Why do people here really not like Trotskyists? Is it just because of his beef with Stalin and not an actual criticism of his views? Do people really not think a global movement would be superior for the betterment of all people?
Edit: Thank you to everyone who provided context and history, y’all are a wealth of knowledge.
Okay but I kiiinda get the feeling y’all don’t actually want socialism for the western world, you just want it to burn. Like if America became AES, people would still yell death to Amerikkka.
Edit: Sorry this was an incredibly idealist take by me.
if America became AES it would necessarily involve decolonization. What would remain would hopefully not resemble the current formation, culture, or arrangement of America. Hopefully it wouldn’t even be called the same thing, or perhaps wouldn’t be a single country but perhaps even a loose confederation of indigenous nations and whatever remains in-between
It would be like saying we would also hate Israel if it became socialist. Yeah no shit, because Israel shouldn’t exist. So yea I’m always going to hate Amerikkka unless it’s stripped bare and the racism purged through decolonization, no matter how nominally socialist it gets
Maybe you come from a place that isn’t a settler colony so maybe that sort of perspective is lost on you?
Yeah, this was an extremely poor analogy, I have left it up as a testament to my stupidity
you’re not stupid if you were able to listen to your comrades and learn from it
It depends. When you say “socialism in the Western world” do you mean redistribution of all of the West’s plundered resources, land, and labor back to the Global South and indigenous peoples, or do you mean taking Elon’s shit because some global northerners feel like they deserve a bigger share of the plundered superprofits?
Yes, I would love global communism.
Which is what, to my understanding, Trotskyism argued for. But yeah, plenty of people have pointed out even if his writings point to that, in practice that is not really how Trotskyists act.
Cool yeah then we’re on the same page. I just personally think that when most Westerners talk about socialism they just want free heath care and longer holidays and who cares about where the resources that sustain that lifestyle come from?
Which is exactly why I think it’s important for the proletariat to be connected across state boundaries. Allows people to better understand current issues outside their own experience and what would have to be done to correct them. If two neighboring countries with vastly different natural resource reserves are both socialist and both countries allow free flow of trade (which I think any two socialist states should), it helps everyone involved.
In theory I agree with you but in practice I think many Western leftists need to develop some humility and willingness to engage as equals rather than talking down to non-Westerners.
Just because MLs reject permanent revolution doesn’t mean they reject internationalism.
Sounds like you are whinning about an extremely far hypothetical to try to hide your desire of whining about people chanting death to amerikkka today.
Pathetic.
Lol, not at all. Who was chanting death to amerikkka today? Maybe read the rest of my comments to help you understand that’s not what I am talking about.
https://hexbear.net/comment/4779141
To me either the US gets cool or we all die (because of the US), no in between
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I mean is that a yes? I’m trying to be serious.
If America became AES, of course I’d support it wholeheartedly, though I have a hard time picturing what that would look like.
Yeah, I mean I understand that the only realistic way is revolution, which is kind of hard to advocate for in public spaces, which I understand.
i’m another commenter but to me it’s not that it’s hard to advocate revolution, it’s that i can’t picture realistically happening in any meaningful and lasting way here
I’m talking like a cool revolution
sorry for doomerism but have you met westerners? they are decidedly uncool
they just haven’t been educated properly yet