• Deadend [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      “In culture war crap, we tend to align! Yeah it’s for different reasons! I’m only for or against something because the people I hate decided it’s a new front!”

      I swear they just do Ukraine support out of a culture war thing because 2016 elections, Russia and Trump.

      • The_Walkening [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Abandoning the idea that Russia buying a relatively miniscule amount of ads on social media/running bot farms swayed the 2016 election would mean that liberals would have to confront the idea that Trump won in 2016 b/c the country is actually more racist than they thought it was.

        • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          They’d have to blame the electoral college more than anything. Clinton received 3 million more votes and still lost. Liberals are servants to rules and procedures even to their own detriment.

    • aleph@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      … because this time the US is backing Ukraine against the aggressor, whereas in 2004 it was the aggressor?

      • Owl [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Russia is the aggressor in this war, and it’s bad that they invaded.

        Russia invaded Ukraine in response to continued US policy of bringing countries near Russia’s borders into NATO, a military treaty organization that Russia had tried to join but was barred from. Not acting would mean that Russia becomes increasingly encircled by military bases of a hostile superpower.

        The Ukrainians are the victims in a proxy war between two much larger powers. For the average Ukrainian, sooner the war is over, the better. Somehow repelling the invasion would be ideal, but every day of fighting destroys lives and homes.

        US policy in response to the invasion is to send military hardware to Ukraine, enriching its arms manufacturers and prolonging the conflict. They make the Ukrainian government pay for this by forcing the privatization of their government assets at bargain prices (note how this website exists and is fully translated to English). The actual fighting is still done by Ukrainians, who die for this.

        • Rod_Blagojevic [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Not acting would mean that Russia becomes increasingly encircled by military bases of a hostile superpower.

          It’s a semantic point, but I think it’s a stretch to call Russia the aggressor. Especially so if you remember the intensified bombings of civilian areas in eastern Ukraine, which really appeared like an attempt to provoke a Russian intervention.

      • emizeko [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        so when Victoria Nuland picked Ukraine’s new government after instigating a coup and they killed ~16,000 civilians people in Donbas between 2014 and 2022 those were friendly, non-aggressive artillery shells?

        • aleph@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          So you’re saying that Russia didn’t invade Ukraine first, before the separatist-controlled areas were shelled?

            • aleph@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Oh, so you’re saying that Russia illegally annexing Crimea in 2014 wasn’t an invasion of Ukraine?

              • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                You can always tell who the most ignorant libs are when they bring up Crimea lmao

                Crimea is not Ukrainian, it has always been a distinct cultural ethnic region and 97% of Crimeans voting for independence from Kiev should give you pause before you breathlessly insist they should remain beholden to a bunch of nazi banderites

                • aleph@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  Crimeans wanting independence means they wanted to become part of the Russian empire again?

                  • Tachanka [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    the Russian federation is a reactionary bourgeois state that is a hollowed out shell of its former USSR self, but I dislike the hyperbole that it is “the Russian Empire”. Russia Today is neither the Russian empire, nor the Soviet Union. If anything it is closer politically to what it would have been if the February revolution had continued and the October revolution never happened: A bourgeois state.