• doingthestuff
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      2 days ago

      How can you have a society where everyone is equal and free if you don’t define the right of individuals to be equal and free? There are always people and organizations who would give preference to their tribe, whether for well-intentioned or nefarious reasons.

      • NSRXN@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 days ago

        How can you have a society where everyone is equal and free if you don’t define the right of individuals to be equal and free

        it seems pretty obvious that we can just observe whether everybody is equal and free, and if somebody is preventing somebody else from being equal or free, tell them to knock it off.

        • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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          1 day ago

          and if somebody is preventing somebody else from being equal or free, tell them to knock it off.

          That’s what rights are.

          • NSRXN@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 day ago

            no, “rights” are an enlightenment era fiction created by people who were supposedly interested in empiricism, but never bothered to question whether rights exist.

            • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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              1 day ago

              Rights are things that as a society we agree people should be allowed to do. And if they’re prevented from doing them, we tell the people preventing them to knock it off.

              • NSRXN@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 day ago

                but we don’t agree. the government infringes on so-called inalienable rights all the time. often without repercussion.

                • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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                  1 day ago

                  So you agree that you believe in what everyone else calls rights, just that governments aren’t perfect. Which nobody said they were.

                  • NSRXN@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 day ago

                    no. I believe they don’t exist, and the fact of infringement proves that. they are a fiction, and one that creates barriers to liberty.

        • doingthestuff
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          2 days ago

          When people are told to change their behavior, sometimes their response is just to say fuck off. How could we possibly expect compliance without codifying what they should comply with? How would you deal with conflicting values? As much as governments are the single largest cause of mass murders and deaths, this is the one thing they are good for: defining parameters.

          • NSRXN@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 days ago

            How could we possibly expect compliance without codifying what they should comply with?

            none of this necessitates rights

      • NSRXN@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 days ago

        There are always people and organizations who would give preference to their tribe, whether for well-intentioned or nefarious reasons.

        you can’t prove this