• hmonkey
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    1 day ago

    He’s still not conservative. He just perceives that the progressive label has changed so quickly that he no longer applies it to himself

    Edit: That’s quite an echo chamber you guys got here. Would be a shame if any outside opinions found their way in

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      2 days ago

      It never applied to him in the first place. It was always a ruse. If you look at his politics before he ran for Senate, he was always conservative. And very pro-Israel.

      • hmonkey
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        2 days ago

        How did it never apply? Palestine isn’t exactly progressive, so the fact that progressives support it is actually one of the ways the label doesn’t fit him anymore

        • ceenote@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          They must be like me to earn the right to live.

          That’s not progressivism you’re thinking of.

          • hmonkey
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            2 days ago

            Is that a direct quote?

            • Signtist@lemm.ee
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              2 days ago

              It might as well be. Why else would you use the fact that Palestine isn’t progressive itself to question why progressives support it? Progressives believe that people have a right to live regardless of their beliefs. It’s only actions taken that can invalidate that right, which is why we support Palestine and not Israel; beliefs have nothing to do with it - one is massacring the other, and that’s unacceptable.

              • hmonkey
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                2 days ago

                I highly doubt he sees it that way, in fact this is also something that has poisoned discourse lately. How is your first assumption that he wants innocent people to die? Like seriously, everyone needs to stop making assumptions like that… it’s so extremely unlikely he actually feels that way.

                Maybe he’s just a bit surprised at the left wing support for a state that hates Jews, women, and gay people. And a state that in large part does endorse the deaths of innocent people and would if they only could. Israel on the other hand wouldn’t be doing much right now if they weren’t bombed

                • Signtist@lemm.ee
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                  2 days ago

                  Well, no, he doesn’t see it that way - he’s not progressive. He’s just a guy who said he was to get elected, and now he’s showing his true colors. As for Israel, the country that only exists because it stole land from the people who were there already, would be doing just fine if the people whose land it stole just moved on, yes, but that’s not going to happen, nor should it.

                  Some Palestinians use their beliefs to fuel their hatred, and you don’t need me to tell you that’s bad, but only those who actually let those beliefs lead to unwarranted actions of violence are to be condemned, not the people as a whole. The same goes for Israel - only those who take unwarranted action against Palestine are to be condemned. You can and should disagree with the parts of anyone’s beliefs that go against basic human decency, but that alone doesn’t invalidate their right to live.

                  You act like this started because of a recent bombing and not because of the suppression of an innocent group people over the course of nearly a century. It’s the quintessential bullshit milquetoast excuse of “If you fight back against a bully, you’re just as bad.” The US is an example of what happens when the invaders simply kill all of the original occupants to claim the land for themselves - you’ll have a tough time finding a progressive who thinks that ended up being a happy outcome.

      • hmonkey
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        2 days ago

        It’s just his perception, there are interviews where he explains it and I have no interest in speaking further on his behalf

    • Breezy@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Its funny how republicans can send false agents into the left’s sphere of influence so easily. It’s hard for the left to do the same because who wants to act like a republican. 🤮