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Maybe both are bad?
“Facebook should be under incredibly strict regulation or killed outright” is also a position I’m fond of.
Can someone explain why the author is censored in this screenshot? Isn’t it public already?
Well, the TikTok lawyers kinda said the quiet part out loud during their SCOTUS brief:
Mr. Francisco contended that the government in a free country “has no valid interest in preventing foreign propaganda” and cannot constitutionally try to keep Americans from being “persuaded by Chinese misinformation.” That is targeting the content of speech, which the First Amendment does not permit, he said.
It’s not a great look for your app when your argument before the Supreme Court is “yeah, we’re a propaganda machine for a hostile foreign power, but free speech says you can’t stop us. Neener neener.”
They are assholes, sure… but are they wrong?
that’s not what they’re saying, they’re saying even if they were chinese propaganda, it would be protected under the first amendment for americans to read what they want and make their own decisions….
but, nice 4th grader logic you got there.
See, “I’m not gonna smack you across the face, but I totally could if I wanted to and you can’t do shit about it” might not be the best way to clear your reputation as a bully.
unrelated but ok
Just something to think about when it comes to the influence social media has on society
TikTok has already transformed how Americans communicate, influencing language and behavior in ways that may have broader implications. The Chinese government, known for using censorship and language control to maintain social order and suppress dissent, leverages euphemistic language as a tool for manipulating public opinion and silencing critical discourse.
Phrases like “unalive” for suicide or “grape” for rape dilute the meaning and impact of language, making it easier for powerful entities to control narratives and obscure uncomfortable truths. This process, known as “language laundering” or “semantic bleaching,” strips words of their emotional weight and original meaning, making it harder to address sensitive or urgent issues effectively.
This trend has extended beyond language to visuals, with people obscuring letters or censoring words in pictures and posts—using terms like “s**cide” or “r*pe.” While this may help users navigate algorithms designed to suppress certain keywords, it completely erodes the clarity and impact of critical conversations.
The normalization of this behavior on TikTok has permeated Facebook, Reddit, Instagram, and other social media platforms, spreading a culture of diluted language and indirect communication. These practices hinder meaningful discourse, desensitize users to serious issues, and ultimately make it more challenging to engage with sensitive topics in a direct and effective manner. Recognizing and resisting this shift is essential to preserving the integrity of public discussions and fostering authentic engagement.
$5 says Elon or Meta buy TT and turn it into yet another GOP echo chamber.
You seem to think that it is for sale, Byte Dance has repeatedly said they will not sell. I also belive the PRC passed a law that would outlaw exporting the algorithom to the new owner
It doesn’t have to be our biggest problem for us to want to fix it. We can fix other problems as they come.
Also, server location. If TikTok reorganized in the USA it wouldn’t be banned, they know that and still chose to go under.
Tiktok is owned by Oracle in the US and has servers in Virgina and California.
Lmao
I mean, if that’s the question you want answered…
X uses a native browser controller when you open a link, so the app can’t see what you do in there.
Whereas TikTok uses a managed webview… which they have been caught injecting keyloggers into.
Back in the olden days, we called this a cross-site scripting attack.
Seems like meta were trying something similar with thier replacing all links in Facebook messenger with thier fbrpc://facebook/nativethirdparty?app_id Links, but seems like they gave up on it because it was all broken.
Yup. They’re all dangerous monsters.
IMO, it doesn’t even matter who’s worse, cuz they’re all bad enough they should all be subject to aggressive regulation with the goal of establishing safe interop off-ramps for people to stop using the services or at least use more trustworthy clients.
In my estimation, TikTok is worse, but that’s not even what the ban is about. It’s because China is spying instead of the US. That’s not a reason to defend TikTok though, or to oppose the government’s decision — cuz they were accidentally right, for the wrong reason.
That’s where I’m at. If in an alternate universe Congress did something like banning the distribution of harvested data, even just to foreign entities, and TikTok then refused to comply, then I’d be fully in support with them getting banned for it.
Here in the real world though, Congress apparently doesn’t have the balls to pass blanket privacy rights like that, because you see, that’d catch some of the wrong fish. I think it says a lot about the state of modern social media that all they were willing to go after TikTok for was something as nebulous as “national security risk”.
Because he paid for his influence while China is not. They are “stealing data” they have not paid for and are competing with the NSA/FBI/CIA without sharing.
America bad ooga booga. Really they both should be banned lol. Like yall slinging shit at each other when they both should be gone. Great use of energy Lemmy
They are both security risks. The difference is the SA oligarch has already successfully infiltrated our national security and installed himself in a position of power so we can’t do anything about it anymore.
Honestly the way he did it was pretty perfect. Create technology and weapons and R&D for the country you want to infiltrate, ingratiate yourself to it’s people, government, and military. Then start throwing money into politics to buy yourself a spot on the cabinet.
This is a game any bad state actor with a huge wad of cash can play thanks to Citizen’s United.
Create
I think you mean buy. Fund is probably the most generous word you could use, but that’s a fat stretch.
Musk created SpaceX, he didn’t buy it.
He founded Space X, but he did not create the technology and do the R&D alone like Tony Stark. He got the funding though.
Who ever claimed he created the technology? That makes no sense at all. And SpaceX got funding from NASA, just like a lot of other aerospace companies. In terms of value they delivered for that money, they’re far ahead of the competition. Boeing got more money for Starliner than SpaceX got for Crew Dragon. And look how that turned out.
Who ever claimed he created the technology?
The initial comment in this thread:
Honestly the way he did it was pretty perfect. Create technology and weapons and R&D for the country you want to infiltrate, ingratiate yourself to it’s people, government, and military. Then start throwing money into politics to buy yourself a spot on the cabinet.
This is what was being responded to.
Original comment…
Create technology
On the cabinet? He bought himself a shadow presidency.
This was never about national security. It’s about money. Most of congress owns Meta stock and meta lobbied the fuck out of trying to get the app banned. It’s extremely annoying that people buy this crap about national security.
Ask yourself when in the history of our country did 85% of congress agree on something? 85% of these fuckwads agreed that banning this app is more important than literally anything else. Stopping school shooting, fixing our economy, providing affordable healthcare or housing, are all not important.
Ask yourself when in the history of our country did 85% of congress agree on something?
Patriot Act and other government spying laws of course.
They are all problematic. My disagreement with the removal of TikTok is that it should not stop with TikTok. Meta’s apps are an absolute nightmare. Google, Xitter, Amazon, etc., they all need to be curbed when it comes to data collection.
Data brokering needs to be made illegal or VERY tightly regulated.
they all need to be curbed when it comes to data collection.
The problem with TikTok isn’t data collection, though. The stated concern of the US government is that TikTok may be used to inflict foreign influence (ie, Woke Mind Virus Communism).
That is, incidentally, why the flood of users to RedNote has been so funny. TikTok’s got a bunch of edgy western Zoomers doing “Did You Know Capitalism Is Bad Sometimes?” infographics in between dances. RedNote is just straight up “China Is The Best Country In The World” nature channel style hagiography.
The US pushed millions of Americans out of the frying pan and directly into the fire.
I don’t understand. Twitter was definitely used for that and Musk was “paying” to have people vote republican in Pennsylvania.
Meta paid like 800 million for the Cambridge Analytica scandal.
So like, if they sold to a US company then they’d get wrist slapped too?
Those aren’t foreign but also why a lot of those sites are blocked in china
Yes, the ban of TikTok has been more about lip service than actual protections for Americans.
The real solution is passing a comprehensive law that fines/bans any app/platform that is opaque about its influence from governments and its data sharing with governments. But who in Congress today has any appetite for real solutions!
I had written about this to my reps and their response was a non response - TikTok bad.
Of note, there is no evidence the government concern is founded.
Fell for one of the classic blunders
sniff’s glove
Ivermectin. I’d bet my life on it.
Tiktok aren’t giving Trump loads of money
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. The CEO has a prominent seat at Trump’s inauguration.
Yep. Which means TikTok gave Thumper a load of dough and TikTok will be allowed to continue operating here. Zuck is probably not happy since he’d also given him a load of dough to get rid of TikTok.
pops corn
Trump made saving TikTok a campaign promise.
That’s not relevant to the argument about how they could be dangerous for national security.
A fatal mistake for companies who want to do business in the US
It’s the Democrats pushing the TikTok ban, Trump loves TikTok.
Edit: Trump originally was the big driver for banning TikTok yes, but since his election win saw a big swing in the younger vote that’s being attributed to TikTok his stance has switched and I’ll put money on the ban being dropped the instant he gets in.
Except when he wanted it banned during his first term and up until very, very recently when he flip flopped to loving it.
So you’re saying that he now currently loves it? That’s what I said!
Let’s compromise on it being bipartisan.
Trump started this whole thing.
He wanted to ban it until he thought it helped him with the youth. So no. You are incorrect.
So he hated it, and now he loves it, but that means he must still hate it? Make your mind up
Clearly that user has trouble keeping up with our multiple reality spacetime logic to forget stances Trump supposedly held concurrent with contradictory stances he supposedly holds currently as well as absurd stances he supposedly will hold in the infinite futures.
I find it funny that if TikTok was sold to an American it wouldn’t be a security risk anymore.
that was literally the whole fucking point.
is it me or did Lemmy fill up with the most oblivious users all of a sudden?
Is it me or is everyone ELSE a moron except somehow for specifically ME
speak of the devil and who should appear?
I don’t know about the devil, but some doomsday prepper edgelord keeps popping up.
hey look it’s that guy that I blocked forever ago that I unblocked just to laugh at.
I see you’re as popular as you ever were.
well enjoy being relegated back to my block list until I want to have a hearty chuckle.
You remember blocking me? 😍
I don’t think about you at all. Just happened upon a living stereotype and felt compelled to point it out.
Good luck with those neurosis and narcissism. So weird those traits only ever seem to affect the self proclaimed “best” IT stooges.
The point of forcing ownership to be American was to force TikTok to be sold to Musk or one of the other massive data harvesting jack offs.
that’s an awful big stretch. would have been a convenient delivery though.
I do believe that’s still a possibility though. just don’t think that was the intended goal of the legislation.
Reddit must be banning lots of people
They are, it’s all bots now
Eh? You do realize most people on Lemmy are not on TikTok.
We’re laughing at it all and enjoying the popcorn.
yeah…not from the threads I’ve been in.
I mean, I find the countdown to tiktok town hilarious, but there are some very angry Chinese propagandists on Lemmy.
Yeah, they’re on .ml and hexbear and lemmygrad.
Which is a ridiculous premise.
Exactly. I find it hilarious how some of these people conclude that China ONLY gets our data because of TikTok, when our own government and on soil companies sell and shares our data as long as the other (China even lmao) buy it from them. No issues as long as they get money, but if they don’t get the money, it’s “national security” risk.
It’s not the data they care about.
I know… it’s the things I’ve been trying to drum on about every time someone’s says it’s a “security” risk. No one cares though, because “TikTok” bad. :/
They would then be under US jurisdiction, that’s the issue with TikTok, the US can’t for them to comply with any laws, current or future.
No, the issue with Tik Tok is that the government can’t control it like it does Facebook, Twitter, etc.
There is nothing in China that can harm you as much as the American Government. No intention, no action, no belief will ever hurt you as much as America has.
They can’t control it because… It’s not located in the USA! Good job, you understood what I said!
Bullshit. Any country has jurisdiction over companies operating inside it’s borders. If what you say is true then we couldn’t even ban TikTok.
Who exactly do you expect them to sue if a website has no physical presence inside the US borders and it disobeys US laws? 🤔
The only thing they can truly do against TikTok is prevent people from downloading the app through official means and having ISPs blocking the website. Outside of that it could 100% continue operating and scraping user data to send it to China.
TikTok does have US offices and employees though.
And yeah if they’re blocked in the app stores, and by ISPs you’d have to side load it onto your phone and tunnel out with a VPN. 170 million Americans aren’t doing that. You’d be lucky to find 100,000 willing to do it.
And since even SCOTUS laughed at the espionage argument, we again need to bring up that China just buys the exact same data from Meta, Alphabet, and X. We aren’t securing anything.
Three companies that could easily be regulated to prevent them from selling that data to China, but wasn’t there political interference as well?
Anyway, they can just close their US office and then the US is shit out of luck unless they ban them (since that would be their only recourse at that point).
because then they’d be subject to all the bullshit the feds do and required to comply.
As in implementing back doors and reporting to the NSA/CIA/FBI/CBP/BATF/ETC?
Like what? What are American companies required to do to protect your privacy that TikTok doesn’t do because they are a Chinese company?
TikTok is not being banned to protect anyone’s privacy.
Fine, what national security obligations are US-based social media companies meeting that TikTok/ByteDance is not?
TikTok/bytedance are controlled by a rival country. US based companies can, of course, help our rivals too but there’s some degree of separation that makes it a bit harder to address/discover.
The PATRIOT act.
It’s not about what they aren’t doing. It’s something they are doing.
Serious answer: because it’s owned by a US citizen and is operated and HQ’d in the US, so the the US government has effectively full control over it and can monitor it.
That’s not a lot better from an end user privacy and security point. But is wayyyyyyyyyy better from a national security standpoint.
Same reason China wants it.
The US government has no more control over X than regulations permit. They have the exact same amount of control over TikTok operations inside the US.
Oh, sweet summer child…
Sweet summer nothing. Don’t mistake billionaires as patriots for any cause other than their own. They don’t care about the country and will only cooperate if forced or convenient. Which is the exact same level TikTok exists on.
Technically the two laws banning TikTok and any company which sends US Citizens data to an adversarial nation, both passed at the same time, say nothing of citizenship.
When the courts say TikTok has to divest from Chinese ownership, they don’t mean heritage. They mean owners and operators who literally live and work exclusively in China.
I thought Mister Musty didn’t have US citizenship
Despite allegedly being an illegal immigrant himself, he does have citizenship now.
He became a US citizen in 2002
Should be an invalid citizenship, he falsely stayed in the us under a student visa while he did business, and didn’t attend school
He should absolutely have his citizenship revoked and be deported because we have it on record that he knew he falsely stayed for his personal benefit.
I will cut less well off immigrants slack for not following the complex and difficult process, especially if they immigrated for asylum, but Musk did it because he could get away with it and deserves to be punished for it.
Why did you think that?
I just knew he wasn’t when he was with PayPal and never really paid much attention since.
