the Israel shit, but there has to be more to it. That’s too simple.
Is she?
She just got on national TV and refused to support trans rights. Democrats ran to the right of fascists on militarizing the border. She is pro imperialism. She isn’t committed to climate change. She’s not going to meaningfully redistribute wealth. Looking at how desperate Americans are right now do you really think that coming out with a plan to raise the top marginal tax rate from 30 to 35 percent or whatever is some massive rallying cry that’s going to make people re-evaluate their worldviews? She’s not even that strong on abortion rights.
She just got on national TV and refused to support trans rights.
Not sure exactly what you’re referring to, but if you’re referring to the Fox News interview, I think she addressed trans rights as well as she possibly could’ve to…a Fox News audience…without completely losing them.
Democrats ran to the right of fascists on militarizing the border.
I call BS.
She isn’t committed to climate change
That’s too strong a statement. She co-sponsored the Green New Deal, gave an entire speech about climate change at COP28 and again this past July, and has an entire “Lower Energy Costs and Tackle the Climate Crisis” section on her issues page. On top of that, actions speak louder than words, and the one meaningful action she can wield as VP - casting tie-breaking Senate votes - was used to enact the Inflation Reduction Act, which works in a meaningful way to combat climate change.
She’s not going to meaningfully redistribute wealth. Looking at how desperate Americans are right now do you really think that coming out with a plan to raise the top marginal tax rate from 30 to 35 percent or whatever is some massive rallying cry that’s going to make people re-evaluate their worldviews?
Idk what your metric for “meaningful wealth redistribution is” but the kind of “wealth redistribution” many middle Americans want is the kind where they can afford to start a new family, and/or afford their first home, and/or afford to start a new business. All of those have been addressed explicitly by Harris and her policy plan, and they go meaningfully beyond what we have now. Your other comment that she’d ‘raise the top marginal tax rate by 5% or whatever’ makes it sound like that’s literally the only action she’d take to make the lives of middle-class people better.
She’s not even that strong on abortion rights.
You’re not outright saying she’s weak on abortion, b/c I think you and I both know she isn’t - she is clearly far more outwardly pro-choice than Trump.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2023/07/14/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-on-combatting-climate-change-and-building-a-clean-energy-economy/ She is far better on climate change than Trump. She supports an energy transition. Trump hates wind farms.
You’re right, let’s go with Hitler instead.
It’s not just “one policy” though. That kind of reduces it to a bloodless difference of opinion or something. We’re not haggling over tax rates or something, this is a literal, ongoing genocide. If Kamala is wrong on genocide, she can’t be “good”, no matter what other policy positions she has.
Sure. I totally understand that, but the stakes are different during an election in a system which at this very moment cannot and will not change. It serves to disenfranchise people.
You can and should campaign about this issue. At the same time, the stakes at present are not about whether the US will exit Israel or not. No amount of disapproval will change that fact, so why not focus on the things that will change, and come back to this later?
There’s no “coming back to this later”. People are being slaughtered as we speak. Later is too late. If we swallow this, then we’ve lost everything.
does need to provide a coherent alternate worldview to mindless retribution
Talking about a border wall is hardly coherent with rejecting mindless retribution. Harris and Waltz aren’t at all blaming the elites for working people hardship, but they do blame the immigrants as well, more indirectly but still.
Yeah, because they need to convince people in the middle to vote for them, and people in the middle are stupid and racist.
Why not promise trumpism with a wink, and then deliver none of it?
Because fascists can always move father right. You can’t out Republican the Republicans.
Because trumpists won’t buy the act but Democrats will.
Her supporters on the lemmyverse keep saying that’s what’s she’s doing…
When you sign up for a ml account, is there a test you have to take where all the correct answers are opposite of reality?
Literally nobody is saying or thinking that
That’s too bad; that was the only thing left that could convince me to vote for her.
And if a frog had wings it wouldn’t bump its ass when it jumps.
Kamala isn’t really standing for anything, is trying to be too safe, and I don’t think it’s going too work to well
She stands for a lot of things, this exact kind of meaningless bullshit is the fucking problem
[What the fuck are you talking about?] (https://kamalaharris.com/issues)
This is exactly the issue that the post is about
Vice President Harris grew up in a middle class home as the daughter of a working mom. She believes that when the middle class is strong, America is strong. That’s why as President, Kamala Harris will create an Opportunity Economy where everyone has a chance to compete and a chance to succeed — whether they live in a rural area, small town, or big city.
Vice President Kamala Harris has made clear that building up the middle class will be a defining goal of her presidency. That’s why she will make it a top priority to bring down costs and increase economic security for all Americans. As President, she will fight to cut taxes for more than 100 million working and middle class Americans while lowering the costs of everyday needs like health care, housing, and groceries. She will bring together organized labor and workers, small business owners, entrepreneurs, and American companies to create good paying jobs, grow the economy, and ensure that America continues to lead the world.
There is not a single policy included in this two paragraph long statement.
It’s the most transparent Politician Speak, saying an earful while telling you absolutely nothing.
If you could have bothered to read a few lines more, there’s an entire 76-page PDF attached outlining plans and goals.
Now I’m not asking you to read the whole thing, but you’re being disingenuous.
there’s an entire 76-page PDF
How much of it is more fluff like this?
Now I’m not asking you to read the whole thing
If you’d like to single out the policies you think are meaningful, I’ll happily pick through that chapter. But if the first two paragraphs are empty pablum, I’m not wasting my time with the next fifty.
But if the first two paragraphs are empty pablum, I’m not wasting my time with the next fifty
Great idea. Have a good day.
And what doesTrump stands for? Let’s see. Revenge against anyone who he doesn’t like, threatens political opponents with military action, across the board tariffs that will result in retaliation from other countries, more tax cuts for the rich,… Oh and Lots of fear mongering.
He is dangerous.
I don’t think he is going to work too well.
Right but it’s not about him. You can’t point out how the sociopath with cult of sycophants is a problem cause that is obvious to those of us that care.
To those that don’t it’s just mud slinging that doesn’t answer the fact they don’t like her policies.
It won’t work to just not be the other, you got to be preferable. I thought this was learned in 2016 but I see a lot this repeating itself.When someone brings up they don’t like Harris’ policies it’s not enough to shout back the other guy is obviously worse. It doesn’t answer the point. And people are not that rational.
I thought this was learned in 2016 but I see a lot this repeating itself.
I’m pretty sure a lot of people who helped run Hillary’s campaign are also helping to run Kamala’s. They don’t learn lol.
She passed the bar exam and operated as a lawyer for years independently defending special assault victims and others victims. She never went bankrupt and has been successful
Trump boasted you need to be “quite” smart to win golf club championships during the debate with Biden, he went bankrupt multiple times and raped women. He can’t even hang onto lawyers
Yet Republicans are now calling kamala incompetent
Well of course Kamala is incompetent to them, their goal is to destroy America and only Trump can deliver that.
He doesn’t even need to be president to do that. He’s succeeding regardless.
So might as well vote kamala if that’s the reason
I’ll take the downvotes, but a large part of this is because she’s a woman. “One candidate (a man) can rant about gibberish while the other (a woman) has to be perfect.” doesn’t just apply to politics, this sounds like every office I’ve ever worked in.
a large part of this is because she’s a woman.
the slogan I’ve seen on some shirts, “Good thing we are only looking for equality and not revenge” comes to mind.
As a straight white man, I wouldn’t mind wearing a shirt that says “Good thing they only want equality and not revenge” and let people guess who it is referring to.
the slogan I’ve seen on some shirts, “good thing we are only looking for equality and not revenge” comes to mind.
Jesus Christ, I love that so much.
For sure.
It does not help that her town hall tone was very… very … I don’t know… pleading/worrying/low energy. I almost had Hillary feelings at some points.
She had fire, spirit… her campaign has toned down a lot since the DNC… Which is unfortunate.
Edit! For the Down voters, I never said trump good… he’s horrible. I was merely pointing out that her messaging changed, probably under the directions of the DNC. Cookie cutter plain answers… everything focus grouped.
Edit! For the Down voters, I never said trump good… he’s horrible
No centrist cares. They see any admission that Harris is anything other than perfect as Trump support.
While any sane person can see a ham sandwich is preferrable over trump…
Of course. But that doesn’t mean that people who would prefer pastrami support Trump.
For sure.
It does not help that her…
And there it is, folks.
There is what? I can see the difference between pre DNC Kamala and post DNC, can’t you? The tone is more tempered and she is sometimes almost whiney in her conversations, way too coached.
Before the DNC she was way more relatable, joyous, and direct. A powerfully woman that I think a lot of people looked up to. Now every answer goes back to the talking points… she hardly answered any questions or committed to anything. Even her running mate toned down.
She is still a better choice over a rambling senile fascist but I think the US deserve the pre DNC Kamala and I hope that’s what they get when she is elected. A powerfully woman that is not controlled by the democratic party.
The double standards applied to her are misogynistic and the media is doing everything to samewash trump and put weight on Kamala to be perfect. Trump has concepts of a plan and the media goes on and on how Kamala should show direct policy plans and have it all figured out. Trump was president for 4 years but her track record as VICE president seems to be the point of debate. It’s disgusting.
From a non Americans viewpoint I also have to say that it probably does not help that the Dems platform now seems very close to bush republicans on a lot of things… the Overton window moved… a lot.
This is a result of the electoral college. It is more important to get centrist states to vote than for millions urban voters to be excited.
There is what?
there’s the ridiculous double standard.
take every critique you have for her - pleading/worrying/low energy - they all apply in spades IF NOT MORE to trump.
and no one’s questioned Kamala’s loyalties, but Trump’s talking to putin on the regular.
YET SOMEHOW THIS IS STILL A CONTEST? double standard bullshit
1000000% the double standard that is applied to kamala compared to Trump seen in the media makes my blood boil. And it should do so for everyone. But the propaganda machine of the billionaire class is very effective.
I wasn’t comparing Kamala to Trump (as there is no comparison possible, she is leagues beyond anything he can even dream of… although Id favor bernie over her any day), I was merely observing a difference between pre and post DNC Kamala. Now she feels more like a Hillary bot in the town hall.
I also believe there are no centrist or undecided voters in the US, only people still ashamed to say out loud they will vote for an open fascist.
But the propaganda machine of the billionaire class is very effective.
and their control over endorsements see LA Times & Wapo. It’s… fucking demoralizing.
BUT!
I think he did a great job. Would be fantastic to see this reaction widespread.
Oh wow… good on him. More people need to do this.
This is the most 🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅comment I’ve read all day.
Keep it weird, US
