Post text:
edit: As I’m seeing a lot of worry about the impact this will/could have on the community, please be assured we have the same mod team, and will be holding the community to the same standards. the same things that were always allowed will continue to be allowed and the same things that got things removed before will continue to get things removed before. Lemmy.world admins have agreed to allow us to run our community on our terms. It is my pleasure to announce that effective immediately, we are transferring our community to Lemmy.world! This has been a few months in the making, so my entire mod team is already on board. FAQ: Why? That’s a complicated question with a long answer! The primary difference is moderatorial and ideologial differences between my team and Ada’s excellent team of admins. We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this. In addition to this, we have had ongoing issues with federation and moderation that has caused a subpar experience for many people on other instances. How does this work? Currently, as there is not an easy way to transfer an entire community (trust me, we checked), we are locking the community as mod-only, and moving our focus to the 196 on lemmy.world. For you guys, functionally nothing has changed. What about the posts? Well, we tried to transfer them, but there was no real way to do so without absolutely destroying lemmy.world’s federation. For this reason, we are simply archiving this community as mod-only. Everything is staying up, you just won’t be able to post new content. Comments are still enabled, so we will continue to check our modlogs for some time after the transfer has settled. As for the posts on lemmy.world’s 196, we’re leaving those up too. From this point onwards, all posts made to that community are beholden to the rules you are all used to, but anything pre-existing is getting grandfathered in.
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE PUT THEM IN THE COMMENTS OF THIS POST, AND I’LL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER THEM. Once again, here’s the link to our new apartment of awesome. (universal: !196@lemmy.world)
This seems like it belongs more to fedilore, rather than here. Should I be allowing these posts? Rfc I guess
This has become the defacto community for issues related to bad moderation, so I think this fits
leave it up please this is very relevant to the PTB model
I think so because it’s a power tripping mod taking their ball and going home with it rather than let someone else play ball too.
It’s lore too but this is moderation bs.
I think it fits. Mods could move to another instance, create a new community, post about it, etc. without fucking with the existing one.
Locking the posts on their way out seems like a spite move against all the people not wanting to transfer (a lot, based on the comments). They could jusy as easily hand the community over to new mods instead of killing it. Seems like it’s be better for the community and the fediverse in general and align better with what the community wants.
After they leave, Ada could easily grant a request to open it back up under a different set of mods… you know, if someone were to want that sort of thing.:-D
Seems like the way to go, especially with how Ada wound up thrown under the bus for the decision to move.
And it may happen yet still, if people request it, however in the meantime there’s already !onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone that has >1000 users and >100 posts in ~4 hours. Compared to !196@lemmy.world that in the same time period has just 4 posts.
The community has already moved on, without the mods.:-) The power of the Fediverse has spoken!?
Locking posts with links to the other community is pretty standard practice. See !carnivore and !television or !carnivore@lemmy.world and !television@lemmy.world
Isn’t locked, and seems like if it was in the past it was done to solve a moderation problem.
Looks like this was consolidated into a similar smaller community in a way that the userbase isn’t complaining about.
These seem like totally unrelated, dissimilar situations and don’t do anything to indicate what happened in the OP is standard practice.
!carnivore@lemmy.world was locked because it was a community allowing harassment
!television@lemmy.world didn’t cause any uproar as the moderation was similar between LW and Lemm.ee, and the communities were very similar as well.
In this case there are more than 250 comments on that post, the vast majority of them being negative. Not sure the situations are similar.
I think the power tripping element here is that this seemingly happened in an instant without any (recent?) warning or communication to the users and it has to do with one of the biggest communities on lemmy
Though this isnt the typical senario where a mod abuses their power over an individual, so hmm
(I searched some fediverse drama communities, but didnt cover this issue.)
What is RFC? I don’t see it in the sidebar, I did a search and only found your previous post. If this is a new term, can you add it there to aid those of us with poor memories?:-D
Request for comments
Request for change, it’s more of open source/programming thing than this comm thing.
No. Request for Comments. RFCs are nearly finished proposals. They’re ways of projects to make announcements with a little bit of flexibility.
Ah, so they are. The ones I’ve read have always been pretty prescriptive so I just assumed the c meant change.
Personally I think it fits, which is why I posted.
I didn’t mean to sidestep the rules and will ofc take down the post if that’s what you want.
might be a bit borderline but probably fine, although it seems more like flouncing off than power tripping. would need more of a writeup to be drama/lore
someone on hexbear has posted blahaj admin ada’s message to the 196 mod team, relevant quote:
I have asked 196 for years now to have an active blahaj.zone mod so that someone can deal with the blahaj.zone reports that constantly come through and build up, but still, the best we got were mods with alt accounts that get checked every couple of days, leaving me to deal with the build up of reports on 196. Sometimes they would hang around there for days while I waited for a 196 mod to log in and look at them. And because you don’t like the way I deal with them, you drag me over the coals for my moderation style, despite no one from 196 stepping up to deal with those reports on a regular basis.
full text here https://lemm.ee/post/52977833/17597222
CLM
That throws the whole thing into a little bit of a new light. Moving to the community where it’ll be actively moderated makes quite a bit of sense to me, even if that means lemmy.world.
Then again, supposedly working moderation for moderators on remote instances is just around the corner with the next release. I don’t know if that is accurate, but this might have been a problem that was solvable if they were willing to wait a couple of months.
moderation is working, generally. it’s the lack of full report federation that is the primary issue currently.
So as long as you don’t need to see any of the reports, you can moderate. Got it. That’s exactly what I would describe as working, “generally.”
On the other hand, that won’t come out until 0.19.20 reportedly, at the earliest, while iirc it’s been a year since Lemmy.World upgraded to 0.19.3, and were planning on doing an upgrade in January/February. So it could be another full year after the Fediverse gets it but before it appears on Lemmy.World? 😜
More to the point though, how do moderators of one of the most active and perhaps controversial communities across all of Lemmy not bother to check in for two days most of the time? The way this post words things, Ada is the one being abused here, even as they are being thrown under the bus for not doing all of the moderation work to their satisfaction. If I were Ada, I’d be somewhat happy to see them go (though sad for the actual users who get caught up in all this drama).
Yeah, I thought it was planned for 0.20.
I think lemmy.world is the slowest to upgrade of all the instances. I’m not sure which party in the moderation will need to upgrade in order to make the thing work, but you might well be right that it won’t work for lemmy.world users until lemmy.world upgrades, which would mean maybe waiting six months to a year or so before things are actually working. Yet another reason not to mess around with lemmy.world, maybe.
And I completely agree with your assessment. It sounds to me, reading between the lines, like they were shamelessly abusing Ada’s volunteerism until it reached its breaking point, and then at that point instead of owning up to the real reasons why they need to move, they’re framing it as “moderatorial and ideologial differences” and “We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this.” and similar responsibility-avoidant bollocks.
Maybe I’m absolutely wrong about that, it’s hard to tell looking in from the outside from a single message. But that’s my initial read on the situation if I had to take a guess about it.
A couple of corrections here:
One is that while cross-instance moderation report federation won’t come until perhaps 0.19.20, that will not affect the new community, since both the community itself and the mods will be on Lemmy.World. It affected the situation previously but after the move won’t be an issue anymore.
Crucially, the issue likewise would have been moot if the mods had simply created blahaj alts - which they did - and bothered to log in for those once in a while and check the reports, which it seems they did not. These mods were always choosing to remain more affiliated with Lemmy.World than with blahaj, despite dumping the community into Ada’s lap. And now it’s simply come full circle with the mods moving it closer to themselves rather than log in once a day elsewhere.
Speaking of, the second issue is that from Ada’s own words, they (people keep saying “she” but I don’t see those pronouns listed in their account so I’m sticking with “they” here, I hope it’s not too confusing: I’ll use whatever Ada wants us to use) never reached the breaking point. It was the mods who allowed the reports to contaminate the modlog - which notably has no filters so this was a legit and actual hardship upon the instance administrator - and leave them there for days.
Even so, Ada wasn’t the one who told either the community or the mods to leave. Rather it was the mods who even after all of that, reached the breaking point where they refused to accept Ada’s call on how to run their own instance in the manner in which they best see fit.
Free hosting and admin services and even additional modding help is all not sufficient for those mods, nor does it seem that support of a good fraction of the community is necessary either (sort those comments by Top to easily see what I mean). Then are going to do it their own way. Or at least they’ll FAAFO, then be shocked - shocked I say! beshooketh! - when they see the community reopened under new modship after they’re gone.
Tbf I cannot imagine what hell a mod would have to endure at the helm of that community. Well, I hope they are okay with whatever comes, truly I wish that for them, bc I’d want the same for myself.:-)
Ha, yeah. Thanks for the clarification. And yes, I wouldn’t want to moderate 196, personally. Maybe that’s why they were happy to let Ada do it.
0.19.20,
0.20, not 0.19.20
Oh… that makes way more sense, thanks!:-)
0.20 is 3-6 months out according to Nutomic.
Additionally, here’s a quite detailed post on why it has taken LW so long to update this past year. I would hope not every patch would have this much delay.
Wow that looks like a lot of work to balance everything!:-)
Thanks
Ah. Well, forget what I said about a couple of months then… somehow I was still working on a timeline where it was estimated to be this month, but I think that was from quite a while ago, so it makes sense if it’s not accurate anymore.
The month timeline might be when Lemmy.World planned to update. But even then, they usually pick one that is a few steps behind. So perhaps in a month they’ll get 0.19.17?
I’d rather less moderation than bad moderation.
On the one hand it does seem a bit out of place, on the other hand if the mod team is doing this against most community members wishes it is kind of a power trip in a way?
I agree the lore site is better
The mandate of power tripping bastards, seems to be if the complaint is true, then there are actionable next steps. Censure from the community, elevating to admin, etc
then there are actionable next steps. Censure from the community, elevating to admin, etc
Blahaj admin taking over and unlocking the community seems like an actionable next step
Yeah thats a good point, I suppose I subconsciously took them at their word they had coordinated with the admin teams of both the source and destination instances already.
Ada says that it wasn’t done behind their back in the strictest, technical sense. However, it was basically the next thing to it, as their communication throws Ada under the bus, who only found out the details after they were publicly announced.
Does this mean, I have to block 196 a third time or is the block independent of domain/instance?
Sadly yes it has to get blocked again
there goes my monopoly?
“Federation prevents censorship and promotes balance”
merges into one instance
Seems like lw wants to do that everywhere https://feddit.org/post/7018270
git push --force
As soon as I read about this I thought it was a terrible idea, but other than the instance they chose, and the fact that they didn’t bother consulting the community (which are bad in their own right) I didn’t really have enough information, but since their mod team have started responding to people, it has become clear that it is not a community I want to participate in.
Beyond minimising and dismissing the legitimate concerns people have, and being very territorial over a community they had seemingly often left for someone else to mod for them, reading through the comments on one of the announcement posts, I found an example of the kind of “over modding” they disagreed with, and I recognised it as a comment that was removed from a post I had made. At the time I was very glad it, and several like it were removed, and was quite surprised a few days later to see them restored, and was really confused and disappointed. I took it as an orange, almost red flag, which along with a previous unrelated orange/red flag made me take a slight step back from the community.
Now reading Ada’s side of the story, it all makes a lot more sense - my guess is she had originally removed the comments (she had come on to the post to say she was intervening), and the 196 team then swept through and restored a whole chunk of them back when they finally got around to modding themselves.
I’m almost glad this happened, because now I know who restored those comments, and whose modding to be wary of.
Bottom line - these are not the mods for me, and since an alternative has already been opened on blahaj, this is a non issue, screw 'em. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
E: They have now made a non-apology post, in which they confirm my suspicion/conclusion that it was in fact the comments removed from the post I had made (because Ada prioritised marginalised people’s voices and needs, over those of the self-proclaimed “allies” who came to tell us what bad marginalised people we are for “alienating” them by also prioritising ourselves and our needs) that caused this move.
Classy.
This
We understand that a lot of respect and trust was lost, and we expect it’ll take a lot of work and a lot of time before we can earn it back, but we would be grateful if y’all gave us that chance.
and
Having another team take over splits the community. The more fragmentation there is, the less longevity and volume of community each skew will have.
Did give me a good laugh though. I’d say in case they hadn’t noticed, the community has already moved on, but I suspect that it is precisely because the community has moved on that they even bothered to make that post and pretend like they’ve learned something from this.
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Lmfao, wow, the Musk defence, impressive… 😂
Any evidence to back your wild claims, or…?
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Any evidence to back your wild claims, or…?
So that’s a no then.
Shocking 😂
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Hey look you were confronted with evidence
Lol, where?
The mod logs of some user you don’t like don’t prove anything lmfao
Cope harder.
How long until they’re posting here saying unfair moderation? lol
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What have those links got to do with Ada exactly?
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Wait, you think Davel—known prominent Lemmy user and tankie who, in the links you posted, has had comments removed for transphobia—is Ada? What are you smoking?
As I’m seeing a lot of worry about the impact this will/could have on the community, please be assured we have the same mod team,
I’ll be sure to avoid them!
PTB. Mod didn’t communicate with any of the users, then moved to the most universally problematic instance that’s not ML-associated. Awesome. Fucking stupid.
I will he blocking the new community and everyone else should too.
I think Midwest.social holds that distinction by far, at least in terms of severity, although Lemmy.World definitely is controversial (especially lately) that’s for sure.
I don’t keep up with Lemmy drama.
What’s up with Midwest social?
There needs to be a one-pager because every week there seems to be a new one.
They think Ohio is Midwest.
Ohio is midwest. It’s definitely not “east.” Nebraska and the like are great plains.
Pasting here from a previous reply I made:
Yeah there was a comment "someone please kill [this person]”, which upon being reported got the reporter banned rather than the poster. And another incident where someone got booted for downvoting a post by the admin. It doesn’t sound like a place that I’d enjoy being on. So I gave up on communities located there and support rather alternatives to them elsewhere. Be a part of the change that we want to see in the world and all of that…
Edit: but importantly, atm the issues seem related solely to the admins, unlike e.g. lemmy.ml and lemmyfrad.ml and hexbear.net where a good fraction of the users seem to have gotten used to speaking inside that echo chamber and then when they venture outside of it are quite contentious (tbf many of them are self-admittedly alts of Hexbear or LG accounts, though it remains that since the Lemmy.ml admins do nothing to stop the situation by removing the trolling comments made by their users, hence the task of dealing with all the toxicity falls onto others across the Fediverse to take matters into their own hands. Anyway this situation does not seem to apply to Midwest.social.)
For somw reason, feddit.org links don’t seem to open on browsers, could you somehow share a different link?
(And thunder on android somehow has a hard time opening links from other instances)
This worked indeed! Still not very sure why feddit.org links are problematic (if you want, try it on a browser on “private” mode)
Works in private mode for me 😄
i believe .ml WAS an intended migration point before this was randomly announced. i honestly would’ve been more on board with that! it’s still a bad idea, don’t get it twisted, but at least i might be using the new comm if it had happened that way.
I’m pretty sure .ml wasn’t the intended target (although I must admit that I wasn’t that involved in picking it)
i’d be frustrated about using .ml because my instance, along with many others, defederates it. it would mean having to make a new account, which is really inconvenient.
but there are literally hundreds of other instances to migrate to. and we picked the one that’s already overcrowded and full of power issues.
this is all without addressing the obvious subtext: moss just doesn’t want to work under ada, who has a strong anti-harassment and trans-friendly moderation policy. that’s fine, but it doesn’t give them the right to lock the original blåhaj community. just leave the instance and start your own, more transphobic space. 😒
Also, for a long time wasn’t the headline of 196 “fuck tankies” it just seems like .ml is a bad fit for the community.
you’re right, just bad ideas all around. :c
well hey, in the meantime at least things are starting to pop off over at onehundredninetysix!
Bbbut it’s a safe space and drama free /s
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Wait so this is all over neo pronouns?
No, the mods think ada is too strict with moderation by enforcing instance rules on the community.
Seems more like they didn’t like Ada actually removing what they the mods ignored.
So all about being transphobic in general
Why would they move from blaahaj to .world? That doesn’t do any good for the Fediverse…
“lack of local moderators” seems to sum it up. the mods just didnt want to use blahaj accounts
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Especially since lots of instances defed world and their rules aren’t as inclusive or protective as Blåhaj.
Because blaahaj isn’t bootlicker enough for them?
Maybe because of the whole “respect all user-specified-pronouns no matter how ridiculous they are” instance rule that was added a few weeks ago?
Nah, we’re respecting neopronouns.
I never said they shouldn’t. Just asking if that controversy could part of the reason for the move.
To put this another way, does respecting “dragonfucker’s” requested pronouns of “drag” and “drag” do more good or more harm for the community?
Given that Dragon is almost certainly doing what they do to sow discord, and refer to themselves in the third person to sound even more ridiculous, I think it does more harm than good.
If using neopronouns didn’t get a reaction out of people, they wouldn’t do it.
Respecting all pronouns is the best way to deal with trolls.
No one wants to be a flasher in a nudist colony.
No one wants to be a flasher in a nudist colony
I’m stealing this for the future
I’m still lecturing family on respecting she/her. Trying to sell neopronouns would undermine that effort.
Yeah, I think it makes it more difficult to achieve mainstream tolerance and acceptance. I respect those who think differently, but I do think neopronouns do harm to those who prefer she/her or he/him or they/them.
I’m a trans man and nobody has ever hurt me by using neopronouns. The people who have harassed and assaulted me almost certainly feel the same way about people with neopronouns as they do about me. People who use neopronouns are my siblings, and if someone needs me to throw them under the bus to respect me or my pronouns then frankly they are also part of the problem.
Tl;dr, there’s a reason that people you can’t get on board with using she/her don’t set the standard for what a real pronoun is.
To put this another way, does respecting “dragonfucker’s” requested pronouns of “drag” and “drag” do more good or more harm for the community?
Pronouns are not negotiable. Considering that pronouns are “deserved” is an easy path to limit their use to other conditions.
Drag is known to be a troll, and should be banned for trolling when relevant. That doesn’t have much to do with pronouns, those are two separate matters.
For clarity are you suggesting that some pronouns shouldn’t be respected based on the judgement of the mods?
Only a few hours in, and this kind of statements are coming in.
For clarity, I don’t think we should be hostile and jump down each other’s throats for expressing a slightly different opinion from each other.
Is expressing my opinion about something jumping down your throat? Which part do you feel I need to phrase more politely?
Like, legitimately, I’m not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings here. You also know from my other reply that I’m trans and my comment comes from that background. If I’m not allowed to even say that I found something borderline transphobic without it being too combative or whatever, then to me that’s not a great sign.
Is “drag” a pronoun? Either way, my personal stance doesn’t have much bearing on the argument.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173
To quote Ada:
I’ve been waiting until after Christmas day to make this post, but some of our communities recently have had a lot of noise and upset over someone that uses neopronouns that most people are unfamiliar with.
So I want to make this clear. A persons pronouns are to be respected. This is true when the user is using neopronouns that you’re unfamiliar with. It’s true even if you think someone is trolling. Pronouns are not rewards for good behaviour. They aren’t only to be respected when you like the person you’re interacting with, or if their pronouns “make sense” to you. Trolls, spammers, twitter users, it doesn’t matter who they are, your options are to respect their pronouns, or to not engage with them.
I really want to re-iterate the importance of this. Gender diverse folk are undermined, invalidated and questioned at every step of our lives. As a community, we need to be working to undo that, not creating more of it, and that means there is no space for treating pronouns (including neopronouns) as a reward for good behaviour.
This isn’t a free reign for trolls and spammers. The rules still apply. Trolling, spamming, etc will continue to be dealt with, but it’s not an excuse to act as if respecting someones pronouns is optional.
The added emphasis in bold is mine to make clear how easy it is to avoid this.
It’s not uncommon for people to ask to be referred to as their name instead of a pronoun. This just seems like that type of request to me. You’ll sometimes see “none” in forms requesting pronouns and this is something that would fall in that category
If someone uses it as one, yeah it is.
Your personal stance, being that you are a community team member of LW, has a lot to do with it. That’s who I’m asking, not you the person.
I don’t have an official position on it. Am I allowed to participate here as a person?
You and LW are allowed to do whatever you want, you just shouldn’t be surprised when making borderline transphobic statements and refusing to clarify reflects badly on the instance.
Use an alt account?
You’re a part of the community team of LW. Of course your stance have a bearing.
We must always respect pronouns.
I make no argument either way. Not my monkeys, not my circus. All I know is that people were being banned just for pointing out why they didnt like the rule and it caused a lot of controversy.
196 mods were working on doing this even before that, but that was actually not the first time that Ada had to make an announcement post about that exact policy. I saw it first come up in Blahaj Meta many months ago in the events that eventually led to me taking a mod position at LibertyHub
I got to say the real cringe is that such a decision took months for their mods and they had to discuss with admins of both sites. Just move the community and be done with it. I hate mods acting like they have some huge job especially on lemmy when the mod log is slow and barren.
lol, according to the admin of blahai, they didn’t even talk to her: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/12466657
That’s even more hilarious and cringe.
Ada gets a super bad rep by people who haven’t read anything from them directly. I love how in this response some of that is explained as in inheriting the drama caused by others that Ada had to go in and clean up after.
I respect Ada all the more now as a result of their words here.
Yeah she does a great job! She uses she/her btw <3
Oh, thanks for telling me!
Do you happen to know why she doesn’t include it in her profile? I am just curious is all.
And yeah I’ve never seen anything from her that I disagree with - which is actually quite remarkable. She is one of the people I respect most across the entire Fediverse.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot that she doesn’t have them in her name or profile here on lemmy. She does on matrix. Unsure why she has pronouns in her name on the matrix and not here.
Oh, perhaps that’s it - simply not filling it out in every space possible, so ofc I don’t think to check all the other spaces.:-)
Yeah the 196 mods saying they had beef with Ada doesn’t make me think 196 needed to move, it makes me think they need to learn to listen better. Ada isn’t perfect, but they’re consistently calm headed and even handed. Lemmy.world’s admin team on the other hand is…
Look.
The 196 mods are telling us more about themselves than anyone else right now.
Right? If Ada was banning on vibes, be ready to get that Lemmy.world banning because of a bad roll of the dice.
Ada’s post and comments regarding neopronouns is a classic: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173
But Ada says they had been talking about it in that comment. They let her know they were thinking about migrating, and Ada supported their decision. Then someone from the 196 mod team let her know when they were working out things with LW. 196 mods did drop the announcement without giving Ada a head’s up, which is definitely bad, but by that point she knew the migration was being organized.
Comment I replied to:
had to discuss with admins of both sites.
In her comment:
I was told that you were thinking about moving to another instance. I offered my support if you decided to stay or to leave. And that was the last I heard of it, until one of your mods (possibly you if I remember correctly) told the community you were organising something with lemmy.world, and I had to hear that second hand. And then, when things were finalised and the decision to move was locked in, once more, I heard about it second hand, after your team made a public post, because no one from 196 could be bothered to tell me before posting.
I wouldn’t call this discussion.
Hi there, It’s me, the “power trippin’” mod. If anyone has any questions raised by this post, feel free to ask me and I’ll do my best to answer.
Why didn’t you just notify the users of the move ahead of the time?
Hey, yeah I had a question that was raised in the announcement thread but never got answered. What are your thoughts on the Beehaw and other users who cannot see posts in LW being locked out of 196 thanks to the move?
Why was it so important to lock down the blahaj community?
unlock the original Community. This ain’t a question but do it anyway.
I’m not that familiar with the community other than seeing it often on c/all, but I’m pretty curious on what your expectations were in terms of community reaction. Did no one on the team predict that that people would be angry if you did this without consulting them?
Sincerely, I hope the move to .world works out well for you, if only because I really don’t want you to be wandering back over in a few months and picking up moderating the LBZ 196 again. You’ve proved yourself completely untrustworthy to moderate a community in my eyes and it would seem in the eyes of many other people. Good job
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Why don’t you unlock !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone and let Blahaj admins deal with the selection of a new mod team?
That does not prevent you from managing !196@lemmy.world
well originally the goal was just to seamlessly transfer things over to lemmy.world, posts and all. over the last few months we tested a couple possibilities with altering databases or using the bot api, but was decided that it wasn’t a feasible option.
what we then intended to do was migrate the community, and leave the previous one up as an archive.
seeing the reception that this decision has garnered, I think that we will leave it locked for a period of time so the people know where the community they are familiar with went.
after that point, there is a decision to be made.You planned this shit for months and never once asked us if we wanted to move? This is exactly why you’re finding your stunt posted to this community.
I think that we will leave it locked for a period of time so the people know where the community they are familiar with went.
think that we will leave it locked for a period of time so the people know where the community they are familiar with went.
It went nowhere, you just locked it without asking the community first.
the only person I would hand over control to is Ada
Then why not do this?
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I think that we will leave it locked for a period of time so the people know where the community they are familiar with went.
exactly where it was, on blahaj?
hey i’ve got .world blocked and do not plan to unblock it just because y’all made a hilariously hasty decision. when the man-or-bear thing happened, a frankly stupid amount of folks from there specifically were REALLY VOCAL about their outright misogyny. my experience has been a lot better since.
this was a silly thing to do, and i really don’t see how it aligns with the community’s interests.
Please unlock the Blahaj 196 comm and hand me moderatorship there. I get you have ideological differences but you don’t get to uproot an entire community over personal concerns.
I for one will not be joining the new one. This is an awful decision.
I’m sorry, but no. the only person I would hand over control to is Ada. despite her policy being cited as a reason for our transition, she’s an effective and consistent admin.
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone Any chance you could hand over !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone to me or other mods?
If this goes through and the original community stays locked this is going to be a huge blow to the trans and queer community on Lemmy. :(
I’m not going to forcefully hijack 196, but if the community creates an alternative, I’m happy to let people know about it
!onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone for people reading this
I don’t think hijack is the right word. You hijack something when you seize control to subvert it’s original purpose. In this case, you’d be seizing control to return it to its original purpose. This feels more like an anti-mutiny, where the leader goes rogue and the crew refuses to go with them.
Removed by mod
Irrelevant. Seizing control is a part of hijacking, not the entire thing. You also have to be subverting its purpose, such as changing a vehicle’s destination or making a radio station play a different message. Unlocking the community would make it do what it was doing before, which is not subverting its purpose.
If a ship is headed to New York, but a gang of pirates decides to take it to Barbados instead, that’s a hijacking. If the captain goes rogue and makes the ship go to Barbados on their own, but the crew revolt and force the ship to go to New York like it was supposed to, that’s anti-mutiny, not hijacking.
Isn’t it that you’re not going to prevent the community being forcefully hijacked?
It seems like they were never consulted or on board with the move.
How long do you intend to allow a mod team that’s (as of yesterday) deeply unpopular with their own community hold control over it and keep it locked down against the userbase’s wishes?
Idk, would you maybe be willing to transfer control from the old mod team once the drama’s died down a bit and they’re no longer likely to perceive it as some sort of personal attack, or is this a more permanent decision?
I am not going to take a community off of people who haven’t broken any instance rules. Mods need to have confidence that the communities they run aren’t going to be arbitrarily taken away from them because of an issue with an instance admin.
Unless I have the go-ahead from the staff, or unless they go dark long term and can’t be contacted, I won’t take it from them.
But, I did create a new post in the old community pointing people at a community made alternative, because I am also not going to force people to move.
I think going forward it would be wise to have a rule that communities need to be actively moderated at some minimum interval by an account on the community’s home instance, or else face closure or the institution of new moderation. Sitting on an unused community is like owning unused private property. “I don’t want this, but I don’t want you to have it either.”
Thanks for the answer. I appreciate what you do.
Mods need to have confidence that the communities they run aren’t going to be arbitrarily taken away from them because of an issue with an instance admin.
Respectfully, that’s not what’d happen in such a scenario. You wouldn’t really be taking the community away from the moderators: it wants to stay where it is and they willingly abandoned it of their own accord. You have every right to hand control back to the community (some members have already volunteered to take on moderator duties) and at this point, at least from what I can tell, you’d have the goodwill of pretty much everyone on the threadiverse who’s even somewhat invested in the whole situation on your side. I can’t even see what justification the existing mod team could have for holding it against you, but then, I’m not privy to what’s happened behind closed doors here.
Unless I have the go-ahead from the staff, or unless they go dark long term and can’t be contacted, I won’t take it from them.
I take it that means either that you haven’t actually asked, then, or that a response has not been forthcoming. I suppose the latter would hardly be surprising. Every time the question as to why the existing comm needed to be locked down has been levelled at them by community members, the silence from the mod team has been deafening.
All that being said, you seem to have made up your mind as to how you’re dealing with this and I accept that.
Seems reasonable
seconded, spujb is one of the best of us.
spujb is good people.
If the move had nothing to do with pronouns and you’ll continue to enforce rules about neopronouns, how do you feel about one of the LW community team mods making statements like this about them? Do you feel confident that they will always let you enforce neopronoun rules if they decide that it’s hurting LW?
I’m not sure, where’s the power tripping?
It sounds like a well coordinated transition between servers.
Locking up the community on they’re way out may have been well coordinated, but it isn’t well received.
It feels a lot more like capitalism than community: Listen up, I own the deed to this community and my property rights are supreme.
I guess I joined lemmy just in time for all the chisme 🫖☕
Edit: a word
Welcome!
Well coordinated, except for the fact that the community itself seems to hate the idea.
I saw a comment who was like “this is the most Reddit thing I’ve ever seen on Lemmy, and that says a lot”
Removed by mod
It’s not, most of the users on !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone would prefer that community to stay open, wherever the mod team wants to go.
The comments in the pinned thread there are pretty unanimous.
I dunno, it seems like an inevitable move to me tbh. Ada’s moderation has never coexisted comfortably with the 196 community. Remember when blajah started welcoming in an influx of tankies because of “inclusivity”? 196 is an explicitly anti-tankie community, so that never sat well with them.
Tankies defederated Blahaj later on IIRC
True, but damage was done I guess.
By that logic the last LW decision should also discourage people to move there https://lemmy.world/post/24135976
It did, along with other controversial decisions prior to it.:-)
Which makes this decision all the more odd. In the OOP, the mods explain how they are basing this off of having communicated with LW admins directly and received assurances of support that they can moderate as they please.
Which seems to me to be directly in contradiction to the announcement but… I’m just saying what I saw in the OOP. They seem to think that they will be treated specially - and who knows, perhaps they will be, or more likely they seem to agree with LW’s latest policy shifts, i.e. lesser severity moderation that allows more to be said and removes far less overall.
[…] There’s a small handful of self-selected moderators who are very transparently looking to push their particular narrative. And they don’t want to allow discussion. They want to function as propaganda and an incubator. Our goal is to allow a few pinholes of light into the Truman show they wish to create. When those users’ pinholes are systematically shut down, we as admins can directly fix the issue.
That policy seems more targeted towards censorious tankie mods than any other group, although they didn’t say so out loud.
Edit: Also looks like they are revising it yet again lol.
Also looks like they are revising it yet again lol.
Indeed
