During negotiations with the DNC and the Harris campaign, we were repeatedly told by interlocutors that Harris couldn’t meet any of our basic requests (a policy shift from Biden, a Palestinian speaker at the DNC, a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel, or even a meeting with Michigan families who lost loved ones to Israeli bombs) because of AIPAC-aligned politicians like Fetterman, who might take to TV, rile up suburban white and Jewish voters, and fracture the party’s coalition in a swing state.
That political calculus alienated a key voting bloc, although likely not large enough to have shifted the ultimate election outcomes, that should be part of a durable Democratic majority. But few will ever be held accountable for that choice.
A Fetterman staffer condemning Uncommitted for not advocating for Palestinians ‘the right way’ is like an arsonist scolding the fire department for using the wrong hose.
I blame the voters who just flat out couldn’t be bothered. If they’d all showed and at least voted 3rd party on the president, at least the fascist wouldn’t have control of Congress.
I blame Dems for shitting on everything so hard that people made the choice to not show up.
Non-voters can’t fix what they’ve done, protest voters can’t change what’s happened. The Dems can absolutely still fix their party. There’s only one group who deserves our ire in this moment.
Imagine supporting genocide in order to win, but then losing anyway.
Everyone always loses with Drump. Always have, always will.
Ah yes, the DNC’s ”strategy”—alienate everybody who isn’t a suburban wine mom or AIPAC donor. Brilliant. Why bother with Michigan families mourning Israeli airstrikes when you can pander to Fetterman’s Fox News cosplay?
Harris couldn’t even fake it. No Palestinian speaker, no policy shift, no spine. Just the same ”don’t rock the boat” calculus that’s sinking their coalition faster than a lead balloon in Lake Michigan.
Here’s the kicker: they’ll blame voters for staying home instead of owning their cowardice. Meanwhile, Uncommitted gets torched for not advocating ”the right way”—as if there’s a polite way to demand basic humanity. Spoiler: there isn’t.
Democrats didn’t just lose—they fumbled their soul.
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Identity politics isn’t just a weakness; it’s the entire playbook now. They’ve traded actual principles for a checklist of performative gestures that alienate everyone outside their echo chamber. A Palestinian speaker wouldn’t have been a magic bullet, but it’s not about votes—it’s about showing some moral backbone. Instead, they doubled down on the same corporate-approved cowardice that makes them indistinguishable from their so-called opposition.
And let’s be real: the problem isn’t just Netanyahu or his leadership—it’s that the U.S. props up these regimes while pretending to be neutral. The Dems could’ve drawn a line in the sand, but nah, they’d rather clutch their pearls and blame voters for their own failures. It’s not strategy; it’s self-sabotage dressed as pragmatism.
Harris campaign: why aren’t you embracing our flavor of fascism, the flavor of warhawks like Cheney and genocide?
Fetterman won his nomination when his brain was still functioning. If you don’t like him, primary him. It would probably work.
The biggest group that stayed home after voting dem in 2020 were older white men/women and hispanic men
The protest votes were a non factor in comparison
The media blew this out of proportion to make leftists infight
“Leftists?” None of us are infighting as far as I know. Did you mean “Liberals?”
The leftist spectrum includes liberals, ultraliberals, and radicals. You are trying to redefine the word “leftist” to mean “radical” because the word “radical” sounds bad to many people. Radicals should just own the word “radical” but are too afraid too.
The very same problem occurs on the rightist spectrum of conservatives, archconservatives, and reactionaries. Reactionaries don’t want to be called that because it sounds bad so they always pretend to be “conservatives” even though there is a clear difference in the definitions.
Leftists are always infighting, but not about DNC ghouls
This post literally exists to make people mad at protesters who didn’t effect the election in any way now that the data is out and we can LOOK WHAT HAPPENED.
But that doesn’t matter here I guess, reality doesn’t matter when there’s straw men to seethe at
Liberals getting angry at leftist isn’t infighting, it’s just regular fighting.
Since the “leftist” spectrum includes liberals, ultraliberals, and radicals, yes it is “infighting” among leftist groups.
Leftists are anti-capitalist. Liberals support capitalism. Republicans and Democrats have more in common than liberals and leftists. Would you call a debate between trump and biden infighting?
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For the record, I’ve never seen anyone on Lemmy defend the DNC. We all know they screwed up. We also know that Trump is by far the greater evil.
I’m also angry that we now suffer the consequences and would have been delighted had Trump lost the election.
I have seen a lot of people blame “the voters” or people who didn’t vote or whatever, and that is often to a degree which implicitly absolves the DNC for their role in alternating them. Can’t really have it both ways.
I don’t really follow this logic. We can blame the DNC for several things: ignoring constituents, skipping primaries, etc. We can blame voters for letting Trump back into office.
I think this is consistent with the banal statement of two things can be wrong at the same time.
The problem is a lot of people on Lemmy focus on blaming the voters first and don’t really connect that issue with the DNC’s failures. A lot of voters didn’t come out to vote because of how bad Kamala and the DNC were in this election. So focusing on blaming voters is just focusing on the outcome rather than focusing on the actual cause of the issue. You can focus on both issues but if your solution is that voters are bad and need to be shamed rather then the DNC needs to improve they’re not gonna win any elections unless they get lucky again like they did in 2020 with covid and how unpopular Trump was then.
Generically, two things can be wrong at the same time, sure, but here the two things aren’t independent. If we “can blame the DNC for several things: ignoring constituents, skipping primaries, etc.” then we are saying that that is the cause of people not voting for them, which is how trump got reelected.
The two are related, but I don’t think they are interchangable. There are plenty of issues with the DNC. Voters are still responsible for making an educated decision.
I’m angry with both.
Just like on Reddit, they mostly shit on the voters, which is disgusting imo
From a pure political science perspective, if the Democrats were a real party they would either purge themselves of Zionists or purge themselves of anti-Zionists. This coalition is objectively impossible to sustain and will make them lose any time Israel is bombing.
if the Democrats were a real party they would either purge themselves of Zionists or purge themselves of anti-Zionists.
Nope. They should instead purge themselves of all identity politics to the maximum extent possible and focus on the real problem of wealth inequality, like Bernie Sanders says.
It is starting to come out that the Democrats blatantly censored voter concerns for the genocide during the campaign. And lied about them not existing.
A Harris organizer who worked on youth turnout said that senior campaign officials gave them an order: When they sent out mass volunteer or fundraising emails and people replied by asking about Gaza, they were told to mark it as “no response.” The result? They seldom ended up engaging with voters on that issue.
i wish this information did more good; since the democrats are doing their damnedest to ignore it while the media is pretending it never happened.
thank you for this incredible information
honestly disgusted by how meager and purely symbolic the demands made by the uncommitted movement were
as if getting every single thing on that list would have spared a single life
All they demanded was basically a lip service and they didn’t get even that
They had a foolish belief in the humanity of their oppressors. That being asked to look their victims in the face would give them pause.
they’ve victims of the american empire; whoemever they vote for is going to lead to the same ends.
They successfully got Biden to step down
But then they were stupid enoufht to replace him with another genocidal politician
never forget that it wasn’t a genocide that made the american public turn on biden, it was a bad tv performance.
No, it was genocide.
Yeah fuck those orphans and widows voting for what was objectively the lesser of two evils.
I wanted to murder their families instead of the red team. Now all I can do is sneer at them.
It is truly sad that the Democratic Party has become this incompetent.
The fact that their candidates can openly taunt their own supposed constituency about having only one alternative to their own candidacy should be more than enough to elucidate how the Democrat establishment sees itself.
–A candidate doesn’t need to be particularly competent to play the role of the controlled opposition.
Iron law of institutions. The entire point of the Democratic party is to fundraise and secure sinecure jobs for its members. Winning elections is a convenient side bonus. So they basically ran on Trump’s first term platform and full support of Israel, since it is more important than winning the election. That’s what the arms manufacturers, and other donors want.
So they basically ran on Trump’s first term platform
Nope. Harris was going to raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy. The exact opposite of Trump.
The entire point of the Democratic party is to fundraise and secure sinecure jobs for its members.
None of us who voted for Dems did that in order to do any f*cking personal favors for them. We voted that way to do favors for ourselves and the country. Wealthy politicians are going totally fine no matter who wins. Hillary Clinton benefited from Trump’s gigantic tax cuts for the rich, instead of having to endure her own 5 separate ways of raising taxes on the wealthy. Anybody who thought you were “punishing” Clinton by not voting for her was wrong. You were actually punishing yourself and everybody else like you.
I believe they are competent at doing exactly what they have been doing. The system is working to benefit some people. :-(
I don’t think it’s incompetence. After-all they have successful defended the corporate duopoly for at least 50 years, probably longer. Sure there are some upstarts, but the machinations of the party ensure those people never get to actually threaten the status quo. Plus they make good sound-bytes so that the democrats can talk about how they are “fighting,” in unspecific ways.
defended the corporate duopoly
Weird that the last 3 Dem presidents all raised taxes on the wealthy and/or corporations.
machinations of the party
The DNC is literally composed of the primary delegates elected by the voters every 4 years. So if you don’t like the “machinations”, all you have to do is convince enough voters to vote for progressive delegates.
I mean, it kinda has been for a while.
I wouldn’t think it’d take much to dunk on the current republican party.
Voting isn’t some bargain between a thousand voting groups and one candidate. Let’s break it down.
THERE ARE TWO CANDIDATES
YOU PICK THE BEST CANDIDATE
Note that ‘best’ isn’t ‘great’; nor is it ‘good’, ‘awesome’, etc. And, while there are more candidates, sometimes only two have a chance (Hi Ross Perot!). So it’s a binary choice. There has to be someone in office. You pick the least-worse one.
The unmentioned third option is “If you vote third party or don’t vote at all, you accept the consequences of a worst-case scenario”.
I’m really thinking America didn’t educate people on ‘this or that’.
Pro genocide comments like this don’t surprise me anymore. I urge you to post more like this during the upcoming elections to remind people what the Democratic Party and its base really are. Voters might be scared into voting for the Democrats again.
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THERE ARE TWO CANDIDATES
That’s not how democracy works…
Being restricted to two candidates is just like a one-party state with an extra choice for shits and giggles.
People vote with their conscience on whatever candidate they feel represents them. And it’s THEIR business.
Anything else is NOT democracy. Nobody is entitled to your vote. That’s the one power you have.
That’s not how democracy works…
It is unfortunately how the US democracy works. Nobody around today set this system up. We simply realized how it does and doesn’t work.
Being restricted to two candidates is just like a one-party state with an extra choice for shits and giggles.
Nope. Two parties is a huge improvement over one. Three is an improvement over 2, etc.
3 > 2 > 1
Wasn’t there like 6 parties?
No you can force a political party to abide by your wishes by showing you are willing to not vote for them.
What lesson can the Democratic party learn from this?
No you can force a political party to abide by your wishes by showing you are willing to not vote for them.
No you cannot. They don’t even know that you exist. The simple reality is that the one and only possibility for major progress is for Dems to win big and win often. When that happens, Dems will all be competing with each other to show themselves to be more progressive than the other guys.
No you see, they don’t want to hold politicians accountable. They’d rather bootlick while blaming individual voters for being stuck between a rock and hard place.
Instead of uniting against Trump, let’s fracture the left by yelling at each other for voting the wrong way! Even though that has never worked in the history of ever!
I wish these people could understand that blaming people for voting “wrong” is literally the opposite of democracy and just devolves into nothing ever getting better.
Like you shouldn’t have to do that, people make good choices when they have good options!!
Angsty, disaffected, adolescent me in the 1990’s believed that repeated rounds of “least-worst” would lead to, well, it’s here. He wasn’t proved wrong.
Voting isn’t some bargain between a thousand voting groups and one candidate.
That’s literally what it was intended to be. Political party conventions once were real, high-stakes meetings to hash out a platform that appealed to as many interests as possible.
The elections over champ, you can stop screeching the same thing over and over again. Unless you’re already gearing up to lose the next election too.
Sounds like US democracy with the US voting system is deeply flawed and the only moral action is to no longer engage with it. Otherwise you are expected to choose between different approaches to an ongoing genocide.
Personally I pull the lever in the trolley problem. Not pulling the lever definitely doesn’t equal washing one’s hands of the outcome.
Both tracks have the same people on them. The elections aren’t there to influence US policy, but to give it legitimacy. The capitalists and bureaucracy are what actually control government policy.
Oh I didn’t see this is lemmy.ml. You’re making a false equivalency sorry. Both parties are bad but one is clearly less bad by a mile.
Anyway I said what my personal preference is. I’m allowed to have an opinion on the trolley problem while also acknowledging it’s one of the most famous problems in philosophy precisely because so few people agree.
The DINOs failed to win the election, I still think they’d be less bad than this.
Both parties are bad but one is clearly less bad by a mile.
This is irrelevant and falls into great man theory. The US government has 23 million employees and is a massive sprawling system with its own dynamics. It reacts to world events based on these dynamics. The US government is not controlled by this or that party, or the elections. It is not designed for such democratic input since it was designed as a dictatorship of property owners. In its early days, this was quite literally explicit, but even to this day, the iron grip of the bourgeoise is maintained on government strategy.
I’m allowed to have an opinion on the trolley problem while also acknowledging it’s one of the most famous problems in philosophy precisely because so few people agree.
The trolley problem is garbage nonsense, and applies to basically no real world situations. The trolley problem is only famous because it’s easy to think about, not because it is philosophically sophisticated. In the real world, there are an monumental number of possible paths that can be taken, each with outcomes that cannot be exactly predicted in advance. The trolley problem only works in real life if you are basically God.
Aight well I don’t find any of that to be incompatible with my POV so 🤷♀️
I get it you don’t like harm reduction. Some of us do though why do you have a problem with that
To put it in computer science terms, you are mistakenly believing that your “greedy algorithm” of harm reducing (seeking the best option at this time step) will lead to the global optimum (the best possible outcome at the end).
“Harm reduction” is what got us to this place is why I have a problem with it. This is the inevitable result of lesser eviling your way through politics.
If you guys weren’t so gung ho on supporting the dems no matter what, and forced them to do some good for once, Trump wouldn’t have been elected the first time much less the second one.
The only reason the Democrats are willing to spill so much blood is because they know people like you will defend them.
You overestimate how much power you have in this situation. We don’t get to pull the lever. The choices given to us have been approved by the same people who are tying people to the tracks.
You are either tied up to the track or shoveling coal into the trolly’s furnace.
Cool that it’s the DNC’s fault. Sucks that anyone who was working towards Palestinian liberation now has to shift their attention to not getting jailed or deported.
I heard the organizers are expanding their strategy to other issues, like protesting capitalism by refusing to buy food or stopping an oil pipeline by refusing to drive to the blockade.
They were quoted as saying “These failures are already guaranteed to be someone else’s fault, and that’s the most important part.”
Ask the campus protestors arrested during the Biden administration about their felony charges and then tell me about how activists have to worry about being jailed now.
Cool that people making a principled stand to engage with a political party to encourage a change in policy are at fault for the leaders of that political party refusing to change policy, despite being told at multiple levels, for a multitude of reasons, including electorally, why that policy was bad.
Liberals hate democracy. Expecting to engage with a political party to affect change? Ew, just tick the box with a D next to it regardless of what they do or say. Don’t you know trying to engage with a party that doesn’t listen to its base or membership might lead to bad PR and might hurt them in an election? How could you be so inconsiderate? Your role is just to sit down and do nothing and accept whatever they say is true on MSNBC.
Way to stand up for Palestinians by letting an outright fascist make things even worse for Palestinians. I’m sure that’s gonna go great for people who love democracy as much as you, a person who could not check a box to protect trans rights, emergency services, vaccination, et very cetera.
What the fuck are you on?
The Israeli army intensively bombarded residential areas in Gaza when it lacked intelligence on the exact location of Hamas commanders hiding underground, and intentionally weaponized toxic byproducts of bombs to suffocate militants in their tunnels, an investigation by +972 Magazine and Local Call can reveal.
The investigation, based on conversations with 15 Israeli Military Intelligence and Shin Bet officers who have been involved in tunnel-targeting operations since October 7, exposes how this strategy aimed to compensate for the army’s inability to pinpoint targets in Hamas’ subterranean tunnel network. When targeting senior commanders in the group, the Israeli military authorized the killing of “triple-digit numbers” of Palestinian civilians as “collateral damage,” and maintained close real-time coordination with U.S. officials regarding the expected casualty figures.
Some of these strikes, which were the deadliest in the war and often used American bombs, are known to have killed Israeli hostages despite concerns raised ahead of time by military officers. Moreover, the lack of precise intelligence meant that in at least three major strikes, the army dropped several 2,000-pound bunker-buster bombs that killed scores of civilians — part of a strategy known as “tiling” — without succeeding in killing the intended target.
[…]
Israel’s efforts to maximize the chances of killing senior militants hiding underground also included attempts to crush parts of a tunnel network and trap the targets inside. Sources described incidents where vehicles fleeing an attack site were bombed without specific intelligence about who was inside, based on the assumption that a senior Hamas figure might be trying to escape.
“The entire region felt and heard the explosions,” Abdel Hadi Okal, a Palestinian journalist from Jabalia who witnessed several major Israeli bombing operations — which Palestinians often refer to as “fire belts” — during the early weeks of the war, told +972 and Local Call. “Entire residential blocks were targeted with heavy missiles, causing buildings to collapse and fall on top of each other. Ambulances and Civil Defense vehicles were unable to contend with the scale of the bombardment, so people had to use their hands and some light equipment to pull bodies from under the rubble of houses. There was no possibility for anyone to survive.”
https://www.972mag.com/tunnels-hamas-lethal-gas-bombs-gaza/
If you cared about Palestinians, you’d have supported the uncommitted movement a year ago. Instead, you’re here wasting everyones time lashing out at randoms on the internet because the Democrats campaign failed due to their own choices.
Did you even bother to look at the 100+ comments already in this thread, to realise you’re just the same as the other fucking morons who think random people on the internet criticising Democrats are the ones solely responsible for the Democrats losing the election? That it was their fault Democrats refused to move from endorsing genocide?
solely responsible
Strawman.
I am talking about a decision you made, as an individual - and which you still defend, here. What good was your principled stand? What on Earth was improved? What harm was minimized? Pounding the table about how bad things already were doesn’t change that they are now worse.
I am talking about a decision you made, as an individual
Jesus christ you’re a fucking moron. I’m not American. I can’t vote in US elections. I’m from the UK. I didn’t vote for Labour because they were also endorsing genocide. They still won the election.
What good was your principled stand? What on Earth was improved? What harm was minimized? Pounding the table about how bad things already were doesn’t change that they are now worse.
Why do you not ask those questions of Democratic party and its leadership, people who have actual power compared to random nobodies asked to tick a box once every 4 years?
What good was your principled stand (materially supporting and endorsing genocide)? What harm was minimised (murdering tens of thousands of Palestinians to defend Israel from consequences)? Pounding the table about how bads things are doesn’t change the way they keep getting worse (Democrats keep doubling down on genocide and being more racist, regardless of if they win or lose, and never change strategy).
Directed abuse over your own projected assumptions is not worth my time.
lmao like the projected assumptions I was from the US and voted in the election?
Again, did you think you were doing something that the 100+ comments in this thread hadn’t already litigated, fucking moron?
Sarcastic tone, but I was telling the truth there: It is the DNC’s fault. The policy and the defeat. And that fact is real cool for anyone who thinks that’s the important part.
I’m not mad about Uncommitted’s principles, and I don’t pin any moral blame on them. But I do think they have shitty tactics. This is a war. The RNC and DNC vs. us. If you have any chance to weaken your opponent, you take it. The Dems will never be your ally, so stop expecting them to.
Apologies, it came across as sarcastic but in the direction of defending DNC.
Trump won but you’re still arguing about Harris. Weird as fuck. Do you have anything relevant to say? Picking on the democrats is so last election.
I bet during the election you said “it’s to late to change anything, just vote democrat”
This is the magical time when we get to change things supposedly, so we will be having these discussions with or without you.
The Democrats in Washington failed us, and they won’t admit it or retire. So of course we are going to target them… Otherwise, they’ll try the same thing in 2 years and get the same result.
I’m afraid you don’t see any of the depth in politics. Different people have different goals, and we actually need to openly discuss their goals if we’re going to work together in the future.
Then have the Democrats shut up about voting Democrat whenever someone posts about Palestine. Democrats do not get to start a blame war and then pretend to be the victim
The democrats lost, the war is over, im australian but you americans had better get it together fast because your opposition is killing you. Stop arguing about the past and fight for the future. Seriously. The best i can hope for right now is that the USA goes so badly wrong that even your average bogan Aussie votes left. Kamala is such old news, focusing on her is a distraction that seems designed to let the broligarchy slide.
Before election
Stop fighting we need unity during the election!
After election
Stop fighting there is only 4 years until the next election!
Before election:
Fuck Kamala
After election:
Fuck Kamala
You got anything to say about what’s actually happening?
You got anything to say about what’s actually happening
Capitalism.
But, that is what is happening. The DNC seems to be learning the wrong lessons from their loss. I have no reason to believe they will do better in the future until they realize they are out of touch and need to stop blaming the voters.
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Its very confusibg that you go after the dnc
It’s really not. They’re one of the two parties in the two party system that our government is rigged to prop up.
Amazing it’s like you are literally unable to read my comment.
“Damn, you’re all still talking about that Hitler guy? That was decades ago!”
Who gives a fuck? Stop trying to sew division and relitigate an election that ended three months ago. Fuck the politics of division. The left needs unity now. Fuck the dividers.
What we need is electoral reform so more then two political parties can run for office with no spoiler effect.
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
And after the behavior of democrats in the last election and after, I no longer want to unify with them. Blue MAGA
Why should the left work with liberals, who propped up the genocide and refused to work with the Left?
The dividers are Democrats trying to blame their loss on people who refused to support their genocide.
They want to learn nothing from the election and have turned their propaganda to justify their loss into overdrive.
What does the paragraph right below the one with a red square around it say
It says that few of the people responsible for dividing the Democratic party will be held responsible.
The paragraph below that one explains how Democrats such as Fetterman are trying to shift the blame on groups alienated by the Democratic party.
I don’t understand all the focus on John Fetterman as somehow being representative of the Democratic party writ large. It’s blatant that his personality has changed since his stroke, and I’d wager he’s going to lose his next primary if he even tries to run again
Because Democrats have done nothing to pressure him into changing his position, and Democrats like Fetterman have absolutely been at the forefront of all the attempts to blame people who cared about Palestinians enough to try and get Democrats to change policy for their campaign and policy failures.
People who support genocidal democrats aren’t the left nor were they ever the left. They’re milquetoast liberals happy that at least trump is protecting their 401ks.
The left might need a unity, but the Democrats are not a part of that or any left.
Well good thing trump is president now eh? Right? RIGHT???
Edit:
I’m remembering now why I blocked the hexbear instance 😂
In your mind, what are acceptable ways to pressure a political party that is actively carrying out genocide?
What are acceptable ways to pressure Trump out of committing genocide and steer the Democrats into opposing Israel? Is that a better question? Because that’s where we are right now.
If the Democrats didn’t want this outcome then they should have run a better campaign. That’s the point of this. Harris was asked at one point how her policy towards Palestine would differ from Biden’s and her response was she couldn’t think of anything.
Not to mention Harris embraced the 2016 Trump border wall proposal and openly campaigned with the endorsement of Liz Cheney. Her most disgusting moment to me was when asked if trans people should have access to gender affirming care, in the context of individual states banning trans healthcare, her response was “I believe we should follow the law.”
Yeah great campaign. Truly a person who wanted to win
Goddamn, that question was, like, babytown frolics! Even I, as a non-career-politician, know the answer which stays true to your principles (insert worried Padme face) without giving the opposition a sound bite would have been, “I believe that all decisions about appropriate treatment should be left up to the doctor and patient.”
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Is this a bit? Nobody here is happy with Trump winning, but you are exemplifying the very reason the Democrats lost so badly. This sort of intellectual dishonesty and over reliance on thought terminating cliches makes everyone who gives a shit about the real world annoyed and off-put. This is the sort of bullshit that makes people happy to see the Democrats lose, regardless of who wins.
The truth is that Harris didn’t give a shit about winning. They would rather lose than do the right thing. The DNC doesn’t care about you or me, they actually have a tremendous amount of contempt for their voters. They would rather “win over” Republicans than do anything remotely helpful to working class people. They don’t want to bother lying that they are for universal healthcare. They don’t want to be in a position where they might have to expand access to abortion. They want to demand your vote in exchange for nothing. They probably won’t reverse anything Trump does in the next 4 years, because we saw for ourselves that they didn’t reverse most of his policies 4 years ago. Except for maybe the child tax credit, which increased childhood poverty by like 50%. The Democrats suck just as bad as Republicans because they are just representing another clique within the same class of billionaires, any “progressive” talk from them is and has always just been performative
Harris lost for many reasons but one glaring reason is the minefield of ding dong purity tests that yall obsess over that are the literal definition of “perfect being the enemy good” and now we all get to pay for it.
“ding don purity tests” like… not committing genocide… got it
edit: also wanted to point out that you served up two more thought-terminating cliches in your response… the democrats aren’t good, they are actually also doing bad things. They murdered something like half a million Palestinians— we all watched it happen— and then they told us, “who are you going to believe? me or your lying eyes?” … All of this was after they dramatically and intentionally created more childhood poverty in their own country. They aren’t “good” at all, they don’t want to be good. They want to serve their own faction of billionaires donors who have a vested interest in things not changing for the better at all.
Yall have failed the trolly problem. See ya at the camps cos I’m out.
“See you at the camps” just comes of as the threat a Nazi would make you sick fuck
You are already mistaken that you have any agency in the trolly problem. You also don’t even seem to understand what the choice was.
ding dong purity tests
This is you, talking about a genocide, one comment after accusing people of not commenting in good faith.
having people fail the party and not the other way around is unsustainable
wow critizing the dems eh? must be a trump supporter smh why do hexbears always post in bad faith?
quintessential bluemaga
I did reply in good faith. I’m serious that the Democrats ran a terrible campaign and their loss should be placed squarely at their feet. Biden and Harris failed you. But you wanna turn this around on me and call me a conservative or something? I’ve been a communist for 20 years. I’m queer, nonbinary, and probably on various FBI lists of people who show up at too many leftist orgs. Why would you ever suggest I’d be happy about Trump
You know who’s probably very happy that Trump won? Kamala Harris.
Lol well maybe you’ll start to learn something
What, about how my status as a citizen is under threat? When my partner and I get sent to a gay labor camp? Because yall couldn’t sniff out the bullshit?
Why yes you really should learn that. And you should act accordingly. The democrats are not going to save you. They’ll enable the violence against you. At best they’ll have camps for you with rainbow flags to show how they support you.
I hope we’re wrong about what is to come. You should find your local leftist org. Voting in democrats has led you and everyone else to this point.
The only people standing with you is us.
Here’s something about violence within foreign policy - if they’ll do it to brown people overseas, they’ll have no problem to a marginalized population within their own borders.
A political party who has no problem with genocide doesn’t care about you and they never will. Splitting hairs about lesser evils is what they count on.
look at what they said about the palestinian genocide and then look at what they did. Why would you believe them when they claim to be on your side after that?
Unironically yes, considering that after 15 months of Biden letting the war go on a ceasefire came when Trump took power.
If the Democrats were really passionate about winning, maybe they should have listened to their voter base for once, instead of alienating them. The Dems blame everybody but themselves for their loss and it’s disgusting.
Genuinely. At least so far, Trump is the lesser evil when it comes to Gaza. That could certainly change, he talks like he plans on changing that, but so far Biden did 15 months of genocide and Trump enforced a ceasefire on day 0
I’m sorry, but no, you do not have to hand it to 'em.
Trumps ceasefire is the same as Bidens. A temporary pause before Israel decides to resume it’s ethnic cleansing of Gaza and The West Bank. He will support them to the same or greater degree as Biden. Everyone he’s appointed directly refers to Israel controlling Gaza and the West Bank from now on, having just announced they want Palestinians to “voluntarily” leave.
Biden and the democrats can get fucked, but you don’t have to be a moron and double down on Trump being somehow better. He isn’t.
Trumps ceasefire is the same as Bidens.
There was no ceasefire under Biden though.
The ceasefire started before Trump took office, and regardless, both effectively mean the same thing when they refer to a ceasefire. A pause before they both continue to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
The ceasefire started before Trump took office
Lol. Come on now, don’t be deliberately obtuse.
both effectively mean the same thing when they refer to a ceasefire.
Ok. I don’t know how many times I have to tell Yanks that actions are more important than words.
Lol. Come on now, don’t be deliberately obtuse.
Referencing a fact is not being obtuse, nor is referencing Trumps lead negotiator, who literally directly credited Bidens team as “doing most of the work” on the ceasefire. Pretty much everyone has recognised it came out in the end as a joint effort, aside from Trump himself.
Ok. I don’t know how many times I have to tell Yanks that actions are more important than words.
I’m not a yank, and the actions are the multiple murders Israel has already committed of Palestinians in breach of the ceasefire, the fact that all of Trumps appointees are obscenely pro-Israel well beyond even Biden, that everyone involved is saying the aim is still to eliminate Hamas and the war is not going to end, and they are literally right now planning for a takeover of Gaza and the West Bank by Israel and the US.
Like what are you even arguing at this point? That Israel is genuinely going to stop ethnically cleansing Palestinians? That Trump cares to stop them? That his appointees care to stop them? Are you lost and confused and think I’m defending Biden on Israel?
You’re not wrong about the ceasefire being that, but it still is a result of Trump’s people.
a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel
Quoting @jordanlund@lemmy.world again:
Harris stated multiple times that she wanted a cease fire and a two state solution. Polar opposite of Trumps “sweep them out and take over.”
July:
August:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
September:
October:
Every month from becoming the nominee until the election: cease fire, hostage release, two state solution.
These are not genocidal statements.
Trump?
https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-israel-pr-hugh-hewitt-21faee332d95fec99652c112fbdcd35d
“But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”
She did, but you didn’t listen.
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Actions speak louder than words.
The only difference between the republicans and democrats, is that one is better at lying.
talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words and the biden administration only talked.
As ever, blueMAGA shitlibs care more about what politicians say than what they actually do. Because decorum is more important than the lives of hundreds of thousands of foreigners.
Didn’t the Biden administration vote against the two state solution at the UN after claiming to support it?
but but but the Russians and Chinese vetoed the usa ceasefire! (that was ceasefire in name only and usa had vetoed everyone put forward before and almost every after)
The White House routinely makes mutually exclusive statements about its desire to “end the war,” while saying Hamas could “have no role in postwar Gaza.” Yet no mainstream reporter, editor, or opinion writer bothers to reconcile this contradiction. This calculated vagueness is central to why Israel is permitted to continue bombing and killing at will for an indefinite amount of time. How can US officials simultaneously push for an “immediate, lasting ceasefire” while, at the same time, saying the other warring party must be completely defeated before they can support a lasting ceasefire?
This isn’t a call for a ceasefire—it’s a call for, in Netanyahu’s phrasing, “total victory.” The pairing of these two mutually exclusive phrases can only mean one thing: In common usage from the White House and its friendly media, “pushing for a ceasefire” means “continuing to bomb and besiege Gaza while reiterating terms of surrender.”
One linguistic trick that permitted this contradiction to go unchallenged is the sleight-of-hand in what the White House means by “ceasefire.” In some contexts, it means the term as it has been used by the Israelis, namely by Netanyahu: a temporary pause in fighting to facilitate hostage exchanges, followed by a continuation of the military campaign whose goal, ostensibly, is to “eliminate Hamas.” But this is explicitly not an effort to “end the war” as Netanyahu made clear repeatedly throughout the conflict.
The White House’s demand to “end the war,” increasingly popular since the summer of 2024, is just a reiteration of surrender terms. The State Department banned its staff from even using the word “ceasefire” for the first few months of the conflict. But in late February 2024, on the eve of a Michigan primary that was embarrassing then-candidate Biden, the White House, as we noted in The Nation at the time, pivoted to embracing the term. But the Biden administration changed its definition to mean (1) hostage negotiations, but with a firm commitment to continue the “war” once Israeli hostages were freed, and (2) a reiteration of surrender demands, sometimes using both definitions simultaneously.
The concepts of “ceasefire” and “push to the end the war” became, like the “peace process,” a ill-defined, open-ended process for process’s sake that US officials could point to in order to frame themselves not as participants in an brutal, largely one-sided siege and bombing campaign but a third party desperately trying—but perpetually failing—to achieve “peace.”
Several attendees at the November meeting — officials who help lead the State Department’s efforts to promote racial equity, religious freedom and other high-minded principles of democracy — said the United States’ international credibility had been severely damaged by Biden’s unstinting support of Israel. If there was ever a time to hold Israel accountable, one ambassador at the meeting told Tom Sullivan, the State Department’s counselor and a senior policy adviser to Blinken, it was now.
But the decision had already been made. Sullivan said the deadline would likely pass without action and Biden would continue sending shipments of bombs uninterrupted, according to two people who were in the meeting.
Those in the room deflated. “Don’t our law, policy and morals demand it?” an attendee told me later, reflecting on the decision to once again capitulate. “What is the rationale of this approach? There is no explanation they can articulate.”
Soon after, when the 30-day deadline was up, Blinken made it official and said that Israelis had begun implementing most of the steps he had laid out in his letter — all thanks to the pressure the U.S. had applied.
That choice was immediately called into question. On Nov. 14, a U.N. committee said that Israel’s methods in Gaza, including its use of starvation as a weapon, was “consistent with genocide.” Amnesty International went further and concluded a genocide was underway. The International Criminal Court also issued arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his former defense minister for the war crime of deliberately starving civilians, among other allegations. (The U.S. and Israeli governments have rejected the genocide determination as well as the warrants.)
Absolutely wild the apologia for Democrats doing genocide you guys will do to avoid holding Democratic politicians and campaigners to account for their own decisions on policy and how they campaign.
Her words are meaningless when her actions are genocide
I, too, hated when President Harris committed genocide. Oh wait
She promised to not change from Bidens policy. Biden’s policy was limply call for a ceasefire while providing more weaponry than was needed in the Korean war.
Harris, therefore, told us what actions she would actually take, being a critical part of the admin she promised to continue
She was VP. Hardly powerless like dem simps like to pretend.
So Harris said the same thing as Biden said… while Biden and Harris were complicit in genocide. And this changes anything about the post… How exactly?
Did Harris say no bombs? Did Harris draw red lines? Did Harris to concede any of the demands in the post you are trying to strawman?
stop moving the goalposts. The subject was a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel
It’s not moving goal posts. What she said isn’t credible because her own actions betray it. Politicians will say anything to get elected and LIE.
What control does the vice president have on spending by the military?
I eagerly await your comment.
Given Biden’s proven medical incompetence, likely total. ‘Biden’ provided funding to Israel without congressional approval multiple times.
Lmao, what a complete non answer.
It’s a complete answer, it’s not the one you tried to bait out, but it’s a complete answer and it’s correct. You can be mad at yourself for not laying a good enough trap to get what you want, or simply for trying to defend one of the worst human beings in one of the worst political parties in the world; but you can’t be mad at getting a correct answer.
Executive branch is the one that declares war. They could of put a stop to the arms policy but didn’t. Useless democrat simp, blaming voters instead of awful policy from politicians.
Trump made an equivalent call for peace, while promising he would not impede the flow of weapons, same as Harris.
No the statement was Harris distinguising herself from Biden. You have inserted a strawman.
Furthermore you are lying because Trump also promised empty words about peace for Palestinians. Trump even invited Palestinians on stage. Something Harris refused.
What? Look at the quoted tweet. It says
a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel
And you’re calling me a liar? Lol
I will concede that point. I read the first line about “policy shift from Biden”. Conveniently you did not address that
Even a distinguishment from Trump on Israel has not happened from Harris either.
Trump promised unconditional support for Israel. Harris promised unconditional support for Israel.
Now I will call you out on your statement. This article debunks your selective statement usage of Trump.
They have to get it done. Get it over with and get it over with fast because we have to — you have to get back to normalcy and peace.”
“I’m not sure that I’m loving the way they’re doing it, because you’ve got to have victory. You have to have a victory, and it’s taking a long time,” he said.
He said Israel is “absolutely losing the PR war” from the video coming out of Gaza.
“They’re releasing the most heinous, most horrible tapes of buildings falling down. And people are imagining there’s a lot of people in those buildings, or people in those buildings, and they don’t like it,” he said. “They’re losing the PR war. They’re losing it big. But they’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”
Nah, I’m out. You’re obviously not conversing in good faith.
You concede when you get called out on quoting out of context. Your bad faith is clear.
The fact that you read “she called for a two state solution” as anything but her endorsing genocide makes you appear to be a fucking moron.
This assessment of you is only reinforced by one of your links literally saying “She dodged the question on Palestinian deaths” in its URL
Of course I don’t really think you’re an idiot. I think you’re a nazi. You don’t give a flying fuck except for the fact that refusing to back down on this subject cost you the election. And because you’re nothing but a fucking nazi, you will literally say fucking anything. You will insist that the person who refused to budge an inch from Biden’s “zero conditions for unlimited support” position was actually the opposite. You’re only upset that people got upset at you. You are a nazi.
Are you lost?
She was calling for a ceasefire for at least 6 months. As VP.
And the money and the weapons kept flowing.
So you can see the problem .
