- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemmy.ml
- russia@lemmy.ml
- russia@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemmy.ml
- russia@lemmy.ml
- russia@lemmygrad.ml
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/26711871
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are we really surprised
This is the most condesending comment section I’ve seen in a while
Bougies gonna bouge
I’m going to take this an opportunity to not only remind everybody about the “critical” part of “critical support”, which should be limited to Russia’s anti-imperialist actions, but also as a warning.
If the US with Trump manages to somehow align with Russia, that country could play a significant role in a new reorganized imperialist camp. There’s no ideological barriers for this inside of Russia itself, only pragmatic ones such as how that might impact its relationship with China (unlikely since China is hands off outside its territory) or whether a future Democrat might ruin that alliance. Other than that, we could very possibly see a future soon where Russia becomes an US imperial ally against the imperial periphery. If NATO-Russia relations ever normalise, all critical support for them will need to be re-evaluated.
This will also be a moment to test whether theories of imperialism can apply to China depending on their complicity with any such alliance.
Thank you.
The great fear we should all have is Trump somehow manages a rapprochement with Russia, a team-up in as you say a new imperialist order, bringing Russia into the club while shoving Europe out to arm’s length. Putin may not wish to allow this but he’s old and if he doesn’t die in the coming years anyways he could be pushed aside.
Should that happen and a few more things along with it that see to China’s encirclement and isolation, it is one of those big things that could lead to the defeat of socialism and locking in of barbarism in a post-climate-change world.
And one of the reasons I am not willing to say the US is cooked or fucked just yet. This is an ace they could yet pull out and the Russian bourgeoisie might let them have it for a mere equal partnership and dividing or profits.
Securing Russia’s cooperation would be enough to enable totally isolating China from the world economy and turning the screws on them. They’d have the island chains, first and second to contain them via sea. They’d have hostile India to the west, instability carefully engineered for decades in west Asia/middle east to disrupt the belt and road with a big assist from their colonial outpost “isn’treal” which despite all our hopes is riding pretty high on success lately with Iran meaningfully weakened, more weak in regional power, friends, influence than they have been in decades. If they lock down Russia as well China has no real routes to ship and receive goods to and from Africa, to and from Europe, etc.
IF the capitalists have them in that position they can fuck their proletariat and their consumer economies by hard decoupling because it won’t matter, because they’ll just exploit their workers at home harder, they’ll ‘friendshore’ to India and some back to the US and perhaps a more desperate and weakened EU that’s gutted all its social welfare. Things won’t be as good, quality will be down, there will be various problems, increased costs but a lot of this can be passed onto consumers and there may yet be no serious falling rate of profit consequences worse than those they were already bearing.
China has a very dangerous path ahead. I really hope Russia doesn’t join with the west. I hope honestly at this point that deranged anti-Russia democrats get back into power in 4 years and ruin any and all progress but given how the bourgeoisie are lining up behind Trump and this shift I have my doubts that they’re not all in on this.
This will also be a moment to test whether theories of imperialism can apply to China depending on their complicity with any such alliance.
This is however absurd. China is not imperialist, they will not willingly be imperialist. They are trying their hardest to free the world of imperialism and they will not be invited to any speculative US-Russia imperialism club or offered a seat there as there are no extra profits to be shared by the western capitalists who are desperate at this point because of the falling rates of profit and collapsing neo-colonialism.
That is pretty much it, and it’s ironic that the Democrats antagonising Putin at every turn (see Bernie Sanders calling him a “murderer” in every speech) might benefit the world by preventing that alliance. I think at this point we shouldn’t stake all our hopes on China for international revolution.
This is however absurd. China is not imperialist, they will not willingly be imperialist. They are trying their hardest to free the world of imperialism and they will not be invited to any speculative US-Russia imperialism club or offered a seat there as there are no extra profits to be shared by the western capitalists who are desperate at this point because of the falling rates of profit and collapsing neo-colonialism.
I wouldn’t argue that China is imperialist in character right now, though its economy certainly benefits to a certain extent from the North-South divide and the dependent capitalist economies of peripheral countries. Its bourgeoisie also engages in capital exportation and financialization for hyper-exploited sectors, for example in ride-sharing apps or soybean farming. But it’s not imperialist in character simply because its state apparatus does not enforce this dependency by any means and it respects foreign nations when they intervene in their own economies.
But in case these shifting alliances ever create the occasional alignments where Russia and the US enforce conditions for Chinese bourgeois profipts with no intervention from the Party, I believe it would be fair to see China as complicit in imperialism. Though I already don’t think the Russia alignment is likely, this one is more a worry than anything.
Honestly this makes me genuinely depressed to think about if they succeed. Is there no hope for us, if at every single time humans try to overthrow capitalism, the imperialist powers crush us?
Even if Russia and Amerikkka were to align for a mutual imperialist project, the working class keeps getting shafted with violent laws that make workers lose access to healthcare, education, unemployment benefits, housing, employment, etc. on a daily basis. Even if these nations stave off recession, workers are getting screwed over and only the bourgeoisie benefit. Even if fascism comes first, we’re still facing multiple crises like climate change, multiple crises that will still radicalize workers, but we have to organize. We can’t depend on China to save us. We can’t just sit and wait for world socialism to take over this settler nation. We can’t just hope for the fall of Amerikkka on its own. Even if it does fall, we need to organize to bring upon a vanguard party that will give us an alternative to revolt and replace the warlords in power. Join PSL, FRSO, or start or join a local ML-favorable organization to help those around you. Help the immigrants, trans, lgbt, minorities, poor workers, disabled folk, and other marginalized people. Just get up and rage on. (And if you are already doing so,) Don’t lose hope, but don’t let hope leave you complacent and distract you from bringing change to your community. Helping workers keep their head above water eventually helps the working class gain political power.
If the US with Trump manages to somehow align with Russia
I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but I have a hard time seeing the point in Russia doing this, even from a cynical purely self-interest way of thinking. Making peace deals is one thing, under the right conditions, but this whole campaign of an unnecessary war has been the fault of NATO and the western empire creating a problem and forcing an issue on Russia’s borders, effectively warring with Russia by proxy. Not only that, the Trumpian faction is uniquely despised even within the US by the liberal camp and there’s a lot of lingering red scare hatred of Russia and newer hatred of Russia from propaganda relating to the issue with Ukraine. So normalizing relations would look like… what exactly? I know Russia isn’t exactly a bastion of socialism at this point, but they gotta have some self respect that pretending the western empire wouldn’t try to screw them this time is beyond absurd.
Given Trump has indicated he wants to leave NATO, I think it would be possible to have ties with the US but not Europe. That would mean on the US side easing sanctions and backing off on conflicts against Russia itself and supporting capital exportation in the former soviet states, and on the Russian side providing (military, ideological) cover and support for US interventions abroad in Latin America and Africa, specifically backing away from supporting Venezuela, Cuba, AES or Iran.
Though I agree that Russia would never be on the same level of blind loyalty and financial integration as Europe, and that most collaboration would be transactional in nature. I don’t think Putin himself would want this given the past 20 years, but if he leaves office another leader also backed by the national bourgeoisie could provide this sea change.
Putin, United Russia, were always reactionary, how is this so surprising? He is not a communist, he hates communism. The only thing he has in common with communists is being against Nato and Amerikkka (and the anti-lgbt-laws if you count CPRF).
just look at what medvedev said about stalin etc
that is why people said “critical support” not “100% full support of every action”
… and is not even “anti-america”. If the USA would have gave him a place in “occident” they will be now putting tanks in China borders… thankfuly USA arrogance played a different card… EDIT: typo and capitals ;)
Man Benny gets around doesn’t he?
Ya’ll please calm the heck down. There are long-running reasons for this invitation.
Before the collapse of the USSR, it had a sizable Jewish minority. The USSR saved many Jews from the Nazis, and most ended up living in the USSR.
After the collapse, that minority immigrated to Israel and make up about 15% of the Israeli population. Many have dual Russian-Israeli passports. 1 in 4 staff members in Israeli universities are native Russian speakers.[1]
These Russian Jews act both as a potent fifth column promoting Zionism in Russia, and facilitate useful political connections between Israel and Russia. For example, Israel has been rather quiet about Russia’s operations in Ukraine. In return, Russia doesn’t say much about Israel’s genocide in Palestine.
Because of these circumstances, Russia doesn’t readily oppose Israel. When Russia works with Iran, Russia explicitly says that they cannot involve themselves in an Israel-Iran conflict. The most Russia can do without pissing off their Jewish fifth column is to weaken American influence and hope that makes Israel less insane.
In 2024, Israel officially recognized Victory Day as a holiday, and is one of the only non post-Soviet countries to do so. It makes sense that Russia would return the gesture by inviting them to the Victory Day Parade in 2025. [2] Israel previously attended the 2018 parade at Russia’s invitation.
Russia haa also invited China, India, Brazil, Slovakia, Serbia, and Mahmoud Abbas from the Palestinian Authority.
I don’t like this Russian invitation either, but it makes sense from Russia’s history with Jews. It certainly has better reasons than how much America buddies up with Israel. Russia actually protected Jews in WWII, while America just lies about their pro-Jewish history.
TLDR: Zionists fuck up the relations with Israel of any country they worm their way inside, and Russia is no exception.
I also want to note they seem to be using this victory day event to have a summit of some kind. Inviting the US and China specifically to have a talk. If thats the case it does kind of make sense to have the US’s rabid dog in attendance too.
If i had to guess this victory day thing is an attempt from the Russians/Chinese/other cooler heads to try and avert the incoming WW3 and reason with Israel, and the US a bit. Try and get them to chill the fuck out. I dont think it will work, but cant really blame them for trying to avoid a world war.
You bring up a great point. Russia has invited the BRIC members of BRICS alongside Eastern Europe and Israel. It would make sense for them to talk.
Brazil has scheduled the next BRICS summit for July 2025, which is bad timing. What can you do in only half a year? Pepe Escobar says their excuse is that they need to prepare for COP 30, but it is more likely that Brazil’s pro-West capitalist faction still dislikes the BRICS and forced Lula’s hand. [1]
Faced with such Brazilian unreliability, it sure would make sense to meet up somewhere earlier. Victory Day is on May 9, which is perfect for pre-planning, especially if BRICS needs to accelerate some projects to have stuff to present in July.
GOD FUCKING DAMMIT!
Just flee to Cyprus
Nah, I’m good.
I mostly agree with Comprehensive49, it’s just hella frustrating from the inside.
disappointing, but not surprising
Please let it be no surprise that Russia isn’t a great country either
Reminder that Russia tried to join NATO in the late 90s (under Putin as a PM too). Russia is currently an anti-imperialist power because of circumstance, not out of principle.
While I hate Russia inviting Israel ( if it’s true) I think it makes more sense when you view it as one “great power” schmoozing with another one.
what do u mean wtf, did u think that just because their goals of stopping the american empire aligned with ours they were “good guys”, the Russian government has always had a very close relationship with israel, and has always been very supportive of it.
And they were funding the Assad regime in Syria that killed millions
Who killed millions, the assad regime or the criminal blockade enforced by the US and lackeys?
I know when people are disingenuos when they completely avoid talking about economic blockades endured by these “comically evil regimes”.
Oh sorrry, stopping ISIS’s rampage and terror against minorities in Syria is so evil. Russia should just have just sat back and allowed ISIS to do whatever they wanted, nay, they should have supported it. Stopping ISIS, so evil!
When did the Assad regime help the “minorities”? They were literally arresting and killing innocent people who protested.
Meanwhile the current rulers killed people for no reason. Shia? Head off, Yazidi? Head off. Alevi? Head off. Kurd? You guessed it, head off. Isn’treal? Can’t kowtow to it any harder.
Fuck off with this anti-Yazidi shit. Even putting your accusations on the same level as the active genocidal actions that ISIS took undermines the horrors that the Yazidis have endured. Honestly, you and every other ISIS sympathizer can go fuck yourselves.
Do you ever think before commenting? I never said I support the “current government.” I’m talking about the people. I do not and never support ISIS, Assad regime or whatever.
People take things out of context and start throwing things.
You said you support the people yet you don’t mention the criminal sanctions enforced by the US and lackeys on the people of Syria, you literally don’t care lmao.
You inherently did, you try and deflect to critiques of Assad in order to downplay ISIS crimes against humanity against the Yazidi people. You are doing that to try and distract from the crimes that ISIS commits and downplay the role that Assad played in protecting people from ISIS. Attacking Assad is defending terrorists.
You mean the Assad regime that was part of the literal resistance Axis against Israel?
You mean the Assad government that specifically asked for Russia’s help
Yeah. Assad run to Russia right after the regime collapsed.
Well. I’m not surprised, I’ve never been that supportive of Russia, but seeing this… makes me more disappointed,
thats a celebration for the day russia killed hitler
*Soviet Union
The USSR consisted of multiple republics, todays Russia (not to be mistake for the Russian Empire, very different borders) was just the largest member republic.
still licking the boot and trying to appease the empire
